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Is Donald Trump a decent man?

Is Donald Trump a decent man?


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upsideguy

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This is a simple question that I hope will elicit a good discussion. Is Donald Trump a decent man?

The question is NOT an assessment of his professional life; whether he is a good president or a good businessman. This is a question of character: Is Donald Trump a good human being?

Now I realize that is vague, but that intentional. I do hope we get into a discussion of what is decency, what it means to be a decent man, what it means if he is not a decent human, and what it means on questions of his fitness for office. If you think he is not a decent man, could you vote for him as POTUS? If so, how do your defend that position?

So I ask, Is Donald Trump a decent man? If you answered, you are on the record. Please elaborate (and, as with any good debate, be prepared to support your position)
 
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Greenbeard

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Captain Adverse

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This is a simple question that I hope will elicit a good discussion. Is Donald Trump a decent man?

The question is NOT an assessment of his professional life; whether he is a good president or a good businessman. Just is he a good human being?

Now I realize that is vague, but that intentional. I do hope we get into a discussion of what is decency, what it means to be a decent man, what it means if he is not a decent human, and what it means on questions of his fitness for office. If you think he is not a decent man, could you vote for him as POTUS? If so, how do your defend that position?

So I ask, Is Donald Trump a decent man? If you answered, you are on the record. Please elaborate (and, as with any good debate, be prepared to support your position)

I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.
 

mrjurrs

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No, I'll stop at one reason. His family charitable foundation was shut down for a bunch of reasons. One was misusing funds meant for a children's cancer organization.
 

Forcefield

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.

Of course you are empowered to determine if someone is decent without actually meeting them. 40 years of public, captured on video comments. A history of documented behavior. Autobiographies. That should be plenty to make a determination.

If you are choosing not to determine whether or not Donald John Trump is a “decent person”, it’s not because you are being prudent. It’s because you want to support him as president without feeling conflicted. As a very much not Trump supporter, I cannot imagine how exhausting it must be to walk that moral tightrope. Good luck.
 

mrjurrs

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.

When someone says...'grab them by the *****' what the heck else do you need to hear?
 

post

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.

LOL.... you could have not replied, if it was entirely up to you.

.... I support his efforts as President.

He stole money from charity. (Trump Foundation).

He set up an organization to defraud people. (Trump University).

He lied, downplayed and has actively spread misinformation about the greatest health crises of our lifetimes and probably one of the most pivotal events of our lifetimes (Covid 19).

He tapped into the darkest parts of American populism by playing heavily into the racist birther conspiracy theory and spread stories like muslims celebrating on 9/11 in order to play to the white nationalist crowd.

This is like, 0.5% of all the terrible things he's said and done.

You support this kind of person, because the worse he gets, the more you love him.

No decent person says these things.

No decent person does these things.

Oh! And what "efforts" do you discern deserve that description?

Perhaps these "efforts".....?


[h=3]President Trump has made more than 20,000 false or ...[/h]www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2020/07/13 › pre...






13 Jul 2020 - In just 14 months, President Trump doubled the number of claims he made in ... But on July 9, just 440 days later, the president crossed the 20,000 ... The President's Falsehoods, Misleading Claims and Flat-Out Lies. ... Glenn Kessler has reported on domestic and foreign policy for more than three decades.,,,,


Or, perhaps this "effort"?

[h=3]wouldn't **** her with your dick - Urban Dictionary[/h]www.urbandictionary.com › define › term=wouldn't fu...






a girl so ugly or skanky that you wouldn't **** her with someone else's dick let alone your meat....

[h=3]DOJ Moves To Take Over Trump Defense In Defamation Suit ...[/h]www.npr.org › 2020/09/09 › justice-dept-intervenes-to-ta...




2 hours ago - E. Jean Carroll, who has accused the president of rape, is suing him for ... President Trump's remarks were made as part of his official duties.




 
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Rexedgar

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.


I cannot be bothered looking into your posting history, but I am pretty sure you have posted that you used to be New Yorker and you were pretty familiar with Trump’s public persona and in spite of that you counted yourself as on board with the man as president. Do I have you confused with another member?

I see the padlock guy approves.......
 

upsideguy

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.

Part of me says "good answer", part of me wants to call you a coward for ducking the question.

As I read your answer, I appreciated its thoughtfulness until you tried to compare this understanding the moral fabric of the POTUS with understanding the moral character of a DP poster, then I started to think "what a crock"...... There is far, far, far more about Trump in the public domain than there is about any poster on DP. Moreover, why would the moral character of a DP poster be of any concern of yours as we do not impact your life the way a POTUS does? You ask the POTUS to be the steward of the country you love. No such thing is asked of a DP poster. So your trivialize the question with your silly analogy. No, its not like adjudging the character of a DP poster.

As a fellow citizen, I expect you to take some responsibility to have well formulated an opinion on the character of a POTUS. Its my country too. Its fair for me to expect my fellow citizens to have a reasoned opinion as to the moral character of the guy we let be steward of our beloved country. To me, that seems to be an implied duty of a good citizen, to the point that I would say "...if you don't know, you best find out..."
 
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Jetboogieman

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.

He stole money from charity. (Trump Foundation).

He set up an organization to defraud people. (Trump University).

He lied, downplayed and has actively spread misinformation about the greatest health crises of our lifetimes and probably one of the most pivotal events of our lifetimes (Covid 19).

He tapped into the darkest parts of American populism by playing heavily into the racist birther conspiracy theory and spread stories like muslims celebrating on 9/11 in order to play to the white nationalist crowd.

This is like, 0.5% of all the terrible things he's said and done.

You support this kind of person, because the worse he gets, the more you love him.

No decent person says these things.

No decent person does these things.
 

Forcefield

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By any metric I can possibly think of, DJT Is not a decent person. Not in regards to the values I hope to instill in my children, not by how I want to live my life.

I can see making some kind of leeway for someone who lies a lot, or calls everyone idiots and losers, or files bankruptcy over and over, or runs a corrupt children’s charity, or fails to pay vendors, or sues people they don’t like to put them out of business, or has sex with a pornstar while their new wife was at home taking care of their new baby, or claims they have no reason to ever ask for forgiveness.

100% of those things happening during the course of one person’s life? That isn’t a decent person. To leave it to conjecture is to erase all meaning of the word “decent”.
 

noonereal

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i can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One i would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this forum was "a decent person," when all i'd have to go on is their debate politics online persona.

So if i don't really know a person, i don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, i support his efforts as president.

omfg

..
 

Rexedgar

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Even the Trumpers don’t have the fortitude to support their leader.......
 

upsideguy

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Is this question even serious?

Its a very serious question. I answered it "no", but I want to see if anyone can say "yes" and defend it.

What I think we are likely to see, and I have seen it already, Trump supporters ducking the question. If we see that, they should be called out on it.....

I also think that people need to look in the mirror and think about the question, including thinking about what it means to support a man without decency to be the steward of our democracy.

So, I not only think its a serious question, I think its powerful pre-election question. I am hoping this yields good discussion down-thread, particularly as it relates to fitness for office.

20 - not a decent man vs. 0 - decent man at this writing.

Even the Trumpers don’t have the fortitude to support their leader.......

Exactly.
 
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post

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Part of me says "good answer", part of me wants to call you a coward for ducking the question.

As I read your answer, I appreciated its thoughtfulness until you tried to compare this understanding the moral fabric of the POTUS with understanding the moral character of a DP poster, then I started to think "what a crock"...... There is far, far, far more about Trump in the public domain than there is about any poster on DP. Moreover, why would the moral character of a DP poster be of any concern of yours as we do not impact your life the way a POTUS does. You ask the POTUS to be the steward of the country you love. No such thing is asked of a DP poster. So your trivialize the question with your silly analogy. No, its not like adjudging the character of a DP poster.

As a fellow citizen, I expect you to take some responsibility to have well formulated an opinion on the character of a POTUS. Its my country too. Its fair for me to expect my fellow citizens to have a reasoned opinion as to the moral character of the guy we let be steward of our beloved country. To me, that seems to be an implied duty of a good citizen, to the point that I would say "...if you don't know, you best find out..."

Are Trump's 20,000+ lies and misleading statements or his opinion of his alleged sexual assault victim's attractiveness actually official duties, or is the term "efforts"
to be understood as including symbolic defecation upon the Constitution, especially upon the First amendement?

How many here would post in support of Trump's endorsement of torture and his criticism of the UCMJ if they were required to post under their actual first and last names? Are such acts, "efforts" or official or unofficial performances of Trump's duties? They seem much more compatible with intentional breaking of Trump's oath of office!
 

azgreg

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Nope. He's a ginormous piece of ****. When he finally dies the world will rejoice.
 

upsideguy

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Nope. He's a ginormous piece of ****. When he finally dies the world will rejoice.

Sad as it is, there is probably a lot of truth in the statement. The man is hated in much of the 1st world largely because the America that other countries had grown to respect and trust isn't so trustworthy these days.
 

Rexedgar

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Nope. He's a ginormous piece of ****. When he finally dies the world will rejoice.

I’ll wager that his resting place will require a French drain.....
 

Vadinho

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I can't answer that, because it is a "moral" evaluation. One I would have little to base it on except what is publicly portrayed via media sources and "historical records" both good and bad.

It would be like asking me if any member of this Forum was "a decent person," when all I'd have to go on is their Debate Politics online persona.

So if I don't really know a person, I don't feel empowered to make such assessments.

I will simply say that so far, regardless of his public strengths and weaknesses, I support his efforts as President.

I can't comprehend how anyone could possibly write this about Trump. It is like saying I can't say if Hitler was good or bad because I did not know him personally. I have no idea what people like you see in him but one day you may reflect upon this and feel shame and guilt. At least I hope so for the sake of you and your loved ones.
 

Captain Adverse

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Part of me says "good answer", part of me wants to call you a coward for ducking the question.

The fact you feel a desire to call me a "coward" when all you know of me IS my DP "persona," is a bit hypocritical in light of this following comment...

As I read your answer, I appreciated its thoughtfulness until you tried to compare this understanding the moral fabric of the POTUS with understanding the moral character of a DP poster, then I started to think "what a crock"......

I have "interacted" with quite a number of DP posters over the years. If I simply accepted their online comments as sufficient evidence to make a "moral" determination...most would not fare well.

However, I don't know them beyond their online personas, so I choose not to make moral assumptions about them in "real life." I am content to ignore them, or otherwise interact with them here, without judging them outside this environment.

There is far, far, far more about Trump in the public domain than there is about any poster on DP. Moreover, why would the moral character of a DP poster be of any concern of yours as we do not impact your life the way a POTUS does? You ask the POTUS to be the steward of the country you love. No such thing is asked of a DP poster. So your trivialize the question with your silly analogy. No, its not like adjudging the character of a DP poster.

Perhaps, but the vast majority of what is "in the public sphere" has to go through many filters. If the "reporters" are biased against a person, (and we know 90% of the MSM seems to be just that way) then why should I credit their portrayals?

Meanwhile, I know little to nothing about Trump the man...the one behind closed doors in family and friends encounters. Basically, I don't KNOW the man like I do people In regularly and personally interact with.

As a fellow citizen, I expect you to take some responsibility to have well formulated an opinion on the character of a POTUS. Its my country too. Its fair for me to expect my fellow citizens to have a reasoned opinion as to the moral character of the guy we let be steward of our beloved country. To me, that seems to be an implied duty of a good citizen, to the point that I would say "...if you don't know, you best find out..."

Don't tell me what I am or am not responsible for. I am the boss of me, not you.

I made my position about his leadership and Presidency in my post. THAT is my position and all I need to say. :coffeepap:
 

Forcefield

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I can't comprehend how anyone could possibly write this about Trump. It is like saying I can't say if Hitler was good or bad because I did not know him personally. I have no idea what people like you see in him but one day you may reflect upon this and feel shame and guilt. At least I hope so for the sake of you and your loved ones.

This was my first thought as well, though I wanted to refrain from using the "H" word since people tend to gloss over it.
 

2distracted

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That was then, this is now

And I could be wrong but I tend to think words and gestures are always less harmful than actions..u know, like the words of a trump tweet compared to the actions of an abortionist. Liberals whine about words but have no problem promoting the violence of abortion

Then there are the words of Trump

Compared to the words of the far left..I think specifically of the words of Ralph Northam when he advocated murdering children even when they are not in the womb!!

TRUMP 2020
 
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