Is Condi Rice A Failure as Sec. of State?

[26 X World Champs]

Champs.....you're a child.

I give her a grade B, its unfair to say she is doing a bad job. You have to remember, Bush makes all calls on foreign policy, not her. Condi is just a cabinet member(or, advisor, if you will), and looking at some of the interviews, a very sophisticated cabinent member at that. Only problem is.......Bush don't listen to advice from his cabinet.

Which makes her a failure...if she were successful she would be able to persuade Bush that he is wrong, that's her job, not to be an yes man.

 

[Mr.Clover]

So.....are you going to blame Condi, or Bush.

As I have said before, Condi doesn't get to make the rules, only apply them. And as of this moment, Bush is the one deciding everything on foreign policy.

 

[Mr.Clover]

Which makes her a failure...if she were successful she would be able to persuade Bush that he is wrong, that's her job, not to be an yes man.

No, that makes it Bush's fault, because one cannot persuade another if another doesn't want to be persuaded.

 

[DeeJayH]

So.....are you going to blame Condi, or Bush.

As I have said before, Condi doesn't get to make the rules, only apply them. And as of this moment, Bush is the one deciding everything on foreign policy.

you are wasting your time
Champs HATES all things to do with the Bush Admin
he is THE dem Partisan Hack and will never admit Bush or the Rep/Cons EVER did ANYTHING right
best thing to do is move on, anything else is wasted oxygen

 

[Mr.Clover]

best thing to do is move on, anything else is wasted oxygen

you mean, typing skills?

 

[26 X World Champs]

you are wasting your time
Champs HATES all things to do with the Bush Admin
he is THE Democrat Partisan Hack and will never admit Bush or the Rep/Cons EVER did ANYTHING right
best thing to do is move on, anything else is wasted oxygen

Thanks for the kind words my friend. Republicans have done lots of things right, not Bush but Republicans for sure.

Tell you what Deejay...why don't you name 5 diplomatic victories Rice has accomplished since becoming SOS?

The best Secs. of State have the ear of their boss and are able to influence them, not always, but sometimes and especially when it counts. Rice fails miserably by this measurement...and all measurements re her job performance...which is all I'm talking about.

She's a bright woman and loves football, but as a SOS she's terrible and her record proves that. To suggest that she is not responsible for her record as SOS seems ridiculous, doesn't it?

 

[DeeJayH]

She's a bright woman and loves football, but as a SOS she's terrible and her record proves that.

The best Secs. of State have the ear of their boss and are able to influence them, not always, but sometimes

i will debate you when you pick a side, otherwise i will enjoy your comedic side show
but atleast it seems you have gotten past
bush sucks
Bush admin sucks
rep/cons suck
so good for you

 

[jfuh]

Champs.....you're a child.

I give her a grade B, its unfair to say she is doing a bad job. You have to remember, Bush makes all calls on foreign policy, not her. Condi is just a cabinet member(or, advisor, if you will), and looking at some of the interviews, a very sophisticated cabinent member at that. Only problem is.......Bush don't listen to advice from his cabinet.

That's not an excuse. Powell made his points very clear. Point is she wants the power, she wants to be at the top, so she's gladly given up doing anything beneficial and just simply be the bitch of the administration.
Her, Rummy and Dick were all on the same side to go head in to Iraq, don't forget that. Powell was the only one in that administration to voice decent.

 

[jfuh]

I actually wrote a reply earlier tonight but it was swallowed up by the problem with the site we've had the last 24 hours.

Thank you for naming one thing she's done...but I think it's very minor and the type of accomplishment that was automatic rather than through real diplomacy.

Let's talk about what she's done in North Korea, Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Darfur etc.?

Have you read "State of Denial"? Woodward has several quotes from co-workers clearly stating that as National Security Advisor she was considered a dismal failure, ineffective and actually BAD at doing the actual job.

Now, as SOS America's diplomatic efforts have digressed since she took over for Colin Powell and the world is less safe and there's less diplomacy today than anytime in recent or perhaps in long term history.

Consider your point? Has there been any actual sanctions or joint actions that have prevented Iran from making nukes? Has there been any dialog between Rice and Iran, Syria or North Korea?

That's not the point, you asked for something, I gave you that something and it brought Iran into clearer focus for the world leaders that it is problematic. Doesn't matter that there's been little done since then. Which is why I gave her a D for being weak but far from incompetent.

She's a bright woman who has allowed her principles to be compromised as she serves Bush, same as what happened to Powell.

Powell resigned because of his principles. The administration was far too ideological and Powell was a realist.

Her legacy as SOS will be recorded as a dismal failure IMHO.

I doubt dismal failure, there have been worse SOS's.

 

[jfuh]

No, that makes it Bush's fault, because one cannot persuade another if another doesn't want to be persuaded.

Then she should do as Powell did, resign. Cause otherwise she's going to be the next Rummy - a scape goat.

 

[dragonslayer]

Here's my premise...Condi Rice is the Sec. of State and has fairly good approval ratings (compared to her boss at least). But think about it?

As America's #1 Diplomat how would you rate her? With whom has she had successful diplomatic results? Iraq? Palestine? Lebanon? Russia? North Korea? Syria? Iran? I for one cannot think of one diplomatic success since she became the SOS. Can you?

Consider Iraq. James Baker and the Iraq Study Group is formulating diplomatic suggestions, not Condi Rice. It is James Baker who is being touted as a Special Envoy to the Middle East to seek a diplomatic solution, not Condi Rice.

I think she's a total failure at her job. She doesn't come across as an independent voice like Powell did, she's simply Bush's bitch who parrots everything he says and at the end of the day, very unsuccessfully at that.

Here's my poll question:

Is Condi Rice a Failure as Secretary of State - Please Grade Her?

I am not sure what your expectations of Condi Rice are. She was made Sec of State under a the Presidency of Mad Man. I think that she has tried to sooth ruptures with other countries that bush has caused and has done an adequate job. I gave her a C, and I am liberal.

 

[Hatuey]

did you miss this?


this is what he clearly was refering to
your typical partisan hacksmanship
try again champs
or should i call you aquapub (i only use his name because of the utter contempt you have for him, for the 'same' reasons)

Wouldn't champ grading Condi's job and then giving his opinion on her and CurrentAffairs doing the same qualify as a debate? Remember political bias is optional if it's a debate yes?

 

[Caine]

I gave her a B, for those dominatrix boots she wore once, too sexy for a SOS!:lol:

Shall I vomit now or shall I vomit Later?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Then she should do as Powell did, resign. Cause otherwise she's going to be the next Rummy - a scape goat.

Actually, and sadly, according to STATE OF DENIAL Powell was fired by Bush in Nov. 2004. He wanted to stay on but Bush wanted him and Armitage gone.

If you've not read the Woodward book I strongly recommend it. It really provides you with an insight into the Bush Administration and it claries so clealry the dysfunction of said Administration, especially Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Rice. The book is written not in Woodward's voice but in the voice of the many sources he quotes, all from the very top of the government and almost all are questioning most if not all of the decision making by the Bushies.

 

[26 X World Champs]

i will debate you when you pick a side, otherwise i will enjoy your comedic side show
but atleast it seems you have gotten past
bush sucks
Bush admin sucks
rep/cons suck
so good for you

With all due respect you've written multiple posts in this thread that have been nothing more than attacks against me...while my posts have been completely centered on the topic. I've not yet read one post from you that is on topic?

I think my poll is very fair.

 

[Alastor]

I agree that the Secretary of State needs to be adept. I feel that Condi is not what I'd call "excellent" at her given role.

At the same time I understand and even agree with the point others made that she's been tasked with a rather impossible and precarious set of situations and expectations by a completely failed Presidency that at times seems dillusional and others just plain stupid.

Just as in sports, one is tainted by the team they're on. At the same time, I don't think she'd be headed for the Hall of Fame on any other team either.