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Iraqis Progress in Conditions for Troop Withdrawal, Official Says

Now, lets put this to rest. Neither of us are budging so arguing about it further is pointless..besides, I'm tired..it's 5:30 am and I haven't gone to bed.

Ta.
 
Look, its not unrealistic. In WW2 we were on several different fronts fighting for years and years all over the world. And somehow we sustained that, o and dont forget about ww1? We sustained that one as well. So you see my friend it is realistic and it can be done. If I am a do-gooder than I am sorry I am too good for you. I mean c'mon you are just against the war casue you dont like Bush. I mean you arent a independent casue you carry every argument and every charactaristic to be a liberal. You may register as an independent but you are hardcore liberal its all over your nonchalant excuses. I havent made 1 excuse just facts. Your collaborative nonsense is well nonsense. Please come up with a good argument that I havent heard yet.

The fact is simple you dont agree with the war cause you feel its coming out of your pocket and that upsets you. Which it really isnt. You just got money from the gov. Do you even know who the second largest economy is?

War isnt going to kill this country its this mental disorder known as liberalism that will do it. Infact if you know your history war is what made this country strong and great.

I will leave you with this before I go to bed.

America is great because it is good; When America ceases to be good it will also cease to be great.

Sorry for being such a do-gooder.
 
SKILMATIC said:
Look, its not unrealistic. In WW2 we were on several different fronts fighting for years and years all over the world. And somehow we sustained that, o and dont forget about ww1? We sustained that one as well. So you see my friend it is realistic and it can be done. If I am a do-gooder than I am sorry I am too good for you. I mean c'mon you are just against the war casue you dont like Bush. I mean you arent a independent casue you carry every argument and every charactaristic to be a liberal. You may register as an independent but you are hardcore liberal its all over your nonchalant excuses. I havent made 1 excuse just facts. Your collaborative nonsense is well nonsense. Please come up with a good argument that I havent heard yet.

The fact is simple you dont agree with the war cause you feel its coming out of your pocket and that upsets you. Which it really isnt. You just got money from the gov. Do you even know who the second largest economy is?

War isnt going to kill this country its this mental disorder known as liberalism that will do it. Infact if you know your history war is what made this country strong and great.

I will leave you with this before I go to bed.

America is great because it is good; When America ceases to be good it will also cease to be great.

Sorry for being such a do-gooder.
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*Sigh* I really do wish you would listen to me instead of giving your mistaken opion of why I disagree with this war. It's not because I hate Bush..I had no problem with him prior to his proposed marriage ammendment and the war...even still I don't hate him. The reasons I dont agree with the war: Every reason given by Bush has fallen through, there is absolutley 0 time table, there's no end in sight, the form of government was already determined for Iraq prior to the invasion without consulting any Iraqi citizens other than certain shady individuals like Chalabi, I don't believe democracy to be a good form of government especially in that region, too many lives have been lost and Bush still hasn't given a good reason why, I don't believe in picking fights with nations which pose no threat to my country, Iraq did not provide financial assistance or any other resources to Al Qaeda..in my opinion talking to someone isn't a crime..there was "no collaborative relationship" between the two as stated in the 9/11 commission report and by commissioners on national television, and it sends a bad message to the rest of the world : If you think someone might attack you in the distant future it's ok to go to war and occupy said country even eithout conclusive and hard evidence.
War could kill this country. We're losing allies and many people like you say "awh who needs 'em"..you might not be singing that tune if another world power attacks us. It could kill us financially and end in severe damage and loss of life. You take it too lightly. Yes I do care more about my loved ones than some random person living in a third world despot. I'd rather have them alive then see them get shipped home in a body bag. We should be permitted to vote on war much like a presidential election..or at least the armed services should after all they're the ones who pay piper in the end. I don't like anyone being used as a pawn by any president now or in the future so he or she can play a real life version of RISK. War should always be a last resort not a first resort.. there were other options like waiting until saddam died or assasinating him. No doubt his sons would squable over power which would leave a power vacume allowing an IRAQI force to topple them. There are many more. Yeah war made this country strong and great only because it was NECCESSARY and no one refuted it and the economy works differently now. As the great Yoda said "Wars not make one great" :lol:
America is not pure good..it commits evil all the time. I encourage you not to ignore it. Now I know the suspense must be great...am I liberal, conservative, or liberarian? The answer is NONE of the above. I'm a monarchist pure an simple.
 
Now I really must go to bed..tiredness has set in heh. But hey..we're both May babies so woot for that.
 
Yeah well I dont know what war books you have read but there has been no war in the history of mankind that was set on a time table. So you are absolutely wrong on that too. We never had allies to begin with all we have is each other. The only country I trust is GB and the aussies. Everyone else I question there loyalty. So I am not suprised that there was not alot of help. But whether you beleive it or not we are recieving help from some 80+ countries in some way or another.
 
SKILMATIC said:
Yeah well I dont know what war books you have read but there has been no war in the history of mankind that was set on a time table. So you are absolutely wrong on that too. We never had allies to begin with all we have is each other. The only country I trust is GB and the aussies. Everyone else I question there loyalty. So I am not suprised that there was not alot of help. But whether you beleive it or not we are recieving help from some 80+ countries in some way or another.
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I got trust in Poland and the easter bloc countries...They just got their freedoms recently and are more understanding of the big picture....
 
SKILMATIC said:
Yeah well I dont know what war books you have read but there has been no war in the history of mankind that was set on a time table. So you are absolutely wrong on that too. We never had allies to begin with all we have is each other. The only country I trust is GB and the aussies. Everyone else I question there loyalty. So I am not suprised that there was not alot of help. But whether you beleive it or not we are recieving help from some 80+ countries in some way or another.
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Recieving help..you should properly define it. It's mostly money and a few of them have a small number troops in Iraq but most of those 80 countires are helping in Afghanistan. Never had allies? Without France there wouldn't be a U.S. France went bankrupt paying for OUR revolution and they provided military assistance. No allies? Ha! Australia? :rofl since when has Australia been anything in the world? NEVER..correction..back when it was a prison island. Being an allie doesn't mean you have to agree about war all the time. France helped in Afghanistan because it was a legitamate war. They are not helping in Iraq because they believe it to be illegitamate. And acctually yes there have been wars set on time tables. Do your research on Napoleon :wink:
 
Napoleon again the more you speak the more you dont know anything.

The aussies had the second 3rd most man-help there on Iraq and they aided in afghanistan. They were just below britain. And 4th was poland. 5th was japan, shall I go on?

Look, you are speaking to a man that has been there. Your info is coming from left wing media. Again, you want to have any credibility from me? First, you enlist and go there for a billit and then come to me and tell me what we are doing there isnt right?

The rest of the other nations such as france and germany aided with there pocket books.

Yes france was there to help blockade the British on the atlantic seas from re-supplying and re-maning there infrantry divisions in the south which stoped cornwalis in aiding the north into crushing Gearge Washington. But we helped there behinds twice in 2 world wars not to mention we helped the FrenchForeignLegion several times in the messes they cause in africa.
 
SKILMATIC said:
Napoleon again the more you speak the more you dont know anything.

The aussies had the second 3rd most man-help there on Iraq and they aided in afghanistan. They were just below britain. And 4th was poland. 5th was japan, shall I go on?

Look, you are speaking to a man that has been there. Your info is coming from left wing media. Again, you want to have any credibility from me? First, you enlist and go there for a billit and then come to me and tell me what we are doing there isnt right?

The rest of the other nations such as france and germany aided with there pocket books.

Yes france was there to help blockade the British on the atlantic seas from re-supplying and re-maning there infrantry divisions in the south which stoped cornwalis in aiding the north into crushing Gearge Washington. But we helped there behinds twice in 2 world wars not to mention we helped the FrenchForeignLegion several times in the messes they cause in africa.
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You're once again taking what I say out of context. I NEVER said Australia hasn't participated. My point with Australia was woop dee fricken do..since when does anyone care about what Australia does. Oh and by the way you proved my point when I said that the vast majority of those nations are NOT helping in Iraq. If they were doing such a fantastic job in Afghanistan then it wouldn't be carved up by drug lords would it? My info is comming from left wing media????:rofl for your information I watch FOX News. Why should I enlist? I believe it is an illegitamate war. I don't need to go over there and see the body bags and puddles of blood first hand. You're the do-gooder so instead of sloshing about a bunch of big talk why don't YOU enlist in the army and go over there? Until you do I think you're a hypocrite. France didn't only use military force. They litterally went bankrupt funding OUR war. French aristocrats also privatley funded the revolution as well. Beaumarchais for example..he spent millions and provided guns, amunitions, etc to the continental army at no cost to them and had a signed contract from the continental congress saying that he would be payed back in full. Low and behold after the war ended his family was given less than 2/3 of that money and were told to shove it. Thats your good ol' America...lies and deciet from the begining.
 
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In my experience, our greatest Allies are the Brits, the Poles, the Aussies, the Belgians, and the Spanish. I see them more than others from place to place. We have many other extremely strong allies, but their military sizes do not offer them the support they would like to give us.

Bringing up France for their role in our Revolutionary War is quite a reach. The French and the Brits were warring for centuries and their role in our war was just more of the same, how ever many other facts were involved.

Even German troops are fighting along side U.S. Marines in the HOA. They have decided to put their troops where their mouths are and refrain from the selfish mentality that runs rampant throughout Europe. Other countries in Europe that have condemned our humane efforts in Iraq for "reasons that there are other countries (HOA) in more need", have decided to embrace their finely tuned hypocricies. They are absent.
 
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why don't YOU enlist in the army and go over there? Until you do I think you're a hypocrite
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Lol, didnt I just tell you that I just enlisted in the national gaurd? ARMY national gaurd to be exact. And just becasue I was in the navy by no means was I subjected to a ship. I have been on land for quite an extensive time and got to go to baghdad with a marine convoy. Now in the 3months that I was there on foot in bagdad and other major cities like tikrit and fallujah I saw schermishes here and there and the occasional gun fire. But its nowhere near what you are thinking. The level of destruction and negativity that you are thinking of isnt even close to what is actually going on there. So again if you would like to enlist in the army as well and go with me I will be more than happy to serve with you. Anyone can do alot of talking. But someone that can do alot of doing is another level. Personally, I respect a person for at least doing something about the problem then doing nothing at all. Now whether or not that action was wright at least that person did something. So go ahead and feel free to do nothing and just talk casue thats all you are full of is meaningless words my friend.
 
SKILMATIC said:
Lol, didnt I just tell you that I just enlisted in the national gaurd? ARMY national gaurd to be exact. And just becasue I was in the navy by no means was I subjected to a ship. I have been on land for quite an extensive time and got to go to baghdad with a marine convoy. Now in the 3months that I was there on foot in bagdad and other major cities like tikrit and fallujah I saw schermishes here and there and the occasional gun fire. But its nowhere near what you are thinking. The level of destruction and negativity that you are thinking of isnt even close to what is actually going on there. So again if you would like to enlist in the army as well and go with me I will be more than happy to serve with you. Anyone can do alot of talking. But someone that can do alot of doing is another level. Personally, I respect a person for at least doing something about the problem then doing nothing at all. Now whether or not that action was wright at least that person did something. So go ahead and feel free to do nothing and just talk casue thats all you are full of is meaningless words my friend.
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Unlike you, I use my brain before going gungho and shooting anything in my path and filling body bags. Not as bad as I think? Children being blown up at their schools..check. Convoys being attacked and the burning bodies being hung from bridges..check. Car bombs exploding on a daily basis..check. People being taken hostage and executed..check. An unkown number of terrorists roaming freely commiting these crimes...check. Prison abuse..check. No end in sight...check. It's a cause which has no clear definition. It's better to do the wrong thing than do nothing at all???? Thats the most flawed logic I've ever heard. People love to say that things are going well over there until they become maimed or see a friend blown up right in front of them and weep over the body..then their opinion takes a 180 degree turn. Strange isn't it?
 
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cnredd said:
I got trust in Poland and the easter bloc countries...They just got their freedoms recently and are more understanding of the big picture....
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Hadn't thought of it that way. And to carry it a step further, who is mostly responsible for their freedom?
 
teacher said:
Hadn't thought of it that way. And to carry it a step further, who is mostly responsible for their freedom?
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In the short run, themselves, opening up their eyes after the breakup of the Soviet Union...

But long term, I'll have to go with the most hated country in the world according to the parts of Europe that were helped earlier in that century.
 
"Unlike you, I use my brain before going gungho and shooting anything in my path and filling body bags. Not as bad as I think? Children being blown up at their schools..check. Convoys being attacked and the burning bodies being hung from bridges..check. Car bombs exploding on a daily basis..check. People being taken hostage and executed..check. An unkown number of terrorists roaming freely commiting these crimes...check. Prison abuse..check. No end in sight...check. It's a cause which has no clear definition. It's better to do the wrong thing than do nothing at all???? Thats the most flawed logic I've ever heard. People love to say that things are going well over there until they become maimed or see a friend blown up right in front of them and weep over the body..then their opinion takes a 180 degree turn. Strange isn't it?"



You are not using your brain. You are using your heart and reacting negatively. Blaming America for the violence that Muslim is doing to Muslim is very constructive to the Middle Eastern Arab Mullah cause. These terrorists are roaming freely because their is no solid government with a solid police and military force to protect it. It's being worked on. Let's not forget that these terrorists are the product of what the Middle East is and what Iraq used to be. This movement is not a new creation and these "martyrs" did not love us at one time. They were raised to hate and to murder. Do not defend their right to practice their brand of Arab Islam.

What you describe as "war" is an occurence that happens in every war. There is nothing special here and there is no new occurrence. You bring to attention the isolated incidents - "prisoner abuse", "burned bodies hanging from bridges". The other that yiou bring to attention is a grotesque art form for the Islamic fundamentaklist that occured throughout the Middle East way before Iraq - "hostage taking", "executions", "car bombs", "children being blown up at their schools." It is their form of control over the masses of oppressed. You forget about the bombing in Iran before their elections earlier this year? Do you think that was an outside job as the Iranian security officer said...or do you think it was a reminder that voting for democracy is not in their best interest and just more of the same that we've seen throughout history in the Middle East?

What is strange is how people defend their sons in war against an enemy and then turn on a dime to blame their government for their son's murder after the fact. These kind of people are weak and they do their fallen dishonor by turning "180 degrees". It is a human condition to blame someone and it is easy to blame someone close than someone far away. Fundamental Islam is the enemy and has been since 1949. They have been attacking and murdering our civilians and we have done nothing. What is strange is how so many people cannot identify with this but instead choose to run with the fad and give the fundamentalist who's lives are dedicated to the destruction of people that are not of their faith, the murder of civilians, the massacre of races, the genocide of the "less than faithful Muslim"...a greater power through voice.
 
Originally posted by GySgt:
They were raised to hate and to murder.
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I think the same thing about you.
 
GySgt said:
"Unlike you, I use my brain before going gungho and shooting anything in my path and filling body bags. Not as bad as I think? Children being blown up at their schools..check. Convoys being attacked and the burning bodies being hung from bridges..check. Car bombs exploding on a daily basis..check. People being taken hostage and executed..check. An unkown number of terrorists roaming freely commiting these crimes...check. Prison abuse..check. No end in sight...check. It's a cause which has no clear definition. It's better to do the wrong thing than do nothing at all???? Thats the most flawed logic I've ever heard. People love to say that things are going well over there until they become maimed or see a friend blown up right in front of them and weep over the body..then their opinion takes a 180 degree turn. Strange isn't it?"



You are not using your brain. You are using your heart and reacting negatively. Blaming America for the violence that Muslim is doing to Muslim is very constructive to the Middle Eastern Arab Mullah cause. These terrorists are roaming freely because their is no solid government with a solid police and military force to protect it. It's being worked on. Let's not forget that these terrorists are the product of what the Middle East is and what Iraq used to be. This movement is not a new creation and these "martyrs" did not love us at one time. They were raised to hate and to murder. Do not defend their right to practice their brand of Arab Islam.

What you describe as "war" is an occurence that happens in every war. There is nothing special here and there is no new occurrence. You bring to attention the isolated incidents - "prisoner abuse", "burned bodies hanging from bridges". The other that yiou bring to attention is a grotesque art form for the Islamic fundamentaklist that occured throughout the Middle East way before Iraq - "hostage taking", "executions", "car bombs", "children being blown up at their schools." It is their form of control over the masses of oppressed. You forget about the bombing in Iran before their elections earlier this year? Do you think that was an outside job as the Iranian security officer said...or do you think it was a reminder that voting for democracy is not in their best interest and just more of the same that we've seen throughout history in the Middle East?

What is strange is how people defend their sons in war against an enemy and then turn on a dime to blame their government for their son's murder after the fact. These kind of people are weak and they do their fallen dishonor by turning "180 degrees". It is a human condition to blame someone and it is easy to blame someone close than someone far away. Fundamental Islam is the enemy and has been since 1949. They have been attacking and murdering our civilians and we have done nothing. What is strange is how so many people cannot identify with this but instead choose to run with the fad and give the fundamentalist who's lives are dedicated to the destruction of people that are not of their faith, the murder of civilians, the massacre of races, the genocide of the "less than faithful Muslim"...a greater power through voice.
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1. Interesting how you put that. Isn't that the reason why we're still there? To protect the people from ALL threats while the government and security forces are forming? I'm hardly defending anyones right to kill people but if the US had planned better (sealed the borders etc) there would be less carnage than there is now. Yes those things were happening in the Middle East but most of them were not happening and not to the degree that they are now under Saddam's reign. Do I think it's an outside job in Iraq? Partially yes, the government has said that militants are comming through the borders which we still have yet to close (I would think thats enough of a reason to do so). In Iran, I highly doubt it. Another reason why, if Bush feels that compelled to invade someone, we should have invaded Iran. There's a strong push and public outcry for democracy despite the torture etc. It's that kind of perserverence that would make a new government succeed..when its wanted that badly. Not the kind that only arises once in a while when someone invades and hands a government to a rather sedated population in comparrison.

2. Agreed but it is also easy to think something is worth a life until one is actually taken..when it becomes real not just an idea or something on paper. Look what happened with Communism. Iraq had "no collaborative relationship" with Al Qaeda as spoken by the 9/11 commission. And there were no terrorists blowing up schools before we got there. As I said before, there's a long long list of peoples who were and still are far more oppressed and brutalized. If this is a humanitarian war we should have gone somewhere else
 
"I think the same thing about you."

Well, I am a Marine's son.....but I don't see the rape and murder of civilians as punishment from God. I certainly don't see the chopping off of heads as God's will. I don't see the skyjacking of airplanes and crashing them into cities as a tool for war. I don't see the slaughter of black Africans as a way to gain power over another people. I don't see the taking of hostages and threatening to murder them as a way to get my way. I don't see chaining down a teenage girl to a bed in a cedment room and raping her until her family pays up as a tool to "punish". I don't see torture as honorable despite your attempts to persuade others that that is what we do. These are the people we have ignored for decades and are now finally fighting back. So...way to go by once again placing us into the same category as those that would offer your blood to "Allah" for being an infidel and an American.

Nope wasn't raised to hate or to be a murderer. I was raised in church and as a Christian that knows between right and wrong and I have the conviction to face that wrong. This is the problem with liberals. They are weak and lack conviction to fight for what is right. They are morally decrepit and feeble and hide behind those that do fight for them while stabbing them in the back. Freedom above everything is your crusade, but fighting for it is something someone else does and takes the blame for the "tragedies" that are necessary.

BUT in light with your statement - I will just return the pathetic insult and say that you were raised to be a coward and a weakling appeaser.
 
1) We can't seal the borders. Since the end of the War, there has been one Reinforced Regiment (10,000 Marines) guarding the Al-Anbar Province. This is the territory between Syria and Baghdad. This terrirtory is roughly the size of Utah. It is an impossible task. It is a task that we could do were we to put our entire military in, but that would only encourage the Iraqis to take their time with taking control of their own destiny. Planning better would have involved the rest of our Allies, but they refused to help. Even after the surprise of the insurgency, which nobody could predict, our "high and mighty" European "allies" have refused to help. They speak of humanity, but refuse to get invoilved to save these civilians that are being punished by their own religious fanatics. Invading Syria would calm this insurgency. Invading Iran (which is going to eventually happen) would have been a very decisive thing to do, but I am not the President and it is easy to wallow in hind sight. As it stands, Iran is at the "mercy" of the EU. If history continues to repeat itself, then eventually America will act in spite of Europe's continuing appeasements, but allied help in with Iran is a MUST. We would win easy enough, but because of the terrain, we would take heavy loss it would be slow going. Same goes with North Korea. Iraq was the logical and strategic place to spark democracy.

2) The connection between 9/11 and Iraq will not be on paper, unless they actually find something. Many of us were never under any illusion. The connection is the governmental teaching of hate against us that makes terrorists. It is Middle eastern wide and Iraq offered us a tactful situation. This war in Iraq had multiple reasons. Again...we are somewhere else. We are in the HOA. Other oppressions around the world are not a threat to our country. The Middle East is. Europe used this same arguments on us and they specified Sudan while snubbing us smugly about Iraqis. U.S. Marines have been in the HOA since last year. In the interest of not looking hypocritical, some German troops are also deployed there. Where is the rest of Europe if Africa was a worthy cause and Iraq wasn't? They are absent. America is all over the place. Only the focus is Iraq, because Iraq offers our haters a chance to point and our liberals a political chance to win something. They all have their own selfish agendas.

3) I've said before that this war is half-ass. As long as Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, and Palestine stand, we will always be victim to terrorists attacks. The problem is a hijacked religion that has been used to oppress it's people and the continuing fingering of America and Israel has been their Arab government's scapegoats. As long as this remains an issue...nothing will change. If Iraq is all we do for the time being, then the hopeful spread of Democracy from there is all we have going for us. The human condition is to want to be free. Just the taste of it in Iraq will disrupt any oppressive government that could take over after we leave.
 
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GySgt said:
1) We can't seal the borders. Since the end of the War, there has been one Reinforced Regiment (10,000 Marines) guarding the Al-Anbar Province. This is the territory between Syria and Baghdad. This terrirtory is roughly the size of Utah. It is an impossible task. It is a task that we could do were we to put our entire military in, but that would only encourage the Iraqis to take their time with taking control of their own destiny. Planning better would have involved the rest of our Allies, but they refused to help. Even after the surprise of the insurgency, which nobody could predict, our "high and mighty" European "allies" have refused to help. They speak of humanity, but refuse to get invoilved to save these civilians that are being punished by their own religious fanatics. Invading Syria would calm this insurgency. Invading Iran (which is going to eventually happen) would have been a very decisive thing to do, but I am not the President and it is easy to wallow in hind sight. As it stands, Iran is at the "mercy" of the EU. If history continues to repeat itself, then eventually America will act in spite of Europe's continuing appeasements, but allied help in with Iran is a MUST. We would win easy enough, but because of the terrain, we would take heavy loss it would be slow going. Same goes with North Korea. Iraq was the logical and strategic place to spark democracy.

2) The connection between 9/11 and Iraq will not be on paper, unless they actually find something. Many of us were never under any illusion. The connection is the governmental teaching of hate against us that makes terrorists. It is Middle eastern wide and Iraq offered us a tactful situation. This war in Iraq had multiple reasons. Again...we are somewhere else. We are in the HOA. Other oppressions around the world are not a threat to our country. The Middle East is. Europe used this same arguments on us and they specified Sudan while snubbing us smugly about Iraqis. U.S. Marines have been in the HOA since last year. In the interest of not looking hypocritical, some German troops are also deployed there. Where is the rest of Europe if Africa was a worthy cause and Iraq wasn't? They are absent. America is all over the place. Only the focus is Iraq.

3) I've said before that this war is half-ass. As long as Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, and Palestine stand, we will always be victim to terrorists attacks. The problem is a hijacked religion that has been used to oppress it's people and the continuing fingering of America and Israel has been their Arab government's scapegoats. As long as this remains an issue...nothing will change. If Iraq is all we do for the time being, then the hopeful spread of Democracy from there is all we have going for us. The human condition is to want to be free. Just the taste of it in Iraq will disrupt any oppressive government that could take over after we leave.
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I'll agree to disagree for the sake of ending this argument since neither of us are moving an inch. But I will say this as I did in another post. Favoring those who didn't ask for our help, wanted it mind you but didn't ask, over the voices of 2 MILLION people screaming for help while being slaughtered is simply unacceptable and an abomination. 2 MILLION people whos lives depended on our help were massacred because certain people in our government would rather play toy soldiers in Iraq. If Bush was really set on invading Iraq it should have taken a back burner to a REAL humanitarian effort.
 
Gunny, you're last few rants on this thread are dead on. As usual. I've nothing to add...............but you know I will anyway. You're logic leaves me free to address such issues as the following....


GySgt said:
I've always loved the Poles. Their history is rich and proud. It's a pity that their roles in the shaping of freedom has been swept under the carpet by countries like France and they have been abused for their courage.
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Not to mention all the crass jokes at their expense over the years.

Like:
Q. What do you do if a (insert ethnicity here) throws a grenade at you?
A. Pull the pin out and throw it back.

Notice I didn't involve any race there specifically but you all know who I meant eh? Clever eh? Nah. I learned that one from champs. When he told cnredd "Now I'm not calling you an assho*le but I'm just saying......". He also taught me you can say bullshit out loud. Cool huh? Bullshit. BULLSHIT. But you can't say: **** from a bull. See?
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"I'll agree to disagree for the sake of ending this argument since neither of us are moving an inch. But I will say this as I did in another post. Favoring those who didn't ask for our help, wanted it mind you but didn't ask, over the voices of 2 MILLION people screaming for help while being slaughtered is simply unacceptable and an abomination. 2 MILLION people whos lives depended on our help were massacred because certain people in our government would rather play toy soldiers in Iraq. If Bush was really set on invading Iraq it should have taken a back burner to a REAL humanitarian effort."

Too true and I whole heartedly agree with regards to the humanitarian part, but don't lose the fact that the possible WMD in Iraq was an issue that wouldn't allow the "back burner." Again...hind sight is 20/20.

Also severly oppressed countries where executions are dealt out for crimes against the state, is one hell of a muzzle. In countries where oppression hasn't muzzled it's citizens...where is the rest of the world? Where is the high and mighty Europe? They condemn us yet do nothing in these countries they point out to us. America doesn't always have to be the only janitors. If we were to go full scale into Africa, we would have the bare minimum of help from these other countries and the task is overwhelming. I could write volumes on Africa.
 
GySgt said:
"I'll agree to disagree for the sake of ending this argument since neither of us are moving an inch. But I will say this as I did in another post. Favoring those who didn't ask for our help, wanted it mind you but didn't ask, over the voices of 2 MILLION people screaming for help while being slaughtered is simply unacceptable and an abomination. 2 MILLION people whos lives depended on our help were massacred because certain people in our government would rather play toy soldiers in Iraq. If Bush was really set on invading Iraq it should have taken a back burner to a REAL humanitarian effort."

Too true and I whole heartedly agree with regards to the humanitarian part, but don't lose the fact that the possible WMD in Iraq was an issue that wouldn't allow the "back burner." Again...hind sight is 20/20.

Also severly oppressed countries where executions are dealt out for crimes against the state, is one hell of a muzzle. In countries where oppression hasn't muzzled it's citizens...where is the rest of the world? Where is the high and mighty Europe? They condemn us yet do nothing in these countries they point out to us. America doesn't always have to be the only janitors. If we were to go full scale into Africa, we would have the bare minimum of help from these other countries and the task is overwhelming. I could write volumes on Africa.
Click to expand...

I doubt they would have said no. What reason would they have given to saying no to preventing genocide? Besides, it's all PR to them. Take part in a humanitarian effort get an extra 2% around election time.
 
They would not have said no, but like Somalia, they would not have committed and would, in the end, leave us alone with only our truest allies to help...and it wouldn't be enough. Unless we are willing to finish the job, we would only wind up causing more harm than good - again, I mention Somalia. Africa demands everyone's attention, because everyone shares some blame. From America's tearing apart of families through slavery to Europe's raping of resources through colonization and then just leaving, we all have had something to do with it. Ultimately, rich Africans seeking more power through military use and "devine" Islamic militants are to blame.

I wrote more on this on this thread.....



U.S. Marines, Iraqi Troops Finish 'Quick Strike' Operation
 
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