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Iraq Invasion

shuamort

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This is why we invaded Iraq:

Quote: (source NEWSMAX.COM)
WASHINGTON – The White House said Thursday that it had "solid" evidence Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction. "Iraq has lied before, and they're lying now about whether they possess weapons of mass destruction," said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer.

"President Bush has said Iraq has weapons of mass destruction." "Donald Rumsfeld has said Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.

President Bush has vowed to lead a "coalition of the willing" to forcibly disarm Iraq if Saddam Hussein fails to do so voluntarily.
Bush to the UN
Quote: (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)
We know that Saddam Hussein pursued weapons of mass murder even when inspectors were in his country. Are we to assume that he stopped when they left? The history, the logic, and the facts lead to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take.

Delegates to the General Assembly, we have been more than patient. We've tried sanctions. We've tried the carrot of oil for food, and the stick of coalition military strikes. But Saddam Hussein has defied all these efforts and continues to develop weapons of mass destruction. The first time we may be completely certain he has a -- nuclear weapons is when, God forbids, he uses one. We owe it to all our citizens to do everything in our power to prevent that day from coming.
Address by Bush 10/7/02 (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)
The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror. Eleven years ago, as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was required to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, to cease all development of such weapons, and to stop all support for terrorist groups. The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons.

First, some ask why Iraq is different from other countries or regimes that also have terrible weapons. While there are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone -- because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq's weapons of mass destruction are controlled by a murderous tyrant who has already used chemical weapons to kill thousands of people. This same tyrant has tried to dominate the Middle East, has invaded and brutally occupied a small neighbor, has struck other nations without warning, and holds an unrelenting hostility toward the United States.

The time for denying, deceiving, and delaying has come to an end. Saddam Hussein must disarm himself -- or, for the sake of peace, we will lead a coalition to disarm him.

There is no easy or risk-free course of action. Some have argued we should wait -- and that's an option. In my view, it's the riskiest of all options, because the longer we wait, the stronger and bolder Saddam Hussein will become. We could wait and hope that Saddam does not give weapons to terrorists, or develop a nuclear weapon to blackmail the world. But I'm convinced that is a hope against all evidence.

Ari Fleischer: (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)
Quote:Q Can we presume that the President is very happy that Mr. Blix says there is no smoking gun in the search for weapons in Iraq?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, the problem with guns that are hidden is you can't see their smoke.
Bush, addressing the US, March 17th, 2003 (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)
For more than a decade, the United States and other nations have pursued patient and honorable efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime without war. That regime pledged to reveal and destroy all its weapons of mass destruction as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War in 1991.

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

It is too late for Saddam Hussein to remain in power. It is not too late for the Iraqi military to act with honor and protect your country by permitting the peaceful entry of coalition forces to eliminate weapons of mass destruction.
Ari Fleischer gives us THE SMOKING GUN (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)
Q But Iraq is the sole goal?

MR. FLEISCHER: The President has made repeatedly clear to the American people, as he said in his address to the nation the other night, that the purpose of this is the disarmament of the Iraqi regime.
 

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shuamort said:
This is why we invaded Iraq:

Quote: (source NEWSMAX.COM)

Bush to the UN
Quote: (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)

Address by Bush 10/7/02 (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)



Ari Fleischer: (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)

Bush, addressing the US, March 17th, 2003 (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)

Ari Fleischer gives us THE SMOKING GUN (SOURCE: WHITEHOUSE.GOV)
But, where are the weapons? Shouldn't we have known that, since we destroyed the Iraqi army a little over ten years ago, he would not be able, as a leader of a third world country, to develop any such force able to threaten the most powerful country in the history of the world? Call that rhetorical, call it whatever you want, but it presents, despite what some like strangelove say, a valid question. Is the war worth its cost( http://costofwar.com/ )? We have killed 17,000+ Iraqi civilians in the course of liberating them from a dictator that apparently had no weapons of mass destruction. The whole WMD argument is proposterous, as Bush was obviously stirring up fear in the American people by mentioning 'nuclear' and 'Saddam' in the same sentences. Would Americans have supported this war had it not been for this flawed and pressured intel about WMDs? Apparently not, as a majority of americans now, now that we know the truth,
think the war in Iraq was a mistake ( http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm ). The British and American sources for the intel used to justify the war were seriously flawed ( http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=132&id=883722004 , http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/intelligence_07-09-04.html ). From the second link there, we can see that 'officially' the CIA was not pressured, but it goes on to say that there was pressure in this form: "pressure in the form of 'hammering on analysts' was greater than he had seen in his 32 years of service." . This flawed and pressured intel to make a case for WMDs shows that Iraq was certainly a mistake, and not only should we blame President Bush here for authorizing the use of force when he, as president, knew as well as anyone the 'intel' that existed for Iraq, and knew that it was somewhat pressured. From this info, we should be able to see that the decision to invade Iraq was a hurried one at best.
 

shuamort

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anomaly said:
But, where are the weapons?
Can't find what wasn't there. The thread began asking why we invaded Iraq. I elucidated the reason that the administration gave to invading. Bush's information (as well as Clinton's) were under the belief that Saddam had WMDs. Thems the facts.

Now whether if you agree or not with that justifying the US invasion or if the lack of the believed existance of WMDs negates the worth... the motives proffered by the administration are what was the original justification.



Of course, there's rationale that has come out since the WMDs have been coming up empty. And then there's that one interesting quote from Cheney:
(Page 26 of this pdf download)
"... Though the immediate mission of those forces is to enforce the no-fly zones over northern and southern Iraq, they represent the long-term commitment of the United States and its major allies to a region of vital importance. Indeed, the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."
 

anomaly

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shuamort said:
Can't find what wasn't there. The thread began asking why we invaded Iraq. I elucidated the reason that the administration gave to invading. Bush's information (as well as Clinton's) were under the belief that Saddam had WMDs. Thems the facts.

Now whether if you agree or not with that justifying the US invasion or if the lack of the believed existance of WMDs negates the worth... the motives proffered by the administration are what was the original justification.



Of course, there's rationale that has come out since the WMDs have been coming up empty. And then there's that one interesting quote from Cheney:
(Page 26 of this pdf download)
I can't really tell if you're pro or anti-war? So fist, just to soothe my curiosity, which are you? Also, as mentioned in my last link, the CIA was 'hammered' by officials to come up with intel against Iraq or intel supporting them having WMDs. This will obviously lead to flawed intel. That's why I'm against the war, as well as the obvious human costs. Perhaps as many as 20,000 people have died so far who didn't have to, and the war is proving not to be worth its cost (human and monetary costs).
 

Arch Enemy

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First let me start off by an introduction:

Hi I am Arch Enemy/Jeff

I am a 15 Year Old Student at a High School in North Carolina.

I am still leaning towards both sides of these debates (Liberal and Conservative)

In addition to the "why invade Iraq" I would like to ask... Why Invade Iraq, over Sudan where Genocide is taking place and 600,000 people are the targets?

An, I actually think that people who have experienced war DO have a better understanding and have a more vaild opinion. War is nothing to be joking about, we all love War Video Games but alot of war ends up turning into Genocide and unless we have experienced it we really have no TRUE opinion.

I don't like Bush, his cabinet, his party (execpt Rice) nor anything to do with Bush. Alas, we are at the point where if we don't support Bush that's dandy.. but never go as far as not supporting our Troops whom may have wrongfully invaded a country.

You're also right in saying that a soldier may have a biast opinion. It's my belief that a soldier, unknowingly, will force themselves to see this war as "helpful" or "justified" that is because Humans will do anything to justify their actions.. especially when it means shooting people in the face.

Concluding: It is true that the Iraqi Invasion was a mistake.. but it is also true that no Nation has been formed without a sort of war to win their "independence" and I don't critize people who believe this is an Independence War for a war-torn nation.
 

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Arch Enemy said:
First let me start off by an introduction:

Hi I am Arch Enemy/Jeff

I am a 15 Year Old Student at a High School in North Carolina.

I am still leaning towards both sides of these debates (Liberal and Conservative)

In addition to the "why invade Iraq" I would like to ask... Why Invade Iraq, over Sudan where Genocide is taking place and 600,000 people are the targets?

An, I actually think that people who have experienced war DO have a better understanding and have a more vaild opinion. War is nothing to be joking about, we all love War Video Games but alot of war ends up turning into Genocide and unless we have experienced it we really have no TRUE opinion.

I don't like Bush, his cabinet, his party (execpt Rice) nor anything to do with Bush. Alas, we are at the point where if we don't support Bush that's dandy.. but never go as far as not supporting our Troops whom may have wrongfully invaded a country.

You're also right in saying that a soldier may have a biast opinion. It's my belief that a soldier, unknowingly, will force themselves to see this war as "helpful" or "justified" that is because Humans will do anything to justify their actions.. especially when it means shooting people in the face.

Concluding: It is true that the Iraqi Invasion was a mistake.. but it is also true that no Nation has been formed without a sort of war to win their "independence" and I don't critize people who believe this is an Independence War for a war-torn nation.
Welcome to Debate Politics!

Couple of things:

Not everyone "loves war video games." I know I don't- don't know anything about them. Second sometimes war prevents genocide, though in this case I sincerely doubt that's the case. Which is why I agree with your assessment that this war was a mistake.
 

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I always believed that War never prevented Genocide, instead, War prolongs the intent and the man power to commit Genocide.. and in a lot of cases war trying to "prevent" suspected Genocide always fails because the Nation wanting to commit Genocide is usually the one with a bigger force and intimidates other nations.
 

RightinNYC

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Arch Enemy said:
I always believed that War never prevented Genocide, instead, War prolongs the intent and the man power to commit Genocide.. and in a lot of cases war trying to "prevent" suspected Genocide always fails because the Nation wanting to commit Genocide is usually the one with a bigger force and intimidates other nations.
What about WWII?
 

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Genocide wasn't prevented.. Genocide or the acting of Genocide did happen.. still countless people lost their lives, I don't see that as a success.
 

RightinNYC

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Arch Enemy said:
Genocide wasn't prevented.. Genocide or the acting of Genocide did happen.. still countless people lost their lives, I don't see that as a success.
Are you kidding me?

How on earth was World War II not a success?

6 million Jews were killed by the Nazi's. There were millions more in their death camps that were liberated by the Allies, who would have been part of the genocide if we hadn't ended it.

Tell the families of the millions of Holocaust survivors that the war wasn't a success.
 

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It was a gitty and glad for the holocaust survivors but there were other problems. People were still being killed even after the war. Russians, Japanese, Germans and other nations still suffered deaths which adds up to be more than the predicted death toll of Jews.

Either way you look at it.. war, this war in particular, never really had a happy story everyone lost.. it was a lose lose situation.
 

RightinNYC

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Arch Enemy said:
It was a gitty and glad for the holocaust survivors but there were other problems. People were still being killed even after the war. Russians, Japanese, Germans and other nations still suffered deaths which adds up to be more than the predicted death toll of Jews.

Either way you look at it.. war, this war in particular, never really had a happy story everyone lost.. it was a lose lose situation.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Want to give me some evidence that there were more "Russians, Japanese, and Germans" who were killed after the war that superceded the millions of Jews and others who were in the concentration camps?

Besides the actual numbers who were freed, there were many more who WOULD have been placed in concentration camps if the Nazi's had had free reign. If the US hadn't become involved in the war, there is absolutely no telling how the rest of the war in Europe would have played out.

Do you know ANYTHING about world war II? Or did they not get to that yet in your high school?
 

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Hello, american people, i dont speak english very well, but illtry to do understand...

The problem that you have is that you believe too much in your country and in your flag... Please dont

In usa, there are almost 30 millones of homless, the childs wears guns to the school !, your country si in bankruptcy! but dont worry you will vote to the same ****ing conservative gov that dont believe in the people, believe in the money for himselve...

Your a country is coming to his end.

I think you, american people, are idiots, youre so blind... need to change your form of see the thinks.

Now the European Union will take the reins of the world, since you are a barbarians, an unsupportive, and a the biggest terrorists in this ****ing world...

Bush is a fascist, an assasain, and a sausage...

Como os jode que Venezuela compre barcos de guerra a España y no a USA, se os ve el plumero malditos egoistas atrasados.

Read and shut up stupids americans...:

1. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué porcentaje de la población mundial tiene los Estados Unidos?
RESPUESTA: 6%

2. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué porcentaje de la riqueza mundial tiene los Estados Unidos?
RESPUESTA: 50%

3. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué país tiene la mayor reserva petrolera del mundo?
RESPUESTA: Arabia Saudita

4. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué país tiene la segunda reserva petrolera del mundo?
RESPUESTA: Irak

5. PREGUNTA: ¿A cuánto asciendo el presupuesto militar anual de todo el mundo?
RESPUESTA: $900.000 millones

6. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuánto de esto gasta Estados Unidos solamente?
RESPUESTA: 50%

7. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué porcentaje del gasto militar de los Estados Unidos podría
asegurar lo esencial para vivir a todos los habitantes del planeta según las Naciones Unidas?
RESPUESTA: 10% (eso es alrededor de $40.000 millones, la cantidad de dinero destinada inicialmente para financiar la guerra de Afghanistán).

8. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas personas han muerto a causa de guerras desde la Segunda Guerra Mundial?
RESPUESTA: 86 millones

9. PREGUNTA: ¿Desde cuándo tuvo Irak armas químicas y biológicas?
RESPUESTA: Desde principios de los 80's.

10. PREGUNTA: ¿Desarrolló el gobierno de Irak estas armas químicas y biológicas por sí mismo?
RESPUESTA: No, los materiales y la tecnología fueron suministrados por el gobierno de los Estados Unidos, Gran Bretaña y corporaciones privadas.

11. PREGUNTA: ¿Condenó el gobierno de los Estados Unidos el uso de gas venenoso por parte de Irak en la guerra contra Irán?
RESPUESTA: No

12. PREGUNTA: ¿A cuántas personas asesinó Saddam Hussein usando gas venenoso en el pueblo kurdo de Halabja en 1988?
RESPUESTA: 5,000

13. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos países occidentales condenaron esta acción en ese momento?
RESPUESTA: 0

14. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos galones del agente químico Naranja utilizó Estados Unidos en Vietnam?
RESPUESTA: 17millones.

15. PREGUNTA: ¿Existe alguna evidencia de que Irak esté vinculado a los ataques terroristas del 11 de septiembre?
RESPUESTA: No

16. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuál es el número estimado de bajas civiles en la Guerra del Golfo?
RESPUESTA: 35,000

17. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas bajas produjeron los militares iraquíes a las fuerzas occidentales durante la Guerra del Golfo?
RESPUESTA: 0

18. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos militares iraquíes en retirada fueron enterrados vivos por los tanques de Estados Unidos adaptados especialmente para ello?
RESPUESTA: 6,000

19. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas toneladas de uranio empobrecido fueron dejadas en Irak y Kuwait después de la Guerra del Golfo?
RESPUESTA: 40 toneladas

20. PREGUNTA: ¿A cuánto ascendió, de acuerdo a las Naciones Unidas, la incidencia de cáncer en Irak entre 1991 y 1994?
RESPUESTA: 700%

21. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué tanto de la capacidad militar iraquí Estados Unidos proclamó haber destruido en 1991?
RESPUESTA: 80%

22. PREGUNTA: ¿Existe alguna evidencia de que Irak se proponga usar su armamento para algo más que defenderse?
RESPUESTA: No

23. PREGUNTA: ¿Representa Irak en la actualidad una amenaza a la paz mundial mayor que hace 10 años?
RESPUESTA: No

24. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos civiles espera el Pentágono que morirán en Irak como resultado del ataque militar norteamericano?
RESPUESTA: 10,000

25. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué porcentaje de esa suma serán niños?
RESPUESTA: Más del 50%

26. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos años tiene Estados Unidos efectuando ataques aéreos
contra Irak?
RESPUESTA: 11 años

27. PREGUNTA: ¿Estuvieron los Estados Unidos e Inglaterra en guerra con Irak entre diciembre de 1998 y septiembre de 1999?
RESPUESTA: No

28. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas libras de explosivos fueron lanzadas sobre Irak
entre diciembre de 1998 y septiembre de 1999?
RESPUESTA: 20 millones

29. PREGUNTA: ¿Hace cuántos años que la resolución 661 de las Naciones Unidas le impuso estrictas sanciones a Irak en sus importaciones y exportaciones?
RESPUESTA: 12 años

30. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuál era la tasa de mortalidad infantil en Irak en 1989 (por 1,000 nacimientos)?
RESPUESTA: 38

31. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuál fue la tasa de mortalidad infantil en Irak en 1999 (por 1,000 nacimientos)?
RESPUESTA: 131 (esto representa un aumento de 345%)

32. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos iraquíes se estima que hayan muerto para octubre de 1999 como resultado de las sanciones de las Naciones Unidas?
RESPUESTA: 1.5 millones

33. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos niños se estima que han muerto como resultado de las sanciones desde 1997?
RESPUESTA: 750,000

34. PREGUNTA: ¿Le ordenó Saddam a los inspectores de armas que abandonaran Irak?
RESPUESTA: No

35. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas inspecciones hubo en Irak entre noviembre y diciembre de 1998?
RESPUESTA: 300

36. PREGUNTA: ¿En cuántas de esas inspecciones hubo problemas?
RESPUESTA: 5

37. PREGUNTA: ¿Se le permitió a los inspectores de armas entrar a la sede principal del Partido Ba'ath?
RESPUESTA: Si

38. PREGUNTA: ¿Quién dijo en diciembre de 1998, "Iraq, de hecho, ha sido desarmado a un nivel sin precedente en la historia moderna."?
RESPUESTA: Scott Ritter, Jefe del UNSCOM.

39. PREGUNTA: ¿Qué tanto de la capacidad iraquí para desarrollar armas de destrucción masiva los inspectores de la ONU habían descubierto y desmantelado en 1998, según su propia declaración?
RESPUESTA: 90%

40. PREGUNTA: ¿Aceptó Irak el retorno de los inspectores de armas?
RESPUESTA: Si

41. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas resoluciones de las Naciones Unidas había violado Israel para 1992?
RESPUESTA: Más de 65

42. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas resoluciones de las Naciones Unidas sobre Israel han sido vetadas por los Estados Unidos entre 1972 y 1990?
RESPUESTA: Más de 30

44. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántos países se sabe que poseen armas nucleares?
RESPUESTA: 8

45. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas armas nucleares tiene Irak?
RESPUESTA: 0

46. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas cabezas nucleares tiene Estados Unidos?
RESPUESTA: Más de 10,000

47. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuál es el único país que ha usado armas nucleares provocando destrucción masiva en dos ocasiones?
RESPUESTA: Los Estados Unidos

48. PREGUNTA: ¿Cuántas cabezas nucleares tiene Israel?
RESPUESTA: Más de 400

50. PREGUNTA: ¿Quién dijo, "Nuestras vidas empezarán a terminar el día que guardemos silencio sobre las cosas que realmente importan"?
RESPUESTA: Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr


Most of the things that go badly in the world is for your fault...
 
Last edited:

Pacridge

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walvaro said:
Hello, american people, i dont speak english very well, but illtry to do understand...

The problem that you have is that you believe too much in your country and in your flag... Please dont

In usa, there are almost 30 millones of homless, the childs wears guns to the school !, your country si in bankruptcy! but dont worry you will vote to the same ****ing conservative gov that dont believe in the people, believe in the money for himselve...

Your a country is coming to his end.

I think you, american people, are idiots, youre so blind... need to change your form of see the thinks.

Now the European Union will take the reins of the world, since you are a barbarians, an unsupportive, and a the biggest terrorists in this ****ing world...

Bush is a fascist, an assasain, and a sausage...

Como os jode que Venezuela compre barcos de guerra a España y no a USA, se os ve el plumero malditos egoistas atrasados.

Most of the things that go badly in the world is for your fault...
Welcome to Debate Politics!

I think there's a forum rule that posts here are suppose to be in English.

Bush is a sausage? I gotta say I've never heard that one before- that's funny. No that hilarious. No, that's fu*king hilarious! Not even sure what it really means- but I'm laughing out loud.
 

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Obviously you're a typical Racist who can't see other points of view and when he cannot say something reverts to critizing other peoples age.

I am talking about the total death casualties in WWII 52 million on both sides.. not including the minor countries and the holocaust victims.

I am beginning to think you are over zealous of the United States... America didn't win the war for the allies.. Russia and Luck did. The Panzer divisions were 10 miles away from Moscow when a sudden cold storm hit. The army had to pull out and while they were being pulled out, they were attacked by the Russians who fled Moscow to get away from the Panzers.

For luck... As you obviously know the Panzers were stationed at another beach for that's where they thought the attack would come.. not at Omaha. The German commander on the beaches of Omaha saw the boats coming.. he couldn't activate the Panzers to help out the beach becasue Hitler had to be the one who gave the orders to activate "elite" troops of Germany. Hitler, at the time, was sleeping peacefully and he had a policy that if someone were to awake him from his slumber they would be demoted.

Why did you bring up World War II.. this is about the Iraqi Invasion.

You are the reason why other countries hate America.. Have your head in clouds becasue we are such a "good" democracy. Obviously you've never lived in a 3rd World Country before.....
 

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Arch Enemy said:
Obviously you're a typical Racist who can't see other points of view and when he cannot say something reverts to critizing other peoples age.

I am talking about the total death casualties in WWII 52 million on both sides.. not including the minor countries and the holocaust victims.

I am beginning to think you are over zealous of the United States... America didn't win the war for the allies.. Russia and Luck did. The Panzer divisions were 10 miles away from Moscow when a sudden cold storm hit. The army had to pull out and while they were being pulled out, they were attacked by the Russians who fled Moscow to get away from the Panzers.

For luck... As you obviously know the Panzers were stationed at another beach for that's where they thought the attack would come.. not at Omaha. The German commander on the beaches of Omaha saw the boats coming.. he couldn't activate the Panzers to help out the beach becasue Hitler had to be the one who gave the orders to activate "elite" troops of Germany. Hitler, at the time, was sleeping peacefully and he had a policy that if someone were to awake him from his slumber they would be demoted.

Why did you bring up World War II.. this is about the Iraqi Invasion.

You are the reason why other countries hate America.. Have your head in clouds becasue we are such a "good" democracy. Obviously you've never lived in a 3rd World Country before.....
Who are you calling a racist?

Have you ever lived in a third world country? I have. I've lived in the Philippines, Kenya and Indonesia.
 

walvaro

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sausage is sinonim of thief in spain...

Chorizo, ladrón, ratero, mangante, etc..

Ah! Arch Enemy!, USA is not an democracy is an econocracy...

Because, where is the ecologists party?, and the socialists?, where is the comunists?, de nacionalists?, i see only extrem right, (republicans), and right, (democrats), where is the left partys?, the workers partys?, where is the people in USA?, there are only two cats that distribute the cake.
 
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This is the list of political parties and coalitions with representation in the Congress or the Senate, for alphabetical order, in Spain

* Bloque Nacionalista Galego (BNG)
* Chunta Aragonesista (CHA)
* Coalición Canaria (CC)
* Convergència i Unió (CiU)
* Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (ERC)
* Eusko Alkartasuna EA
* Izquierda Unida (IU)
* Nafarroa Bai
* Partido Nacionalista Vasco (PNV-EAJ)
* Partido Popular (PP)
* Partido Socialista Obrero Español (PSOE) <--- Now is in the government. Yes socialists.

And here, the political parties and present coalitions only in town halls or autonomic courts.

* Andecha Astur (AA) (Principado de Asturias)
* Bloc Nacionalista Valencià (BNV) (Comunidad Valenciana)
* Centro Democrático y Social (CDS)
* Euskal Herritarrok (EH): Nowadays prohibited by apology of the terrorism.
* Iniciativa per Catalunya - Verds (ICV)
* Iniciativa por La Orotava (IpO) (Canarias)
* Partido Andalucista (PA) (Andalucía)
* Partido Aragonés Regionalista (PAR) (Aragón)
* Partido Nacionalista Canario (PNC) (Canarias)
* Partido Regionalista de Cantabria (PRC) (Cantabria)
* Partit Socialista de Mallorca - Entesa Nacionalista (PSM-EN) (Islas Baleares)
* Tierra Comunera-Partido Nacionalista Castellano (TC-PNC) (Burgos)
* Unión del Pueblo Leonés (UPL) (León)
* Unión del Pueblo Navarro (UPN) (Navarra)


¿In USA, what number of parties there are in the congress or the senate?
 
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anomaly

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walvaro said:
This is the list of political parties and coalitions with representation in the Congress or the Senate, for alphabetical order, in Spain

* Bloque Nacionalista Galego (BNG)
* Chunta Aragonesista (CHA)
* Coalición Canaria (CC)
* Convergència i Unió (CiU)
* Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (ERC)
* Eusko Alkartasuna EA
* Izquierda Unida (IU)
* Nafarroa Bai
* Partido Nacionalista Vasco (PNV-EAJ)
* Partido Popular (PP)
* Partido Socialista Obrero Español (PSOE) <--- Now is in the government. Yes socialists.

And here, the political parties and present coalitions only in town halls or autonomic courts.

* Andecha Astur (AA) (Principado de Asturias)
* Bloc Nacionalista Valencià (BNV) (Comunidad Valenciana)
* Centro Democrático y Social (CDS)
* Euskal Herritarrok (EH): Nowadays prohibited by apology of the terrorism.
* Iniciativa per Catalunya - Verds (ICV)
* Iniciativa por La Orotava (IpO) (Canarias)
* Partido Andalucista (PA) (Andalucía)
* Partido Aragonés Regionalista (PAR) (Aragón)
* Partido Nacionalista Canario (PNC) (Canarias)
* Partido Regionalista de Cantabria (PRC) (Cantabria)
* Partit Socialista de Mallorca - Entesa Nacionalista (PSM-EN) (Islas Baleares)
* Tierra Comunera-Partido Nacionalista Castellano (TC-PNC) (Burgos)
* Unión del Pueblo Leonés (UPL) (León)
* Unión del Pueblo Navarro (UPN) (Navarra)


¿In USA, what number of parties there are in the congress or the senate?
Unfotunately I haven't the time to decipher spanish, so I could not read your long list (in your previous post), but I'm sure I would have agreed with many of your points. I too fall under the label of socialist, and I've been wondring, are the socialists running your gov't so far successful? And has your life improved any under them? Basically, what do you think of the socialists so far, how good of a job are they doing?
 

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walvaro said:
Hello, american people, i dont speak english very well, but illtry to do understand...

The problem that you have is that you believe too much in your country and in your flag... Please dont

In usa, there are almost 30 millones of homless, the childs wears guns to the school !, your country si in bankruptcy! but dont worry you will vote to the same ****ing conservative gov that dont believe in the people, believe in the money for himselve...

Your a country is coming to his end.

I think you, american people, are idiots, youre so blind... need to change your form of see the thinks.

Now the European Union will take the reins of the world, since you are a barbarians, an unsupportive, and a the biggest terrorists in this ****ing world...

Bush is a fascist, an assasain, and a sausage...

Como os jode que Venezuela compre barcos de guerra a España y no a USA, se os ve el plumero malditos egoistas atrasados.

Most of the things that go badly in the world is for your fault...
Thank you for your completely unintelligible and incorrect statements.

Just so you know: There are not 30 million homeless. Our economy is growing at 4 times the rate of Europe's. Our country is not coming to an end. And *******IT OUR PRESIDENT IS NOT A SAUSAGE! :eek:

If I had a penny for every time I heard that...well, I'd still be broke. But it'd be funny.
 

RightinNYC

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Arch Enemy said:
Obviously you're a typical Racist who can't see other points of view and when he cannot say something reverts to critizing other peoples age.
Obviously you're 15, don't know anything, and wouldn't know what racism was if it bit you in the ass.

I am talking about the total death casualties in WWII 52 million on both sides.. not including the minor countries and the holocaust victims.
The difference was that many of those 52 million were combatants. However, of the 13 million prisoners in German camps, only about 4 million were combatants.

I am beginning to think you are over zealous of the United States...
Obviously you're not overzealous of the grammar...

America didn't win the war for the allies.. Russia and Luck did. The Panzer divisions were 10 miles away from Moscow when a sudden cold storm hit. The army had to pull out and while they were being pulled out, they were attacked by the Russians who fled Moscow to get away from the Panzers.

For luck... As you obviously know the Panzers were stationed at another beach for that's where they thought the attack would come.. not at Omaha. The German commander on the beaches of Omaha saw the boats coming.. he couldn't activate the Panzers to help out the beach becasue Hitler had to be the one who gave the orders to activate "elite" troops of Germany. Hitler, at the time, was sleeping peacefully and he had a policy that if someone were to awake him from his slumber they would be demoted.
You're right, the winter did decimate much of Germany's armies on the Eastern front. But if there had been no Western Front (aka Americans), things would have played out far differently.

Why did you bring up World War II.. this is about the Iraqi Invasion.
I brought it up because you made the fallacious claim that no war has ever stopped genocide, and I have a fetish for correcting false statements.

You are the reason why other countries hate America..
I didn't know I was that important. I'll have to call my mom and let her know the good news.

Have your head in clouds becasue we are such a "good" democracy.
It IS a good country, isn't it?


Obviously you've never lived in a 3rd World Country before.....
Does Pennsyltuckey count? Enlighten me, oh worldly pre-pubescent genius.
 

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New rule NYU, try not to act like an ass to other people on the forums and I wont respond in a hostile way. That way we can converse without being at each others throat's. I'll just consider your most recent "dissing" as if they didn't exist.

I actually lived in Venezuela.. Catia La Mar to be exact. Though it isn't listed among the 3rd World Countries I have seen my fair of racism there... People being beaten because they belong to a certain region of the nation. The police there ARE not your friend... they are used to fighting the Columbian Drug Dealers.
 
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RightatNYU

You and a lot of people in usa, follow in your own bubble...

Read:

-The United States locate in the position Nº49 of the world in literacy.
(The New York Times, 12/12/ 2004)

-The United States occupy the position Nº28 in the ranking of mathematical literacy between 40 countries.
(NYT,12/12/ 2004)

-20 % of the Americans thinks that the Sun turns about the Earth. 17 % believes that the Earth gives the return to the Sun once per day.
(The Week, 7/01/ 2005).

-The International Inspection on Adults' Literacy discovered that the Americans with less than nine years of education position practically worse than the rest of the developed countries. (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book: The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78)

-Our workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that the American Businesses spends(consumes) 30 billion dollars per year in training to solve failings. (NYT, 12/12/2004)

-The European Union surpasses to The United States in: the number of scientists and graduated engineers; the public investment in investigation(research) and development (I+D); and the new produced capital. (The European Dream, p.70)

-Europe exceeded to the United States, in the middle of ' 90, for being the biggest producer of scientific literature. (The European Dream, p.70)

-Nevertheless, the Congress cut the funds away for the National Science Foundation. The Agency is going to grant, this year, 1000 scholarships less of investigation (NYT, 21/12/2004). The foreigners' requests to be present at courses of postdegree diminished 28 % last year. The inscription of foreign students failed for the first time in three decades, but it increased to a great extent in Europe and China. Last year, the number of Chinese graduates in The United States diminished 56 %, Hindúes 51 %, Surcoreanos 28 % (NYT, 21/12/2004). Already we are not any more the site to where they all want to go.

-The World Organization of the Health " positions to the countries of the world depending on his global behavior as for health, and the United States remained located in the position Nº37. Being just persons, as for the care of the health, we are in the place N º 54. "
The irony is that the United States spend more in care of the health, per capita, that any other nation of the world " (The European Dream, pp.79-80).

-The United States and South Africa are the only countries developed of the world that do not provide care of the health for all the citizens. (The European Dream, p.80). Pardon, but from when is South Africa a developed country?

-The mistake of coverage of health causes 18.000 Americans' deaths for year (this is equivalent to 6 times the number of persons murdered on September 11) (NYT, 12/01/2005.)

The index of infantile poverty places to the United States in the position Nº22, that is to say, in the penultimate position, between the developed countries. Only Mexico is located for below ". (The European Dream, p.81).

--Twelve million American families (more than 10 % of the set of the United States), they continue in the fight, not always successful, for feeding. The families that, in effect, members had with some degree of malnutrition last year, come to 3,9 millions. (NYT, 22/11/2004).

-The United States locate in the position Nº41 of the world as for infant mortality. Cuba is above. (NYT, 12/01/2005).

-The American women have some more 70 % of probabilities of dying in the childbirth respect of the Europeans. (NYT, 12/01/2005).

-The principal reason of women's death embarrassed in this country is the murder. (CNN, 14/12/2004).

-Of 20 countries most developed of the world, the United States stayed in the last place as for the growth of the index of total compensation by force of work in ' 80. In ' 90, the average of the index of total compensation, it grew scarcely 0,1 % per year. (The European Dream, p.39). Nevertheless, the American workers work more hours for year that in any other industrialized country and they have fewer days of vacations.

-61 of 140 bigger companies of Global Fortune 500 Ranking, are European, whereas only 50 are American . (The European Dream, p.66). In a recent survey produced by Global Finance, of 50 better companies of the world, only one was not European. (The European Dream, p.69).

-At present, fourteen of twenty more important commercial banks of the world are European. In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world leader, and of six better competitors, three are European. In engineering and construction, of five more important companies, three are European.

-Other two are Japanese. Of nine better companies of engineering and construction, none is American. Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, are in the first and second place in the world, respectively. In the business of the food and the retailing, two European companies they occupy the first place, are five the European companies that are included in better ten o'clock, and only four of this list are American companies. " (The European Dream, p.68).

-The United States have lost, in the last decade, 1.3 million working places, absorbed by China. (CNN, 12/01/2005)

-American employers have eliminated 1 million working places in the year 2004. (The Week, 14/01/2005).

-3 million 600 thousand Americans have remained excluded from the assurance of unemployment last year, whereas 1 million 800 thousand (one of five) unemployed do not have work for any more than 6 months (NYT, 9/01/2005).

-Japan, China, Taiwan and South Korea possess 40 % of our governmental debt (because of it is that we speak well about them). Supporting without you lift the costs of the mortgages, China has recovered a role very important and little spread in the maintenance of the boom of the American housing. (NYT, 4/12/2004).

-Read this again: we owe our boom of housing to him to China, because they want that continue buying them all those products that make.

-In some moment, in next 10 years, Brazil probably surpasses to the United States turning into the biggest agricultural producer. Nowadays, Brazil is the major exporter of chickens, juice of orange, sugar, coffee and tobacco. Last year, it exceeded to the United States obtaining the first position as producer of bovine meat. (Hear this, credulous denim poor). As consequence, while we were loading with a trade deficit without precedents, Brazil was showing a surplus of 30 billion dollars. (NYT, 12/12/2004).

-In last July, the United States imported more food the one that they exported. (NYT, 12/12/2004).

-Bush obtained 62.027.582 votes. Kerry, 59.026.003 votes. The number of persons in conditions to vote that they were not present at the act were 79.279,000 (NYT, 26/12/2004). It belongs more than the third part to the population. And it is more. If more of the third part of the Iraqis is not going to be voted by them, no country of the world is going to think that it was a legitimate election.

-A third of the whole of American children they are extramarital. The half of the whole of American children lives in houses monoparentales. (CNN, 10/12/2004).

-The Americans consume more money in the game that in cinema, videos, DVDs, music and united books ". (The European Dream, p.28).

-Almost one of every four Americans believes that it is admissible to use the violence to obtain that one that is wished. (The European Dream, p.32).

-43 % of the Americans thinks that the torture, sometimes, is justified, according to PEW Poll. (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004)

-In the year 2002, near 900.000 American children they received ill-treatment or were desatendidos; the information for the last year is hanging. (USA Today, 21/12/2004)

-The Chiefs' International Association of Police announced that the adjustments effected by the administration Bush, as for the federal help destined for the police local organisms, have stopped to the nation more vulnerable than never. " (USA Today, 17/11/2004).

N º 1? Respect of the most important categories, already we are not even among the best 10. We are not even nearby. The United States occupy the first place in the world only in armament, consumerism, debt and autodeception.

Michael Ventura
American journalist

++++++

Really is USA OK? HAHAHAHAHA :hm <--- Dont worry you have your flag...
 

shuamort

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walvaro said:
The United States occupy the first place in the world only in armament, consumerism, debt and autodeception.
Really? Number one in the world in autodeception? If that were a real word I'd be proud!
 
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