Selling a cake to someone does not equal giving up your own beliefs or change how you think. If you sell a shirt a Muslim wears to their Mosque does that make you a Muslim? Or any less of a Christian? Does it mean you can no longer believe anything you want? No, no, and no. It means you sold him a shirt.
A business does not have individual rights. You don't have to let blacks, gays, women, or anyone else into your home. Your private residence. You don't have to talk to gay people. When you open a business though and open it up to the public there's a different set of rules.
Doing such would open them up to a libel lawsuit. Not going to happen.
The store owner said it themselves. They would not refuse service to anyone that walked into their store to buy a pizza. So yes, they were not talking about your scenario.
They can have any personal beliefs they want but wrapping it in religion is what is wrong. No one is asking someone to create a cake for a gay wedding and sign off on the marriage certificate. This is about commerce and the only versus in the bible that deal with commerce are about being fair in business to the people you trade with and your workers. There are a ton of versus regarding trading with people that you may not agree with. There's no verse that says "You can not trade cloth that will be used to worship an idol" but plenty of the Jews trading with other groups.
That is not what she said at all. In fact, the owner said that if a gay person came into their restaurant and asked them to "provide" pizza for their wedding, they would have to refuse. They didn't mention what everyone is assuming catering to be here. There is no way to fit a group that could eat 20 pizzas in that small little place. So those pizzas would be to go. She, the owner, was talking about the situation I described.
And no, the reporter would not be libel for slander, because what I described is a form of catering. The food providers do not have to be present at the event or even deliver the food to the actual event to be considered "catering" the event.
Good morning, Kal'Stang. :2wave:
I know. It's just unreal to me that the discussion about "rights" on this topic have deteriorated to this point in our Country. Emotion, rather than logic, seems to have taken over on what should be a dry legal matter. Maybe that's how things get handled these days, on both sides of the coin - create chaos to get attention. When I see the "pushback" that is taking place with the financial outpouring for the pizzeria, it appears that both sides are digging in their heels to show where they stand. What's next?
I would disagree - they can hold whatever personal beliefs they may, religious or otherwise. Personally, I have no problem with catering a gay wedding, but I respect those who prefer not to. That doesn't mean I agree with them, but I'll continue to respect deeply held personal beliefs regardless of the consequences. I am a Christian, and I don't believe I am responsible for the doings of others. I don't judge them and I'm not required to answer for them. Therefore, I will respect the right of others to do as they deem fit. That doesn't constitute agreement or endorsement - just a level of tolerance I expect to be returned. Without that mutual respect and tolerance, all deals are off.
Some do, like the PastafariansSo basically, anyone can start a religion with any set of rules, and those would be legit religious values?
When the reporter stated "while the owners say" that means that the owners are being quoted. If a reporter changes that quote then they can be sued for libel. (which is different from slander by the by).
So give them your money to make a point? I don't understand that line of thinking. If it's a politician, a charity, or a preacher it makes sense.
By this logic, I can have a profitable business by simply claiming I won't serve gays and then moan about how the ebil libruls are ruining me.
Ahh yes, the old "liberals love Muslims" meme.
Also, do people really still believe the Fox News version of that "give them jobs" deal? Really? You never actually bothered to go watch the actual video and see what was actually said? Weren't you the least bit curious?
If selling someone a good or service means you can no longer believe what you want to it's a pretty irrational viewIn your opinion. Others feel differently.
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That's the goal, either bend to liberal thinking or be denied the opportunity to make a livingIn other words people are required to give up their personal beliefs and everyone must think alike in order to own a business. Thanks but no thanks. Living in such a society would be extremely boring and extremely restrictive.
No, the public never has a right to violate individual Rights.
Good morning, Kal'Stang. :2wave:
I know. It's just unreal to me that the discussion about "rights" on this topic have deteriorated to this point in our Country. Emotion, rather than logic, seems to have taken over on what should be a dry legal matter. Maybe that's how things get handled these days, on both sides of the coin - create chaos to get attention. When I see the "pushback" that is taking place with the financial outpouring for the pizzeria, it appears that both sides are digging in their heels to show where they stand. What's next?
Sure it has an accepted definition, but you seem not to realize that both sides are bigoted. This "I'm intolerant of the intolerant" philosophy of the left wing would be laughable if it wasn't so damaging.
The owner states their deeply held religious beliefs and the response from the left is to destroy, nothing even hinting at being constructive.
Ahh yes, the old "liberals love Muslims" meme.
Also, do people really still believe the Fox News version of that "give them jobs" deal? Really? You never actually bothered to go watch the actual video and see what was actually said? Weren't you the least bit curious?
If selling someone a good or service means you can no longer believe what you want to it's a pretty irrational view
When the reporter stated "while the owners say" that means that the owners are being quoted. If a reporter changes that quote then they can be sued for libel. (which is different from slander by the by).
What? Do you think that gay's don't like pizza or something? Yeah, you are definitely not an expert. So why say something so lacking in knowledge? Personally I'm all for gays having a pizza party on their wedding day. To any business that wants to cater it. But I don't believe in forcing anyone to serve anyone else either. This is not the 1200's. We don't live a serf life.
Liberals don't say much about Muslims because if they treated Muslims like they do Christians, they'd get themselves killed.
I wasn't. Besides, it's old news. According to this administration, old news doesn't count.
But the owner didn't state his religious beliefs - the owner stated an intention to discriminate, which you don't have to have any modifiers to know that I mean to deny service to someone because of their sexual orientation. It she's said, "I don't mind serving anyone of any race in my restaurant, but I won't cater interracial weddings" what is the appropriate interpretation?
And gays would die a horrible death.....
Yes actually they did state their religious beliefs. And it is that religious belief that is the reasoning behind their discrimination.
Yes it is a pretty irrational view. So why force people to go against what they believe?
Liberals don't say much about Muslims because if they treated Muslims like they do Christians, they'd get themselves killed.
<snip>
I love the CON spin you attempt. no one said gays don't like pizza- did say who would cater a wedding with pizza... :doh
This isn't the 1200's nor is it the 1950's where entire blocks of people can be refused service because your rather warped interpretation of a religion is used to cover bigotry. I doubt even the most warped CON could really claim a small business owner is a serf... a lack of knowledge I'd say... if the 21st century has a serf equiv it might be more the minimum wage earner than a pizza shop owner...eace
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