In this case, I am more looking at the reasons/claims as to why the consent should be explicit, as opposed to what the actual situation is. Hell, Some of these people would claim assault even if I have prior verbal consent to wake her with sex, that it is still rape because she doesn't have the change to withdraw it.
Sounds like a you problem then, not a societal one.
Did it occur to you that maybe I am on the fence about this one, and am looking for opinions and reasons to decide my own position? Also I never gave an anecdotal argument towards either position. You made the claim that the idea did not come from woman and I pointed out that a woman is indeed the one who presented me with the idea first. That's not an anecdotal argument towards either position. You're just pissed that a woman actually came up with the idea on her own.
Verbal consent? Not needed. Me asking can be...we're laying in bed, I have my arm over her, then I decided to play with her nipples before heading south. And her saying no is as simple as rolling over.
Not a problem for me personally. Being part of the BDSM and Poly communities, communication and consent are foundation level concepts. Not that everything we do is obviously consented to by outsiders, but that's their problem, not ours. A concept does not have to affect me directly for me to have an opinion or wish to explore it. I could honestly come up with dozens of arguments for both side of the argument. But I am still interested in what others think and why. Who knows, someone might come up with something I never thought of.
No one outside BDSM, true. And even within, there is always prior consent.
I'm not ripping into others for their opinions on the matter, just asking questions. The only ripping I have done is where people are either saying things I already said as if they counter something, or are trying to make something that can happen with any sex/gender combination into something that only men do. Slamming that type of misconstruing of my OP can happen regardless of which side of the issue I am on. I mean early on someone said no implied consent can't exist because they have to have the ability to not give or withdraw consent, even though I specifically said that implied consent does not mean an inability to withdraw consent.
I would imagine that BDSM and poly relationships are different than a typical marriage.
One spouse should recognize that another spouse may not be in the mood and not force that spouse to “take one for the team”.
Her spreading her legs and pulling down her underwear is pretty explicit.
I wouldn't say so. I think there is a default expectation that a marriage will include some form of sexual aspect but exactly when, how, how often and how it would be initiated would still need to be agreed by the people involved and it is perfectly possible and valid that they agree that is never (from the start or at any point in the marriage).
) and even if the response was a "Not now!", I don't think anyone would consider it inappropriate, certainly not illegal. Doing the same the morning after a one-night stand could be pushing the line. Doing it to someone you've never had any kind of romantic or sexual relationship with would be right out.
debatepolitics.com
If you are in a regular intimate relationship it is different than the first time with someone. My BF knows by my non-verbal and sometimes auditory response if I am interested. I know the same about him.
That a person can legally apply for divorce on the fact that a partner failed to have sex with them. Would suggest a legal requirement to have sex.
Not according to the ones who are making the claims. One woman was at a protest nude save for shorts and tape over her nipples (and maybe shoes) with the words on her torso, "Still not asking for it".
It's the claim of those wanting explicit consent ...I'm sorry, Explicit Enthusiastic Consent each and every time, even in marriage.
I agree, but that doesn't really touch on the topic. One would hope that by the time you marry it's a regular intimate relationship. KNowing your cues is still not an excuse for not getting consent though is it? Would you let a man get away with the excuse of cues? "I didn't rape her. She was giving me all the cues. Her dress, her flirting, nuzzling up to me. She never said 'no' or 'stop', for which I would have stopped." Serious? You would let that go?
Why not? Can not two people get to know each other that they need not be explicit in expressing their consent? Thus the consent is implicit or implied? Who are you to tell me that I can not have implied consent with my wives and GF's?
