I'm Pro-Life: Change My Mind

[code1211]

PLEASANT?

What a way to describe the horrible torture and killing of a human.
Very few people find personally killing the chicken they're going to eat to be......... "pleasant."


Imho.....for all the leftist talks about compassion and inclusivity.....and, charity and empathy......then, you see a comment like that....

.........................it feels like listening to a Ted Bundy.




Something's terribly broken with people who support abortion.

I FEEL that abortion is a societal necessity. It is also a societal tragedy and a personal horror.

IF the society had a good and beneficial method to care for the unwanted babies, THEN I would be against it.

As it currently stands, abortion, while detestable and obviously the ending of a human life, is as needed in the society as capital punishment and life long imprisonment.

 

[code1211]

I'm going to respond to the numbers for Canada (my country). Though we have fewer ICU beds per population and spend less per capita, we have a longer life expectancy. That could be due to a healthier population due to universal health care. Everyone can access preventive medicine. Diabetics aren't dying because they are rationing insulin due to high cost etc.

Thank you for the link.

I had dinner with a person from Ethiopia who noted that he could NOW understand why all Americans are so fat. Our food is DELICIOUS! ALL of it!

He was not trying to offend, but it was pretty funny. He seemed confused that everyone laughed. They eat to live. We live to eat.

Anyway, obesity is likely the biggest killer in the US. We also seem to like to add plenty of stress to our lives and do so with consistency.

Regarding the cost of medicines in the US, our Congress, bought and paid for by anyone with lots-o-cash accepts the cash from Big Pharma.

Bernie campaigns against Big Pharma in election years and takes the bribes the rest of the time.

All in all though, I have had a pretty good life in this country that I'm am told is horrible. I guess I'm just lucky.

If things get too bad, maybe I'll walk to Venezuela and seek asylum there.

 

[code1211]

See post 989#

Societal expediancies vs. personal responsibility and duties.

Of course there is a conflict. Lawyers are involved.

 

[code1211]

So you are saying that you can not think of even one good reason to care about human life. It's al just emotional pleading rather than good reasoning.

No, your insurance companies main objective is to create profit for its shareholders. That would be the same for pharmacies.

Regarding human life, i was not agreeing with your dismissal of the value of human life- just accepting it as your postion.

ALL businesses exist to produce profits. That is the definition of business.

No profit means no existence.

Are you asserting that ceasing to exist should be the goal of businesses?

 

[soylentgreen]

Societal expediancies vs. personal responsibility and duties.

Of course there is a conflict. Lawyers are involved.

That is not an answer. Your dodging the question of why you think women have a right to an abortion while also claiming it is a bad thing to do. Apparently you support bad things happening, why is that?

 

[soylentgreen]

Regarding human life, i was not agreeing with your dismissal of the value of human life- just accepting it as your postion.

ALL businesses exist to produce profits. That is the definition of business.

No profit means no existence.

Are you asserting that ceasing to exist should be the goal of businesses?

I have given no such dismissal . Rather your the one who argued that a fetus has no rights and I was the one who gave you the link that showed they do have rights.

If your arguing that health care can only exist if it created a profit then as I pointed out you have a tiered system of health delivery where the poor who need it the most get the least. The example of that would be the link I gave showing that women are more likely to die from a pregnancy in america than other 1st world countries. There is no profit to be had from a pregnancy.

 

[tosca1]

That never happened in america so no worries

I just gave you an example that human laws can change.


Another example: capital punishment.
How many US states still give the death penalty?


.....bye for now.

 

[tosca1]

If you want to debate with me, please stop w/ the coloured huge fonts. Thanks.

You don't have to debate with me.
I'm just responding to your post. Take it, or leave it.


<singing>
Don't go changing.......to try and please me......
You never let me down before
Don't imagine you're too familiar
And I don't see you anymore

 

[tosca1]

I FEEL that abortion is a societal necessity. It is also a societal tragedy and a personal horror.

IF the society had a good and beneficial method to care for the unwanted babies, THEN I would be against it.

As it currently stands, abortion, while detestable and obviously the ending of a human life, is as needed in the society as capital punishment and life long imprisonment.

Not from a Christian standpoint!
This isn't about how we "feel."
God never consulted us how His rules ought to be played. I don't remember being surveyed for our input.

How do you think the fetus feels about abortion if he can talk?
It'd be like asking a person with dementia how she feels about getting so-called, "euthanized?"


Murder (abortion)....... and, punishment, are not comparable.
You're comparing an innocent with a criminal.


Who's actually deserving of punishment here?
The innocent.................. or those who plot the murder of the innocent? Those who do the actual deed?


Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.


Proverbs 16:30
He who winks his eyes does so to devise perverse things;
He who compresses his lips brings evil to pass.


Micah 2:1
Woe to those who devise wickedness and work evil on their beds! When the morning dawns, they perform it, because it is in the power of their hand.


John 8: 44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.




Murder is against the Laws of God.
Protecting the innocent and vulnerable (especially the most vulnerable), is biblical.

Capital punishment is biblical.

 

[tosca1]

I FEEL that abortion is a societal necessity. It is also a societal tragedy and a personal horror.

IF the society had a good and beneficial method to care for the unwanted babies, THEN I would be against it.

As it currently stands, abortion, while detestable and obviously the ending of a human Jew's life, is as needed in the society as capital punishment and life long imprisonment.

Who plays God to decide who deserves to live or die?


..........that's how Hitler rationalized, and convinced his supporters about annihilating the Jews from this earth.
The same way the plotters for the murder of Jesus rationalized their evil intention.


Where did that "rationalization" come from? Who sow that thought - that idea - that murder is okay?

 

[tosca1]

As it currently stands, abortion, while detestable and obviously the ending of a human life, is as needed in the society

I'm curious - what makes it "needed?"
Of course, I'm assuming that you're a Christian. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What are your reasons for this justification?

 

[code1211]

That is not an answer. Your dodging the question of why you think women have a right to an abortion while also claiming it is a bad thing to do. Apparently you support bad things happening, why is that?

Of course I do. Don't you?

I FEEL that it's bad to have people in jail. However, I FEEL that society can only function if evil doers are removed.

Things that are intrinsically bad to inflict on any individual are required for the society to function.

Why is this difficult for you to understand?

 

[code1211]

I have given no such dismissal . Rather your the one who argued that a fetus has no rights and I was the one who gave you the link that showed they do have rights.

If your arguing that health care can only exist if it created a profit then as I pointed out you have a tiered system of health delivery where the poor who need it the most get the least. The example of that would be the link I gave showing that women are more likely to die from a pregnancy in america than other 1st world countries. There is no profit to be had from a pregnancy.

Last night I saw the joyful emergence from a hospital of a 15 month old baby born prematurely at the weight of one pound.

The medical bills for that would have been impossible for the young couple to have paid. Still the care was given.

Your impressions are simply wrong.

Regarding the comparison of international statistics, the Covid Stats reveal very well the errors these contain.

Statistics are gathered using different methodologies. The results indicate only that the methodologies differ.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Not from a Christian standpoint!
This isn't about how we "feel."
God never consulted us how His rules ought to be played. I don't remember being surveyed for our input.

How do you think the fetus feels about abortion if he can talk?
It'd be like asking a person with dementia how she feels about getting so-called, "euthanized?"


Murder (abortion)....... and, punishment, are not comparable.
You're comparing an innocent with a criminal.


Who's actually deserving of punishment here?
The innocent.................. or those who plot the murder of the innocent? Those who do the actual deed?


Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.


Proverbs 16:30
He who winks his eyes does so to devise perverse things;
He who compresses his lips brings evil to pass.


Micah 2:1
Woe to those who devise wickedness and work evil on their beds! When the morning dawns, they perform it, because it is in the power of their hand.


John 8: 44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.




Murder is against the Laws of God.
Protecting the innocent and vulnerable (especially the most vulnerable), is biblical.

Capital punishment is biblical.

Abortion is not murder. FACT. God does not prohibit a woman from terminating her pregnancy. FACT.

 

[code1211]

Not from a Christian standpoint!
This isn't about how we "feel."
God never consulted us how His rules ought to be played. I don't remember being surveyed for our input.

How do you think the fetus feels about abortion if he can talk?
It'd be like asking a person with dementia how she feels about getting so-called, "euthanized?"


Murder (abortion)....... and, punishment, are not comparable.
You're comparing an innocent with a criminal.


Who's actually deserving of punishment here?
The innocent.................. or those who plot the murder of the innocent? Those who do the actual deed?


Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.


Proverbs 16:30
He who winks his eyes does so to devise perverse things;
He who compresses his lips brings evil to pass.


Micah 2:1
Woe to those who devise wickedness and work evil on their beds! When the morning dawns, they perform it, because it is in the power of their hand.


John 8: 44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.




Murder is against the Laws of God.
Protecting the innocent and vulnerable (especially the most vulnerable), is biblical.

Capital punishment is biblical.

All of that is well and good.

However, in our society, we have laid the exclusive responsibility to care for children who are the products of unwanted pregnancies on the mother.

I am not the one who made that rule.

I am also not in possession of the ability or the wherewithal to care for the children of unwanted pregnancies and raise them in loving and nurturing homes.

Therefore, I maintain that this is a horrifying choice to lay on the often young women who are charged to make it, but I don't see a more appropriate method.

Do you?

 

[code1211]

Who plays God to decide who deserves to live or die?


..........that's how Hitler rationalized, and convinced his supporters about annihilating the Jews from this earth.
The same way the plotters for the murder of Jesus rationalized their evil intention.


Where did that "rationalization" come from? Who sow that thought - that idea - that murder is okay?

I don't hate the unborn.

Murder is NEVER okay. When it is used as a solution, Final or otherwise, it should be considered for every individual affected with the most reverent and somber deliberation.

 

[code1211]

I'm curious - what makes it "needed?"
Of course, I'm assuming that you're a Christian. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What are your reasons for this justification?

As a society, we have assigned the responsibility to care for the unwanted child that is the result of an unwanted pregnancy to the mother.

Since the society assigns this responsibility, is is "owned" by the mother.

When you assume ownership of that responsibility, the choice will be yours.

Societal rules are different than individual rules. This is apparent in almost everything we do and believe.

A great example was George Patton. He employed very similar rules of conduct whether he was on a battle or in a field hospital.

On the battlefield, his conduct was revered. In the hospital, condemned. Same man. Same code of ethics. Different setting.

What works on the individual level does not always work on the societal level.

 

[tosca1]

Abortion is not murder. FACT.

FACT:

Abortion is the deliberate, intentional killing of a human being.

That, defines MURDER.

God does not prohibit a woman from terminating her pregnancy. FACT.

Exodus 20

13 “You shall not murder."

 

[tosca1]

All of that is well and good.

However, in our society, we have laid the exclusive responsibility to care for children who are the products of unwanted pregnancies on the mother.

I am not the one who made that rule.

WHO MADE THAT RULE?

I am also not in possession of the ability or the wherewithal to care for the children of unwanted pregnancies and raise them in loving and nurturing homes.

Therefore, I maintain that this is a horrifying choice to lay on the often young women who are charged to make it, but I don't see a more appropriate method.

Do you?

Women have had their choice. ESPECIALLY TODAY!
Many choose the wrong one.
We've all made choices in our lives. And we live with the consequences of those choices.
That's life!

What makes women above everyone that we make it justifiable for them to murder their own?



A lot of men and women were raised by single parents - some grew up in an orphanage - and they turned out well.
Not all of them became Kennedys or Rockefellers, not all of them became celebrities and top athletes - most of them led ordinary lives - they struggled like the rest of us. What's wrong with that?


Furthermore......why is it more favorable to snuff out a life than giving him a chance at life.
Life can - and is - enjoyed by everyone.
Your enjoyment of life doesn't have to be the same as that of someone who has everything, or who earns a regular salary.
You can't define what happiness or enjoyment of life is. It differs along with how we look at things.

It's not up to us to play "GOD."

 

[tosca1]

I don't hate the unborn.

Murder is NEVER okay. When it is used as a solution, Final or otherwise, it should be considered for every individual affected with the most reverent and somber deliberation.

You don't have to hate the unborn.

I suppose we can describe is as more of being .......indifferent (to say the least).
Kinda like a Pontius Pilate attitude - washing your hands off them, and going along with what others say? And, more.
Justifying it to yourself.

Which makes it even more.......tragic (for lack of better words).

Perhaps it would've been more understandable if you said you hated them.........

............rather than simply giving in, and conforming to what can only have been inspired by Satan.



Which begs the question: What happened to trust in God? Reliance on Him? Dependence?



If we automatically write off a human being based on the circumstances of which he's borne -
perhaps we can all petition the UN to kill all African children?
OFF COURSE - we do it after some serious, most reverent somber reflection.
We can even pray for the children............... and devote a day - even make it a holiday - as a loving remembrance to that fateful day.

And....while we're on a roll - maybe, we give the green light to parents to kill-off their mentally-challenged kids?
The physically-handicapped? we don't even have to call it a "killing."
Maybe, we can even come up with a kind term for it, like, "send off to paradise?"
I'd hate to think what kind of life await them all.

Like the unwanted unborn........................ you're saying, they're all better off dead, right?

 

[AGENT J]

I just gave you an example that human laws can change.

.....bye for now.

Nope like i said your claim " We just saw that happened when the unborn was stripped of his rights as a human being."
never happen in america LOL

 

[AGENT J]

FACT:
Abortion is the deliberate, intentional killing of a human being.
defines MURDER.

no matter how many times you repeat this lie . . . .
it will never . . ever . . be true.

Abortion is factually not equal to murder based on facts, definition and science etc LMAO

 

[Scrabaholic]

FACT:

Abortion is the deliberate, intentional killing of a human being.

That, defines MURDER.

Exodus 20

13 “You shall not murder."

Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a human being.

1. Abortion is legal
2. the zef is not a human being

FACT

 

[tosca1]

Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a human being.

1. Abortion is legal
2. the zef is not a human being

FACT

That's where you're dead wrong!



Believe what you want!
However.....

......there's no mature discussion if you're simply going to insist on using your personal opinion - a wrong opinion at that - as an argument.



I don't care what you think. I don't care about your opinion.
So, there.

 

[tosca1]

I am also not in possession of the ability or the wherewithal to care for the children of unwanted pregnancies and raise them in loving and nurturing homes.

It just occurred to me.....that would apply to orphaned children.

It's not our society's decision for parents to have children.
Since children are the responsibilities of parents.....
.....we can terminate children who suddenly found themselves orphaned, for that very same reason.