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Illegals are NOT "Immigrants"

Ontologuy

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"We are freedom fighters, liberating the world from the Great Satan." ~ the group Al Qaeda, taking credit for 9/11.

"They are criminals, terrorists of the worst magnitude." ~ U.S. Officials, responding to the 9/11 attackers' admission of responsibility.

So .. who's right? Are those who hijacked planes, killing their pilots, ramming them into American buildings killing thousands, are they "freedom fighters" or are they "criminals"?

Objectively, they simply can't be both, so, which is it: "freedom fighters" .. or .. "criminals"?

Some would say that "objectively" doesn't matter, that it's all subjective interpretation, depending on whose side you're on, or depending on your political ideology.

Still, we live today in a progressed civilized world of nations with boundaries and laws that are pretty much universally recognized as the legitimate calibration of determination in such matters, and that's reality.

Thus it doesn't really matter what's in someone's head as to what they or others think or imagine they are, what matters is the behavior itself of the people in question, what they actually did do; what matters, is what they did and to whom, without any ideological, interpretive, apologetic, or excuse spin.

And what those people did was to invade America and attack and destroy and kill, in violation of American laws, that's what they did, making their behavior, without question, a criminal act, no matter what was in their minds at the time.

So ..

.. A man travels thousands of miles towards the U.S. and sneaks across the border into the U.S. without required authorized permission. He finds a house where others who have snuck into America are living and takes up a corner of the living room to reside. He then seeks out a criminal operation that forges identities, some identities stolen from deceased/living U.S. citizens, and procures one. He brought his seven-year-old son with him, and procures a forged identity for him too and enrolls him in an American school. He's running out of money, so the next morning he stands in front of a major home and building improvement store with others of similar behavior, and waits for someone to hire him for piecemeal work, which someone does. He takes turns at his domicile driving the shared car to obtain supplies for all.

Is this man an "immigrant" .. or .. is he a "criminal"?

Which one is it?

He can't rightly with respect to reality be both.

To determine what he is, we must examine his behavior, we must look only at what he actually did do, without any ideological, interpretive, apologetic, or excuse spin.

1. The man trespassed onto American soil, a violation of American law.
2. The man purchased a fake ID, a violation of American law.
3. The man placed his son in an American school under false pretenses, stealing a limited-numbers seat in the class from those legally authorized to that seat, a violation of local American law, making his son an accomplice in his crimes and thus a criminal too.
4. The man obtained work for pay in an illegitimate fashion, a violation of American law.
5. The man is violating local American law of building codes, participating in violation of maximum occupancy where he is living.
6. The man is violating local American law of driving without a driver's license.
7. The man brought his child with him in the committing of illegal activities, thus committing child endangerment, a violation of American law.

His justification for his criminal behavior against specific American citizens and others legally entitled? He says he's an "immigrant". That's it. He says that he's an "immigrant", and to him, that justifies what he did, the crimes he committed.

So .. is he an "immigrant", as he says, as he thinks or imagines in his mind .. or .. is he a "criminal" as his behavior reflects? He simply can't rightly be both.

His acts, his behavior, clearly makes him a criminal.

And, why is he not an "immigrant"?

Because an immigrant to America is someone whose behavior accurately identifies him as an immigrant, someone who before he came to America filed papers through his country of origin with American officials applying for immigration to the U.S., appropriately waited his turn in line for American resources to become available, received authorization to come to America, came to America and entered the country through proper official pathways, to legally participate in activities in America. That's what an immigrant is. A similarly legal path for people on work visas also exists. This is all different from legal asylum, which has different qualifying criteria.

But, this man did none of that.

And bringing his child here with him does not add to his claim of being an "immigrant", it actually detracts from it.

It doesn't matter what's in the man's mind, that he may think or imagine himself to be an "immigrant", even whether or not he knows he's committing multiple crimes against the American citizenry.

And, it also doesn't matter how many others committing the same behaviors are also thinking or imagining in their minds what they are.

And, it most certainly doesn't matter what political ideologues want to think or imagine in their minds about it for their utilitarian political power-play agenda.

No, what matters is his behavior, what he actually did do.

He didn't do behaviors that made him an "immigrant".

He did do behaviors that made him a criminal.

That's all that matters.

Clearly, and without rational conjecture, the 20 million people who have trespassed onto American land, procured forged identities, stolen Americans' jobs/classrooms/road space/living space/other Americans' resources .. are criminals, and they are simply not "immigrants".

And some of them have added terrorism, drug-running, human-trafficking, and other crimes to their list of criminal behaviors.

Therefore they should rightly receive criminal prosecution for their crimes .. just as Al Qaeda should rightly receive their just rewards as criminals.

Thus the so-called "immigration" bill before the House is an obvious absolute farce, an ideological, interpretive, apologetic excuse spin, born out of a blatant vote-pandering effort that attempts a great egregious injustice to American citizens and legal immigrants: the completely unjustified amnesty and legalization of criminals, without ever bringing those criminals to trial and conviction to make them pay for their crimes and return their ill-gotten gains to their rightful American owners.

The "Gang of Eight" and other supporters of this bill are exhibiting the worst treasonous betrayal of the American citizens who elected them to enact and safeguard liberty and justice for all Americans, making this "Gang of Eight" and their supporters the worst traitors to Americans since Benedict Arnold himself!

Clearly this misnomered "immigration" bill is a great wrong, a great violation of justice for all American citizens, as the 20 million illegals, their rightful and accurate name, are criminals, not immigrants, as they are rightly indicted by their behavior, not what's in their mind.

If a man hates someone and thinks thoughts of murdering that person but doesn't speak or act it out, can he be brought to trial and convicted of murder?

Of course not.

It doesn't matter what is in the man's mind as to what he is.

It matters only what he actually does and to whom that convicts him.

The 20 million illegals are simply not "immigrants" even if they ideologically, interpretively, apologetically, employ excuse-spin in their minds in an attempt to erroneously "justify" their crimes against America and its citizens.

Their behavior clearly makes them mere criminals, and nothing more ..

.. Obviously.
 
Perhaps the term simply implies immigrants who arrived and established themselves illegally? And the semantics stop there?
 
Sure they are.

The term immigrant is defined as:

im·mi·grant
[im-i-gruhnt]
noun
1. a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.

2. an organism found in a new habitat.

Whether or not they are wherever they are legally or not is irrelevant.
 
"We are freedom fighters, liberating the world from the Great Satan." ~ the group Al Qaeda, taking credit for 9/11.

"They are criminals, terrorists of the worst magnitude." ~ U.S. Officials, responding to the 9/11 attackers' admission of responsibility.

So .. who's right? Are those who hijacked planes, killing their pilots, ramming them into American buildings killing thousands, are they "freedom fighters" or are they "criminals"?

Objectively, they simply can't be both, so, which is it: "freedom fighters" .. or .. "criminals"?

Some would say that "objectively" doesn't matter, that it's all subjective interpretation, depending on whose side you're on, or depending on your political ideology.

Still, we live today in a progressed civilized world of nations with boundaries and laws that are pretty much universally recognized as the legitimate calibration of determination in such matters, and that's reality.

Thus it doesn't really matter what's in someone's head as to what they or others think or imagine they are, what matters is the behavior itself of the people in question, what they actually did do; what matters, is what they did and to whom, without any ideological, interpretive, apologetic, or excuse spin.

And what those people did was to invade America and attack and destroy and kill, in violation of American laws, that's what they did, making their behavior, without question, a criminal act, no matter what was in their minds at the time.

So ..

.. A man travels thousands of miles towards the U.S. and sneaks across the border into the U.S. without required authorized permission. He finds a house where others who have snuck into America are living and takes up a corner of the living room to reside. He then seeks out a criminal operation that forges identities, some identities stolen from deceased/living U.S. citizens, and procures one. He brought his seven-year-old son with him, and procures a forged identity for him too and enrolls him in an American school. He's running out of money, so the next morning he stands in front of a major home and building improvement store with others of similar behavior, and waits for someone to hire him for piecemeal work, which someone does. He takes turns at his domicile driving the shared car to obtain supplies for all.

Is this man an "immigrant" .. or .. is he a "criminal"?

Which one is it?

He can't rightly with respect to reality be both.

To determine what he is, we must examine his behavior, we must look only at what he actually did do, without any ideological, interpretive, apologetic, or excuse spin.

1. The man trespassed onto American soil, a violation of American law.
2. The man purchased a fake ID, a violation of American law.
3. The man placed his son in an American school under false pretenses, stealing a limited-numbers seat in the class from those legally authorized to that seat, a violation of local American law, making his son an accomplice in his crimes and thus a criminal too.
4. The man obtained work for pay in an illegitimate fashion, a violation of American law.
5. The man is violating local American law of building codes, participating in violation of maximum occupancy where he is living.
6. The man is violating local American law of driving without a driver's license.
7. The man brought his child with him in the committing of illegal activities, thus committing child endangerment, a violation of American law.

His justification for his criminal behavior against specific American citizens and others legally entitled? He says he's an "immigrant". That's it. He says that he's an "immigrant", and to him, that justifies what he did, the crimes he committed.

So .. is he an "immigrant", as he says, as he thinks or imagines in his mind .. or .. is he a "criminal" as his behavior reflects? He simply can't rightly be both.

His acts, his behavior, clearly makes him a criminal.

And, why is he not an "immigrant"?

Because an immigrant to America is someone whose behavior accurately identifies him as an immigrant, someone who before he came to America filed papers through his country of origin with American officials applying for immigration to the U.S., appropriately waited his turn in line for American resources to become available, received authorization to come to America, came to America and entered the country through proper official pathways, to legally participate in activities in America. That's what an immigrant is. A similarly legal path for people on work visas also exists. This is all different from legal asylum, which has different qualifying criteria.

But, this man did none of that.

And bringing his child here with him does not add to his claim of being an "immigrant", it actually detracts from it.

It doesn't matter what's in the man's mind, that he may think or imagine himself to be an "immigrant", even whether or not he knows he's committing multiple crimes against the American citizenry.

And, it also doesn't matter how many others committing the same behaviors are also thinking or imagining in their minds what they are.

And, it most certainly doesn't matter what political ideologues want to think or imagine in their minds about it for their utilitarian political power-play agenda.

No, what matters is his behavior, what he actually did do.

He didn't do behaviors that made him an "immigrant".

He did do behaviors that made him a criminal.

That's all that matters.

Clearly, and without rational conjecture, the 20 million people who have trespassed onto American land, procured forged identities, stolen Americans' jobs/classrooms/road space/living space/other Americans' resources .. are criminals, and they are simply not "immigrants".

And some of them have added terrorism, drug-running, human-trafficking, and other crimes to their list of criminal behaviors.

Therefore they should rightly receive criminal prosecution for their crimes .. just as Al Qaeda should rightly receive their just rewards as criminals.

Thus the so-called "immigration" bill before the House is an obvious absolute farce, an ideological, interpretive, apologetic excuse spin, born out of a blatant vote-pandering effort that attempts a great egregious injustice to American citizens and legal immigrants: the completely unjustified amnesty and legalization of criminals, without ever bringing those criminals to trial and conviction to make them pay for their crimes and return their ill-gotten gains to their rightful American owners.

The "Gang of Eight" and other supporters of this bill are exhibiting the worst treasonous betrayal of the American citizens who elected them to enact and safeguard liberty and justice for all Americans, making this "Gang of Eight" and their supporters the worst traitors to Americans since Benedict Arnold himself!

Clearly this misnomered "immigration" bill is a great wrong, a great violation of justice for all American citizens, as the 20 million illegals, their rightful and accurate name, are criminals, not immigrants, as they are rightly indicted by their behavior, not what's in their mind.

If a man hates someone and thinks thoughts of murdering that person but doesn't speak or act it out, can he be brought to trial and convicted of murder?

Of course not.

It doesn't matter what is in the man's mind as to what he is.

It matters only what he actually does and to whom that convicts him.

The 20 million illegals are simply not "immigrants" even if they ideologically, interpretively, apologetically, employ excuse-spin in their minds in an attempt to erroneously "justify" their crimes against America and its citizens.

Their behavior clearly makes them mere criminals, and nothing more ..

.. Obviously.

He is a criminal. There is no semantical issue here.
 
Sure they are.

The term immigrant is defined as:

im·mi·grant
[im-i-gruhnt]
noun
1. a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.

2. an organism found in a new habitat.

Whether or not they are wherever they are legally or not is irrelevant.

Ugh ok, since we are now using semantics...

"Immigrant" and "illegal immigrant" are different. It is relevant which definition the immigrant falls under.
 
Perhaps the term simply implies immigrants who arrived and established themselves illegally? And the semantics stop there?
But "immigrants who arrived and established themselves illegally" is a non-entity, an oxymoronic contradiction in terms.

Unless one engages in the behavior necessary to qualify as an immigrant to America, one is simply not an immigrant.

It really is that simple.
 
Ugh ok, since we are now using semantics...

"Immigrant" and "illegal immigrant" are different. It is relevant which definition the immigrant falls under.

Nope. Still an immigrant. The term "Illegal" is just an adjective further describing a particular immigrant.
 
Nope. Still an immigrant. The term "Illegal" is just an adjective further describing a particular immigrant.

That's why they've always been called illegal aliens in the past.
 
Nope. Still an immigrant. The term "Illegal" is just an adjective further describing a particular immigrant.

lol...

The term 'illegal' is a very important adjective, and changes the manner of one's immigration entirely. Once again, semantics where there in fact should be none.
 
lol...

The term 'illegal' is a very important adjective, and changes the manner of one's immigration entirely. Once again, semantics where there in fact should be none.

Since 'criminal' and 'immigrant' are not related in fundamental substance they cannot be aligned as opposites of each other, so the issue you bring up is one entirely of semantics. Technically one can be a criminal, an immigrant, or both. One can be an immigrant who came into the country legally, but is also a criminal for breaking a law once he arrived. One could also obviously be neither. As mentioned, calling someone an 'illegal immigrant' is just the addition of an adjective that attempts to apply condition to the persons status as an immigrant, but even in this case an immigrant can be 'illegal' without being precisely defined as one. So really the effort to more accurately refer to them as 'illegal immigrants' instead of criminals (as it more justly describes the issue that we are referring to) could technically be described as a waste of breath, ink, or effort because simply calling them immigrants would serve the same purpose as long as we all understand that we are talking about those who enter the country without following proper legal procedures in getting here, and since we would not need to discuss reforming those procedures or building a big fence in reference to those immigrants who do follow the proper avenues of admittance, I think this would be the case.

It is kind of like making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich regardless of whether it be crunchy or creamy peanut butter, or the flavor of jam. Those who wish to designate the specifics are mostly wasting their breath for the sake of advocating their preferred nuttiness.
 
Since 'criminal' and 'immigrant' are not related in fundamental substance they cannot be aligned as opposites of each other, so the issue you bring up is one entirely of semantics. Technically one can be a criminal, an immigrant, or both. One can be an immigrant who came into the country legally, but is also a criminal for breaking a law once he arrived. One could also obviously be neither. As mentioned, calling someone an 'illegal immigrant' is just the addition of an adjective that attempts to apply condition to the persons status as an immigrant, but even in this case an immigrant can be 'illegal' without being precisely defined as one. So really the effort to more accurately refer to them as 'illegal immigrants' instead of criminals (as it more justly describes the issue that we are referring to) could technically be described as a waste of breath, ink, or effort because simply calling them immigrants would serve the same purpose as long as we all understand that we are talking about those who enter the country without following proper legal procedures in getting here, and since we would not need to discuss reforming those procedures or building a big fence in reference to those immigrants who do follow the proper avenues of admittance, I think this would be the case.

It is kind of like making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich regardless of whether it be crunchy or creamy peanut butter, or the flavor of jam. Those who wish to designate the specifics are mostly wasting their breath for the sake of advocating their preferred nuttiness.

I'll skip over that technical, dense, semantical jungle of convolution and just say this:

1.)If you 'immigrate' to this country without proper documentation, you are no longer an immigrant, you are a criminal - an illegal alien.
 
I sure hope the hysterical scapegoating and xenophobia of the right continues to inform GOP rhetoric and hastens its well-deserved decline into electoral irrelevancy.
 
1.)If you 'immigrate' to this country without proper documentation, you are no longer an immigrant, you are a criminal - an illegal alien.

But that is inaccurate because you would in fact be both an immigrant and a criminal. Now if you prefer to refer to them as criminals that is totally fine with me, and if someone else prefers to refer to them as immigrants that is completely okay as well because they are in fact both and such a description would be accurate.

However, your initial point that they should not deserve the decency of being called an 'immigrant' because of their criminal behavior is really just an emotional expression of your frustration with their activities. You would be much better served in your position if you toned down the rhetoric and pushed your point without allowing for your position to be caught up by semantics or the harshness of the language you use. Coming across as hateful can easily diminish the validity of your point.
 
I'll skip over that technical, dense, semantical jungle of convolution and just say this:

1.)If you 'immigrate' to this country without proper documentation, you are no longer an immigrant, you are a criminal - an illegal alien.

Criminal culpability is determined by a court of law, not by speculation. Furthermore, the US doesn't criminally prosecute immigrants for not having proper visas. It deports them (after an administrative determination). So it's not a typical "crime". Rather it is a question of status and whether you can stay in the US or not.

The fact that the extremist, xenophobic tea party types are using the rhetoric of criminality to describe visa violation informs us on just how desperate conservatives have become.
 
Since 'criminal' and 'immigrant' are not related in fundamental substance they cannot be aligned as opposites of each other, so the issue you bring up is one entirely of semantics. Technically one can be a criminal, an immigrant, or both. One can be an immigrant who came into the country legally, but is also a criminal for breaking a law once he arrived. One could also obviously be neither. As mentioned, calling someone an 'illegal immigrant' is just the addition of an adjective that attempts to apply condition to the persons status as an immigrant, but even in this case an immigrant can be 'illegal' without being precisely defined as one. So really the effort to more accurately refer to them as 'illegal immigrants' instead of criminals (as it more justly describes the issue that we are referring to) could technically be described as a waste of breath, ink, or effort because simply calling them immigrants would serve the same purpose as long as we all understand that we are talking about those who enter the country without following proper legal procedures in getting here, and since we would not need to discuss reforming those procedures or building a big fence in reference to those immigrants who do follow the proper avenues of admittance, I think this would be the case. It is kind of like making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich regardless of whether it be crunchy or creamy peanut butter, or the flavor of jam. Those who wish to designate the specifics are mostly wasting their breath for the sake of advocating their preferred nuttiness.
Setting this obfuscation aside ..

.. Were those who came to America outside of the immigrant procedure and later flew the planes into America's buildings killing thousands, were they "immigrants"? If so, why? If not, why not? And what makes them different in their criminal behaviors from the man presented in the OP who broke seven American laws starting from the instant he set foot in America, as both didn't utilize immigrant procedures for entering America, so why would these Al Qaeda people not be "immigrants" but the man in the OP would be an "immigrant"?

In reality, neither are immigrants. They are both illegal aliens, the proper accurate term from a government perspective, "illegals" for layman's brevity's sake, and "illegal alien" does not at all imply "immigrant".

The term "legal immigrant" is a redundancy, the term "legal" added for emphasis within the context of relevant discussions to emphasize that there is a procedure to qualify as an immigrant, and if that procedure does not take place one simply does not qualify to be an immigrant at all.

Here again is the procedure that qualifies someone in America to be an immigrant: an immigrant to America is someone whose behavior accurately identifies him as an immigrant, someone who before he came to America filed papers through his country of origin with American officials applying for immigration to the U.S., appropriately waited his turn in line for American resources to become available, received authorization to come to America, came to America and entered the country through proper official pathways, to legally participate in activities in America. That's what an immigrant is. A similarly legal path for people on work visas also exists.

An immigrant is an immigrant because of his specific behavior that thereby qualifies him to be an immigrant.

There is simply no other way to be an immigrant in America.
 
I'll skip over that technical, dense, semantical jungle of convolution and just say this:

1.)If you 'immigrate' to this country without proper documentation, you are no longer an immigrant, you are a criminal - an illegal alien.

You can be both of those things. Why are you so invested in his semantic argument? What is the point of this thread?
 
However, your initial point that they should not deserve the decency of being called an 'immigrant' because of their criminal behavior is really just an emotional expression of your frustration with their activities. You would be much better served in your position if you toned down the rhetoric and pushed your point without allowing for your position to be caught up by semantics or the harshness of the language you use. Coming across as hateful can easily diminish the validity of your point.
Absolutely false on multiple counts.

If someone does not engage in the necessary behavior to qualify as an "immigrant", then they are simply not an immigrant, not in the eyes of the law, not from a common sense reality perspective.

The only one employing "emotional expression" borne of "frustration" is you, as you employed the phrase "deserve the decency...", an emotional and irrational response.

Thus the rest of your unjustified critique of his presentation is both false and leveled at a strawman.

Also, it was you who initially tried to obfuscate via a subterfuge about "semantics", so in falsely criticizing him here you are simply projecting.

As far as coming across "hateful", your implication is that you don't particularly care about justice for all American citizens wronged by the criminal illegals, which makes me wonder where your pre-conceived contempt and idealization lies.

Reality remains, it doesn't matter what you think or imagine the 20 million illegals to be.

Their own behavior indicts them as illegal aliens, illegals, and in no way can they therefore claim the status of "immigrants".

It's all about behavior that qualifies their status as illegals.
 
Absolutely false on multiple counts.

If someone does not engage in the necessary behavior to qualify as an "immigrant", then they are simply not an immigrant, not in the eyes of the law, not from a common sense reality perspective.

The only one employing "emotional expression" borne of "frustration" is you, as you employed the phrase "deserve the decency...", an emotional and irrational response.

Thus the rest of your unjustified critique of his presentation is both false and leveled at a strawman.

Also, it was you who initially tried to obfuscate via a subterfuge about "semantics", so in falsely criticizing him here you are simply projecting.

As far as coming across "hateful", your implication is that you don't particularly care about justice for all American citizens wronged by the criminal illegals, which makes me wonder where your pre-conceived contempt and idealization lies.

Reality remains, it doesn't matter what you think or imagine the 20 million illegals to be.

Their own behavior indicts them as illegal aliens, illegals, and in no way can they therefore claim the status of "immigrants".

It's all about behavior that qualifies their status as illegals.

They don't qualify as an immigrant legally, hence the additional adjective of "illegal."

Now please tell me why this is important. Why are we arguing over terminology?
 
.. Were those who came to America outside of the immigrant procedure and later flew the planes into America's buildings killing thousands, were they "immigrants"? If so, why? If not, why not? And what makes them different in their criminal behaviors from the man presented in the OP who broke seven American laws starting from the instant he set foot in America, as both didn't utilize immigrant procedures for entering America, so why would these Al Qaeda people not be "immigrants" but the man in the OP would be an "immigrant"?

In reality, neither are immigrants. They are both illegal aliens, the proper accurate term from a government perspective, "illegals" for layman's brevity's sake, and "illegal alien" does not at all imply "immigrant".

The term "legal immigrant" is a redundancy, the term "legal" added for emphasis within the context of relevant discussions to emphasize that there is a procedure to qualify as an immigrant, and if that procedure does not take place one simply does not qualify to be an immigrant at all.

Here again is the procedure that qualifies someone in America to be an immigrant: an immigrant to America is someone whose behavior accurately identifies him as an immigrant, someone who before he came to America filed papers through his country of origin with American officials applying for immigration to the U.S., appropriately waited his turn in line for American resources to become available, received authorization to come to America, came to America and entered the country through proper official pathways, to legally participate in activities in America. That's what an immigrant is. A similarly legal path for people on work visas also exists.

An immigrant is an immigrant because of his specific behavior that thereby qualifies him to be an immigrant.

There is simply no other way to be an immigrant in America.

First I will reiterate what has already been pointed out. 'Immigrant' is defined as:

Noun
A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
An animal or plant living or growing in a region to which it has migrated.

Therefore the 9/11 terrorists were not immigrants because their intent was not permanent residency. A person who enters the country illegally is only an immigrant if their stay is meant to be permanent. Since plenty of people come here primarily to make money to send back to their families for a period of time then I would agree that the term 'illegal alien' would probably be more suitable as a general reference to these people.

I do not see how 'legal immigrant' would be a redundancy since being an immigrant is not connected to the legality of the move across borders. The qualifying behavior that defines someone as an immigrant only requires that they "come to live permanently in a foreign country." It is not a matter of condition as an immigrant to the US is just as much an immigrant as someone who moves to any other country that is not their own.

The procedures you laid out are merely the condition of legal recognition for admittance to this country, it is not applicable to simply being an immigrant.
 
If someone does not engage in the necessary behavior to qualify as an "immigrant", then they are simply not an immigrant, not in the eyes of the law, not from a common sense reality perspective.

What tripe. Every person in the US who isn't a citizen or on student or vacation visa is an immigrant. The issue is do they have a valid visa to be here. If not, we deport them. We don't even prosecute them criminally for not having a proper visa.

The real question is why you feel the urge, the compulsion, to denigrate immigrants by suggesting they are criminals. Is this a conservative thing or what?
 
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