"if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W:804

[PirateMk1]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Key words, you think.

His purpose is easy and clearly stated. That while individuals had perosnal success, we also had success when we work together. No insult, not hidden agenda. Merely that we can and do good work together as well. Given the current climate in American, while not an earth shattering statement, one that needs to be said, an argument that needs to be made. Like my quote of Stewarts, we work together every single day. Only Darrelle Revis is an island.

While I may agree that working together breeds more sucess generally than alone, that said cooperation needs to be voluntary, otherwise the coehesed will very probably start working cross purpose to you. You get better results with honey as they say. If somebody doesnt want to see the light then you are better off leaving them alone in most cases especially if they are not actively interfering with whatever it is you are doing. Let sleeping dogs lie. Some people just dont like working with others.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

While I may agree that working together breeds more sucess generally than alone, that said cooperation needs to be voluntary, otherwise the coehesed will very probably start working cross purpose to you. You get better results with honey as they say. If somebody doesnt want to see the light then you are better off leaving them alone in most cases especially if they are not actively interfering with whatever it is you are doing. Let sleeping dogs lie. Some people just dont like working with others.

No one has argued differently.

But, government works quite a bit for business and wealthy. A lot of R&D for example goes on at our public universities, infrastruture is set up to help in all kinds of ways, and when they get in trouble, government bails them out. They also sometimes give seed money. I've been involved in that some here. These are just examples of help. There is no insult to it.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

No one has argued differently.

But, government works quite a bit for business and wealthy. A lot of R&D for example goes on at our public universities, infrastruture is set up to help in all kinds of ways, and when they get in trouble, government bails them out. They also sometimes give seed money. I've been involved in that some here. These are just examples of help. There is no insult to it.

Bailouts, seed money, and research are not the purpose of government. The proper place for that sort of thing is charitable endowments, and venture capitalists and investors. When the goverment does it its just glorified graft. Cooperation, communism, socailism, ect are fine if the particpants are not forced.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Bailouts, seed money, and research are not the purpose of government. The proper place for that sort of thing is charitable endowments, and venture capitalists and investors. When the goverment does it its just glorified graft. Cooperation, communism, socailism, ect are fine if the particpants are not forced.

That may or may not be, but it has been what government has been doing for a long time. Only when republicans did it, there wasn't any of the socialims communist nonsense. But I remember reading when studying the great depression that it was actually Baptist ministers, you know liberal hippie types, red to the core, who called on government to do more. Things come about for reasos other than evil commies.

However, what you did not address is that these things do happen and thereis no insult in noting them.

 

[Darrell]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

If he's successful, he pays a higher tax rate than most people, so in fact he contributed disproportionately to the expense of building up the state-funded infrastructure. Even the taxpayer funded stuff is "help" that the successful business owner pays for, even disproportionately. So for the hundredth time, WHAT IS THE POINT in Obama alleging this?

Is something MORE suddenly owed by the business owner to those outside the business whose "help" he already paid for?



I can't believe reasonable liberals won't accept the possibility that he is implying more than his words mean at the literal surface level. No business person anywhere is arguing he single handedly created his universe. There is a reason he is lecturing business owners about something they already knew. Is something MORE owed, even if they paid the taxes required of them and paid the employees and contractors the agreed upon rate?

Are you serious or are you messing with us?

 

[Neomalthusian]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Are you serious or are you messing with us?

1) Who's "us?"
2) What in my post would indicate I'm messing with you?
3) You can click my name and view my forum posts to get impressions about what I think about things. Or just hang out for a while and you'll figure it out.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

That may or may not be, but it has been what government has been doing for a long time. Only when republicans did it, there wasn't any of the socialims communist nonsense. But I remember reading when studying the great depression that it was actually Baptist ministers, you know liberal hippie types, red to the core, who called on government to do more. Things come about for reasos other than evil commies.

However, what you did not address is that these things do happen and thereis no insult in noting them.

I could care less who started it or why, the fact remains the glorified graft occurs. It needs to stop, soon. Things cannot continue as they are, eventually the house of cards come tumbeling down. Business and people supports the goverment not the goverment supports business. A business can only carry so much weight before it becomes untenable to continue in business. Same with people. I have never advocated for this graft and never will. It is foolish, to say the least. Our goverment was formed to provide a few very specific functions, that is all. It has grown far too much and is now on the brink of collapse. The goverment WILL be reduced, the question is how much and when, and how ugly.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

I could care less who started it or why, the fact remains the glorified graft occurs. It needs to stop, soon. Things cannot continue as they are, eventually the house of cards come tumbeling down. Business and people supports the goverment not the goverment supports business. A business can only carry so much weight before it becomes untenable to continue in business. Same with people. I have never advocated for this graft and never will. It is foolish, to say the least. Our goverment was formed to provide a few very specific functions, that is all. It has grown far too much and is now on the brink of collapse. The goverment WILL be reduced, the question is how much and when, and how ugly.

Actually, our government was not formed to be near as restrictive as some think. If that is what the founding fathers were only thinking about, the Articles of Confederation would have held firm. Instead, we needed a stronger federal government. Beyond that is 200+ years of history, in which we addressed all new concerns as they happened, and with the elected representation that the founding fathers invisioned. Nothing is perfect, and noting is static, so we will continue to face problems and adjust accordingly. How well or how poorly we choose elected officials will in the long run determine how long and well we continue. But what fascinates me most is how critical each side sees these problems when the other is in power, and little they see it when their side is power. And that's why I point out this isn't new. During the Bush years, some even argued that the deficit didn't matter. And they weren't wild eyed liberals or democrats either.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Here's a typical Fox News-watching asshole who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

You can't drive 5 miles from your house without Government helping you 100 times.

These ungrateful people should just move out of the country, go run your business in Russia.

 

[Aberration]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Government 'doing' something does not mean that only government can do it, or that we should be grateful because they didn't let anyone else do it.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Government 'doing' something does not mean that only government can do it, or that we should be grateful because they didn't let anyone else do it.

I agree with that.

But the whole premise of this false talking point being pushed by some conservatives is that private business happens in some sort of Government-free vacuum.

 

[Aberration]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

I agree with that.

But the whole premise of this false talking point being pushed by some conservatives is that private business happens in some sort of Government-free vacuum.

It is in response to a speech in which the premise was working together = 'rich' don't pay their fair share.

One false premise to combat another false premise. Who expected that to happen :roll:

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

It is in response to a speech in which the premise was working together = 'rich' don't pay their fair share.

One false premise to combat another false premise. Who expected that to happen :roll:

Sounds like persecution complex by the rich. Perhaps some self esteem classes are in order?

 

[kmiller1610]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Here's a typical Fox News-watching asshole who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

You can't drive 5 miles from your house without Government helping you 100 times.

These ungrateful people should just move out of the country, go run your business in Russia.

Do you think the government is something apart from us? It is not anything at all, but our taxes, our votes and our collective will. Animating the government into some zombie that does things for us is factually untrue. In fact the rich pay for most of what government does. Business pays for most of what the government does. Poor people and even the middle class pay for very little of what government does.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Government 'doing' something does not mean that only government can do it, or that we should be grateful because they didn't let anyone else do it.

Only? No one makes that case. But government has been used to do those things, and it was the choice of people, citizens, to use the government to do those things.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Do you think the government is something apart from us? It is not anything at all, but our taxes, our votes and our collective will. Animating the government into some zombie that does things for us is factually untrue. In fact the rich pay for most of what government does. Business pays for most of what the government does. Poor people and even the middle class pay for very little of what government does.

Do wish EVERYONE would remeber this and not just when it is convient to do so.

 

[Fletch]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Here's a typical Fox News-watching asshole who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

You can't drive 5 miles from your house without Government helping you 100 times.

These ungrateful people should just move out of the country, go run your business in Russia.

Why is there a Gaster Lumber and Hardware and not a Hazlnut Lumber and Hardware? Did you not know which bureaucrat to call to hold your hand through the business creation process?

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Why is there a Gaster Lumber and Hardware and not a Hazlnut Lumber and Hardware? Did you not know which bureaucrat to call to hold your hand through the business creation process?

That misses the point. No one said he didn't work hard or succeed from his hard work. Not one person said that.

 

[Fletch]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

That misses the point. No one said he didn't work hard or succeed from his hard work. Not one person said that.

Actually, the picture hazlnut posted was meant to project exactly that sentiment. As was his comment "You cant drive 5 miles from your house without the government helping you 100 times." As was the speech from Obama.

 

[Aberration]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Only? No one makes that case. But government has been used to do those things, and it was the choice of people, citizens, to use the government to do those things.

No it wasn't. It was the choice of the government to do those things.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

No it wasn't. It was the choice of the government to do those things.

Wrong again. As noted by a conservative earlier, we are the government. And through our representatives we worked to use government for these things. People and groups of people lobbied, worked, and prompted government to act.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

That misses the point. No one said he didn't work hard or succeed from his hard work. Not one person said that.

They do love their straw men, I'll give them that.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Actually, the picture hazlnut posted was meant to project exactly that sentiment. As was his comment "You cant drive 5 miles from your house without the government helping you 100 times." As was the speech from Obama.

What you just said, and I'll highlight does not contradict what I said. His business, what he did with it was his accomplishment. He likely ahd help from family and friends, but largely his. All the things noted in the picture, he did not do for himselve. He likley ahd a hand in, but it was a communal hand.

 

[kmiller1610]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

What you just said, and I'll highlight does not contradict what I said. His business, what he did with it was his accomplishment. He likely ahd help from family and friends, but largely his. All the things noted in the picture, he did not do for himselve. He likley ahd a hand in, but it was a communal hand.

No he just had a greater part in paying for what those other people did.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: "if you own a business, you didn't build it. Somebody else made that happe" -- [W

Here's a typical Fox News-watching asshole who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

You can't drive 5 miles from your house without Government helping you 100 times.

These ungrateful people should just move out of the country, go run your business in Russia.

Yeah those ungrateful bastards employing people and giving others the same chance at success as them, screw them.

Time to torch the list FUN TIME :2party:


USPS? Its bloated to hell. Mail volume has dropped through the cellar but the government has not engaged in meaningful labor force reductions, privatizing the operation would literally save billions the first year.

Spelling and Grammar---paid for primarily through property taxes, and if you are a property owner of your own business and building you know good and well you are paying your share.

Taxpayer funded road---well now, is it a county, city, state or interstate road road? Wait, doesnt matter, most of the road funds are paid for through GAS taxes, if you have taken a gander at those you would know that the government makes more money off a gallon of gas than the business supplying the oil. As a business owner Im pretty sure my company spends more in gas than I ever have as a private citizen. So they pay a fair share of that.

Proper drainage---county and paid for through county property taxes. Im betting this guy pays his share and then some.

Trademarked name....You have to pay a fee for this protection and then if someone infringes upon it you have to pay to protect it through the court system.

Ports....someone stupid shopped this up. Ports are created to RECOUP REVENUE. Ports make it more efficient to get business into a city and reap the rewards of increased trade. wtf....

Reliable electricity....YOU PAY FOR THIS!!

God this is probably the stupidest thing Ive seen posted. Nearly every thing on there is paid for along the way and government is not entirely responsible for it, in any event.

Someone toss up the Billy Madison clip.