If you hear 'Palestinians killed' and dismiss it as 'who cares', it's a problem

[Apocalypse]

Is or is not Israel stealing Palestinians lands. Answer: they are.
Have or have not residents of the “settlements” murdered Palestinian. Answer: they have.

Yeah I'm not sure you realize how ridiculous it is to compare the several cases of Settler terrorism against Palestinian civilians with the amount of Palestinian terrorism directed against Jewish civilians.
And Israel isn't stealing any Palestinian's lands.

 

[watsup]

Yeah I'm not sure you realize how ridiculous it is to compare the several cases of Settler terrorism against Palestinian civilians with the amount of Palestinian terrorism directed against Jewish civilians.
And Israel isn't stealing any Palestinian's lands.

See post #665.

 

[Craig234]

It's barbaric that with all the history to teach us, world wars, the Holocaust, native genocides, torture regimes, the horrors going on now from Russia just for a few examples, basic lessons in morals are still absent from so many regarding the decency Palestinians deserve. We haven't yet figured out how to get people to have those morals. They will USE morals when they benefit though.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

The " lies " were verified by UN inspections. The "lies" were admitted to by the prime minister of Israel at the time.
In fact nobody really considers the Qibya massacre a lie except for you.
You obviously choose to live in denial of the facts OR your posts are just bog standard trolling.
Either way trying to discus things with people who engage in the above is pretty much a complete waste of time. Enjoy that self imposed ignorance.

It's cute that you think that those neonazis at the UN have any sort of credibility.

Israeli leaders have occasionally been foolish enough to accept that accusations against Israel were true when a reporter confronted them. Perhaps that is what happened there. Or perhaps the entire story about the admission is fake and there was never any such admission.

Palestinians are attacking and killing Israelis because Israelis are attacking and killing them in a bid to remove them from their homeland.

That is incorrect. Israel is doing no such thing.

The Palestinians are waging an illegal war of aggression against Israel.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Israel’s settler colonies are mutually exclusive with any sort of peace deal.

That is incorrect. The settlements did not prevent Israel and Egypt from making peace. Israel merely removed their settlements from all land that was handed over to Egypt.

The Palestinians only started spouting nonsense about settlements because they needed a new excuse for waging their illegal war of aggression against Israel.

The Palestinians had been refusing to negotiate with Israel because they said that Ehud Olmert lacked legitimacy and had no authority to negotiate. At the time Olmert was in a caretaker role because Israeli elections had failed to produce a decisive winner.

The Palestinian position was clearly BS, as had Olmert been able to negotiate peace with the Palestinians, there would have been new elections and he would have won in a landslide. But the Palestinians stuck with their BS.

But then eventually Netanyahu was elected decisively, and the Palestinians no longer had Olmert's alleged lack of legitimacy as an excuse for refusing to negotiate. So the Palestinians came up with their settlement BS as a new excuse for refusing to make peace.

Like their previous BS, the Palestinian position was nonsense. Like I noted above, when Israel made peace with Egypt they merely withdrew their settlements. But like before, the fact that their BS is nonsense does not prevent the Palestinians from sticking with it.

Barack Obama came into office in the US about the same time that Netanyahu came into office in Israel, and just to give the Palestinians a chance, Mr. Obama arranged a deal where Israel would stop building settlements for about a year, and in exchange the US would give Israel a bunch of 5000-pound bunker busters (the kind that the US developed for the 1991 Iraq war).

So Israel stopped building settlements for an entire year, and guess what? The Palestinians still refused to end their illegal war of aggression and come to the negotiating table.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Usually, crimes are of a nature like two countries where one harms another, like Japan's 'rape of Nanking'.
This is a bit different, it's an ongoing crime not where two countries continue, but where Israel is executing a plan to eventually take 100% of the Palestinians' land, it seems, bit by bit.

If the Palestinians want that land all they need to do in order to get it is stop waging an illegal war of aggression and make peace.

Since the Palestinians refuse to make peace, it is perfectly appropriate for Israel to keep the land for themselves.

"Land For Peace" does not mean that the Palestinians get any land without making peace.

 

[Tigerace117]

That is incorrect. The settlements did not prevent Israel and Egypt from making peace. Israel merely removed their settlements from all land that was handed over to Egypt.

The Palestinians only started spouting nonsense about settlements because they needed a new excuse for waging their illegal war of aggression against Israel.

The Palestinians had been refusing to negotiate with Israel because they said that Ehud Olmert lacked legitimacy and had no authority to negotiate. At the time Olmert was in a caretaker role because Israeli elections had failed to produce a decisive winner.

The Palestinian position was clearly BS, as had Olmert been able to negotiate peace with the Palestinians, there would have been new elections and he would have won in a landslide. But the Palestinians stuck with their BS.

But then eventually Netanyahu was elected decisively, and the Palestinians no longer had Olmert's alleged lack of legitimacy as an excuse for refusing to negotiate. So the Palestinians came up with their settlement BS as a new excuse for refusing to make peace.

Like their previous BS, the Palestinian position was nonsense. Like I noted above, when Israel made peace with Egypt they merely withdrew their settlements. But like before, the fact that their BS is nonsense does not prevent the Palestinians from sticking with it.

Barack Obama came into office in the US about the same time that Netanyahu came into office in Israel, and just to give the Palestinians a chance, Mr. Obama arranged a deal where Israel would stop building settlements for about a year, and in exchange the US would give Israel a bunch of 5000-pound bunker busters (the kind that the US developed for the 1991 Iraq war).

So Israel stopped building settlements for an entire year, and guess what? The Palestinians still refused to end their illegal war of aggression and come to the negotiating table.

Egypt refused to make peace with Israel prior to Israel ending its settler colonialism on Egyptian soil.

The Israeli settler colonial system is illegal under international law.

No amount of attempting to excuse the slaughter of Palestinian civilians can change that.

 

[watsup]

And Israel isn't stealing any Palestinian's lands.

Of course they are. Most of the nations of the world recognize that.

 

[watsup]

, it is perfectly appropriate for Israel to keep the land for themselves.

No true. It is illegal under international law. Most nations of the world recognize that.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Whataboutism. We are talking about the long-standing oppression of the Palestinians by Israel.

No such oppression is occurring. Israel is merely protecting themselves from war criminals who are waging an illegal war of aggression.

Even American-based Jews are tired of it:
“In 2021, a Jewish Electorate Institute poll found that 58% of American Jewish voters support restrictions on US military aid to prevent Israel using it to expand West Bank settlements. One-third agreed that “Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is similar to racism in the United States” and one-quarter said that “Israel is an apartheid state”, numbers that shocked some Jewish community leaders.
Part of the shift has been driven by social media and the wide circulation of videos such as Israeli assaults on Gaza and the West Bank, the large-scale forced removal of Palestinians from the South Hebron hills, and armed Jewish settlers rampaging through Palestinian towns.

Self-Hating Jews spout all sorts of antisemitic lies.

In addition, the repudiation by the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, of a Palestinian state, and far-right members of his latest government openly advocating annexation, have undercut Israel’s longstanding defense that its policies are a response to terrorism.

Nothing has been undercut. Israel has every right to defend themselves from an illegal war of aggression.

And since the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace, Israel has every right to use that land for themselves.

That has given traction to claims by Israeli and foreign human rights groups that Israel has imposed a form of apartheid on the occupied territories.”

‘We are winning’: Are US Jews who oppose Israeli settlements finally getting somewhere?

American Jews are growing sceptical of Israeli policies towards Palestinians and want limits on aid to prevent settlement growth

www.theguardian.com

These sorts of neonazi groups always spout lies about Jews supposedly committing atrocities.

Yes, I note that you carefully avoid discussion of Israel stealing Palestinian land,

It's not Palestinian land. The Palestinians would only receive that land if they made peace, and the Palestinians chose instead to wage an illegal war of aggression.

or the murder of Palestinians by those occupying said “settlements”. Just more Israeli apologism.

Self defense is not murder. Even when it is a Jew who is defending themselves.

Jews are allowed to defend themselves from murderers too.

Thank you for proving the last sentence of post #665. You are clearly not interested in anything but promoting Israeli propaganda.

"Israeli propaganda" is merely the truth.

Of course they are. Most of the nations of the world recognize that.

That is incorrect. That land was never given to the Palestinians since the Palestinians refused to make peace.

No true. It is illegal under international law. Most nations of the world recognize that.

That is incorrect. International law does not require Israel to give any land to a pack of war criminals who are waging an illegal war of aggression against Israel.

"Land For Peace" only asks Israel to give up land if Israel gets peace in return for it.

 

[watsup]

No such oppression is occurring. Israel is merely protecting themselves from war criminals who are waging an illegal war of aggression.



Self-Hating Jews spout all sorts of antisemitic lies.



Nothing has been undercut. Israel has every right to defend themselves from an illegal war of aggression.

And since the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace, Israel has every right to use that land for themselves.



These sorts of neonazi groups always spout lies about Jews supposedly committing atrocities.



It's not Palestinian land. The Palestinians would only receive that land if they made peace, and the Palestinians chose instead to wage an illegal war of aggression.



Self defense is not murder. Even when it is a Jew who is defending themselves.

Jews are allowed to defend themselves from murderers too.



"Israeli propaganda" is merely the truth.



That is incorrect. That land was never given to the Palestinians since the Palestinians refused to make peace.



That is incorrect. International law does not require Israel to give any land to a pack of war criminals who are waging an illegal war of aggression against Israel.

"Land For Peace" only asks Israel to give up land if Israel gets peace in return for it.

You are very good at parrotIng the far right extremist land grabbers in Israel. Not so good at objective judgement of what is actually going on.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Egypt refused to make peace with Israel prior to Israel ending its settler colonialism on Egyptian soil.

That was no problem. Israel withdrew their settlements as part of the peace deal.

If a peace deal ever arranges the transfer of land to the Palestinians, Israel will withdraw settlements from that land as well.

The Israeli settler colonial system is illegal under international law.
No amount of attempting to excuse the slaughter of Palestinian civilians can change that.

The Palestinian war of aggression against Israel is illegal under international law.

So long as the Palestinians refuse to make peace under any circumstances, Israel will keep using the land for themselves.

If the Palestinians ever decide to make peace, Israel will withdraw from any land that is handed over to the Palestinians.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

You are very good at parrotIng the far right extremist land grabbers in Israel.

That's because they are telling the truth. When two people tell the truth, they say the same thing.

Not so good at objective judgement of what is actually going on.

That is incorrect. Everything that I said is true.

 

[watsup]

That's because they are telling the truth. When two people tell the truth, they say the same thing.



That is incorrect. Everything that I said is true.

No, it’s not. The Israelis are illegally, by international law, simply taking land that belongs to the Palestinians. The nations of the world and many Jews in both the US and Israel understand that, your Palestinian-hating rants notwithstanding.

 

[Tigerace117]

That was no problem. Israel withdrew their settlements as part of the peace deal.

If a peace deal ever arranges the transfer of land to the Palestinians, Israel will withdraw settlements from that land as well.



The Palestinian war of aggression against Israel is illegal under international law.

So long as the Palestinians refuse to make peace under any circumstances, Israel will keep using the land for themselves.

If the Palestinians ever decide to make peace, Israel will withdraw from any land that is handed over to the Palestinians.

There absolutely was a problem, the settlers practically had to be dragged out of Israel‘s colonies in the Sinai kicking and screaming.

Israel’s colonies are illegal under international law. Israel wailing “but the other guys” doesn’t negate that.

 

[watsup]

wailing “but the other guys” doesn’t negate that.

I don’t think that I have ever seen such a hilariously ironic thread given that is EXACTLY what you spend 90% of your time elsewhere doing!

 

[Tigerace117]

I don’t think that I have ever seen such a hilariously ironic thread given that is EXACTLY what you spend 90% of your time elsewhere doing!

So no, you have no argument whatsoever. Just more rage that anyone would dare condemning US bad behavior.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

No, it’s not. The Israelis are illegally, by international law, simply taking land that belongs to the Palestinians.

That is incorrect. International law does not require Israel to give land to someone who is waging an illegal war of aggression against them.

"Land For Peace" doesn't mean that the Palestinians get any land if they refuse to make peace.

The nations of the world and many Jews in both the US and Israel understand that, your Palestinian-hating rants notwithstanding.

Appeals to the crowd are logical fallacies.

Even if they weren't, I'm not sure why I would care about the views of neonazis and self-hating Jews.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

There absolutely was a problem, the settlers practically had to be dragged out of Israel‘s colonies in the Sinai kicking and screaming.

It still was done.

And if the Palestinians ever make peace with Israel, Israel will also remove settlers from all the land that is transferred to the Palestinians.

But it will not happen unless Israel gets peace in return for it.

Israel’s colonies are illegal under international law. Israel wailing “but the other guys” doesn’t negate that.

I see no need to negate it. It remains a fact that Israel will not give any land to the Palestinians unless Israel gets peace in exchange for that land.

 

[Tigerace117]

It still was done.

And if the Palestinians ever make peace with Israel, Israel will also remove settlers from all the land that is transferred to the Palestinians.

But it will not happen unless Israel gets peace in return for it.



I see no need to negate it. It remains a fact that Israel will not give any land to the Palestinians unless Israel gets peace in exchange for that land.

And therefore Israel only gained peace when it first ended its colonization efforts.

Colonization and peace are mutually exclusiv.

 

[oneworld2]

Yeah I'm not sure you realize how ridiculous it is to compare the several cases of Settler terrorism against Palestinian civilians with the amount of Palestinian terrorism directed against Jewish civilians.

But when you compare the level of Israeli state terrorism being leveled against the Palestinian people, which is the reason for the Palestinian terrorism in the first place, your comparison is truly laid bare as being " ridiculous"

 

[oneworld2]

It's cute that you think that those neonazis at the UN have any sort of credibility.

Israeli leaders have occasionally been foolish enough to accept that accusations against Israel were true when a reporter confronted them. Perhaps that is what happened there. Or perhaps the entire story about the admission is fake and there was never any such admission.



That is incorrect. Israel is doing no such thing.

The Palestinians are waging an illegal war of aggression against Israel.

So you couldn't find anything to support your assertion that the massacre at Qibya, which I doubt you had ever heard of before I mentioned it, was " Palestinian lies"?

So you move on making similar posts based on your complete lack of knowledge of the subject?

You see here's a thing about Qibya, Ben Gurion blamed it, knowing it to be a complete lie, on the people living in a nearby Jewish village.

So the leader of Israel at the time acknowledged there was a massacre but lied about who had carried it out. For you his Jewish heritage will likely make him credible to you , so is he a neonazi too?

Your posts are just dreadful , one sided nonsense built on an obvious bias against the Palestinians.

There's just so much wrong with what you write here, it's obvious you really haven't read much about the subject.

 

[watsup]

Appeals to the crowd are logical fallacies.

Not if the information is correct.

I'm not sure why I would care about the views of neonazis and self-hating Jews.

These kinds of rants are the reason that you have no credibility as regards this subject. It is not neonazis and self-hating Jews who understand the illegality of the Israeli “settlements”, it is perfectly reasonable people who understand international law and the manner in which Israel is scoffing at it.

International law does not require Israel to give land to someone who is waging an illegal war of aggression against them.

Yes, another rant that you insist on repeating instead of trying to understand the situation as a whole. There’s really not much reason to try to have a thoughtful discussion with you when you just respond every single time with the same rants. If you are comfortable with a lack of credibility, then I suppose you can continue in that vein.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

And therefore Israel only gained peace when it first ended its colonization efforts.
Colonization and peace are mutually exclusiv.

OK, and...?

I'm not sure what your point is.

I certainly agree that as part of a peace agreement, Israel will withdraw settlers from any land that they hand over to the other party.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Not if the information is correct.

That is incorrect. All appeals to the crowd are logical fallacies.

These kinds of rants are the reason that you have no credibility as regards this subject.

If you do not find the truth credible, that is not a problem for me. You only harm your own position when you disregard the truth.

It is not neonazis and self-hating Jews who understand the illegality of the Israeli “settlements”, it is perfectly reasonable people who understand international law and the manner in which Israel is scoffing at it.

That is incorrect. People who falsely accuse Jews of committing imaginary atrocities are correctly referred to as neonazis.

Yes, another rant that you insist on repeating instead of trying to understand the situation as a whole.

Characterizing the truth as a rant does not make it any less true.

And I do understand the situation as a whole. "Land For Peace" does not mean that the Palestinians get any land if they refuse to make peace.

There’s really not much reason to try to have a thoughtful discussion with you when you just respond every single time with the same rants.

As if pointing out facts and reality was a rant?

I confess that you made me chuckle here.

If you are comfortable with a lack of credibility, then I suppose you can continue in that vein.

Again, it is not an issue for me if you do not accept reality as credible. You only harm your own position when you disregard reality.