If you have issues with a religion what do you focus on more?

[scourge99]

But a lot of people have "unwarranted beliefs" that are "poorly supported" and cause them to take illogical action. You could say the same thing about political beliefs you disagree with.

Yes. Poor beliefs are not restricted to theist and non-theist beliefs.

But you can't simply talk people out of what they believe.

No one can be forced to believe something else. However, some people can and do become convinced that their previous beliefs were incorrect or flawed. Many atheists used to believe in some form of Christianity. Some Christians used to be atheists.

So I absolutely disagree that debate and discussion cannot convince others. Oftentimes it is not the people who directly participate in the debate that are convinced but lurkers and other readers. Readers are not stupid and can tell when others are defending an irrational position or making unverifiable claims.

You could say the same thing about atheism, since atheism attempts to prove a negative, which is logically impossible.

Perhaps you and other atheists attempt to prove negatives. I for one do NOT.

I do claim that Gods do not exist. I simply disbelieve in gods. That is, I am not absolutely certain that any of the proposed gods by man do not exist. Its merely that I find no reason or evidence to believe the claims of believers that their proposed God(s) exists.

Do you understand the difference?

Perhaps this article will help you understand the fatal flaws with the claim often made by theists that "atheists can't prove god exists".
You can't prove God doesn't exist - Iron Chariots Wiki

I despise religion, but I also support the right to practice it unabridged by the Law. I'm a free speech guy.

I also support most forms of free-speech, but I do NOT support unrestricted free-speech and neither does our constitution. E.G., shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

Freedom of speech is dependent upon context.

This forum is not a crowded theater but it does have specific rules and guidelines that all members agreed to follow upon signing up that does restrict their freedom of speech. E.G., "At Debate Politics we see freedom of speech as the right to communicate ideas. With this right comes the responsibility to choose your words carefully and respect the rights of others. Common sense dictates the difference between one expressing themselves and one who is disruptive. If you are focused on contributing to the community, you will not have to be concerned with being a disruption. Disruptive behavior, such as personal attacks, can lead to temporary or permanent revocation of posting privileges."
http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-rules/28594-forum-rules.html

 

[scourge99]

Here's what it comes down to for me in a nutshell:

If religion leaves me alone, I won't bother it either. If religion starts messing with me or forcing its dogma on me in any way, it had better be ready to go to war.

Stay as far away from me as possible and you can believe in and do whatever the hell your imaginary friend tells you to do. Get anywhere near me with your bull**** and I'll hurt you.

Many religious people DO bother people and attempt to force their dogma on others. E.G., through laws forbidding homosexuality and teaching pseudoscience in classrooms.

Perhaps you aren't a homosexual or do not have children in school so then YOU don't care.

This saying appears to reflect my response.
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

 

[scourge99]

No - People's right to practice their religion ends at their own private property.

This is not true in the Unites States.

The religious are allowed to practice their religion as they see fit as long as it doesn't not violate the laws.

Teachers leading a prayer during normal school hours is unconstitutional.

Students praying while in school or practicing their religion in their school (as long as they are not disruptive) is 100% constitutional and supported.

Teachers and students may lead prayers outside of school hours.

 

[samsmart]

This is not true in the Unites States.

The religious are allowed to practice their religion as they see fit as long as it doesn't not violate the laws.

Teachers leading a prayer during normal school hours is unconstitutional.

Students praying while in school or practicing their religion in their school (as long as they are not disruptive) is 100% constitutional and supported.

Teachers and students may lead prayers outside of school hours.

Yes, but they shouldn't have the right to disallow gays from getting married, or keep people from gambling, or stop people from saying "****" on tv or all the other ways people of religion push their beliefs onto others.

 

[Orion]

My problem has never been with the scriptures. It has been with the followers. More people than I can stand are too petty and small minded to take responsibility for their own beliefs; they are took busy trying to convert others to spend time examining things more deeply.

 

[scourge99]

Yes, but they shouldn't have the right to disallow gays from getting married, or keep people from gambling, or stop people from saying "****" on tv or all the other ways people of religion push their beliefs onto others.

I agree that one's religious beliefs should not be the basis for the passing of laws in our secular government. But all too often that is the case.

 

[Cephus]

Do you focus on their entire holy book (or portions of it) - breaking it down to scriptural issues when stating your reasons to be against them or to have issues with?

Or do you focus on how they conduct their selves and what the general beliefs are and how they might apply those beliefs onto other people outside of their religion?

I think it has to be a combination, certainly. An absurd holy book doesn't mean anything if nobody follows it. If people would just dismiss the bizarre aspects and act like decent human beings to begin with, I doubt there would be nearly the number of problems we see with religion. Unfortunately, that's not what we see. To quote Steven Weinberg, "I think that on the balance the moral influence of religion has been awful. With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil. But for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."

 

[Barbbtx]

Yes, but they shouldn't have the right to disallow gays from getting married, or keep people from gambling, or stop people from saying "****" on tv or all the other ways people of religion push their beliefs onto others.

I'm sure not all religous people oppose gay marriage.
I also know some who are not religious and do oppose it.
Some people just believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that gays should have all other rights of a married couple.

 

[Arcana XV]

Many religious people DO bother people and attempt to force their dogma on others. E.G., through laws forbidding homosexuality and teaching pseudoscience in classrooms.

Perhaps you aren't a homosexual or do not have children in school so then YOU don't care.

This saying appears to reflect my response.
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

I don't think you really understood what I was saying. Or I may have expressed myself poorly and made it sound a little more selfish than I intended. When I said that I would go to war if religion tries to force its dogma on me in any way, I meant if they try to infiltrate my secular world with their bull****. That affects a lot more than my own personal comfort zone and extends to the secular society I live in as well.

Hope that clears up my position a little more.

 

[Patria Antiqua]

I write them off as idiots and stop talking to them.

 

[Cephus]

I write them off as idiots and stop talking to them.

Unfortunately, no matter what kind of idiots they are, there are usually a lot of them and they weild a lot of political power. Not talking to them doesn't mean they don't affect you.