If you find gay/trans perverted, why?

[DCCougar]

....to tie trans rights to the ability of trans women to compete in women’s sports is insane. By doing so, you are handing [MAGA and the cultural right] a politically winning issue.

I agree. I am totally supportive of fundamental trans rights and their right to have protections against discrimination in housing, employment and so on. But one must admit that transsexual or transgender people belong to a "special" class such that it is understandable that physical competition is unfair to females who were born females.

A better argument to have with MAGA is on fundamental trans rights, and their right to have protections against discrimination in housing, employment and so on. Fight them on their stupid bathroom bills, their attempts to block trans women from changing their driver’s license. Fight them on their attempts to deny healthcare to trans people.

Those are all issues that are political losers for MAGA, so don’t make the battle about trans women in women’s sports because all we are doing then is handing MAGA a winning issue.

At least one Court of Appeals found that transgenders are a protected class under Title VII.

"To establish a prima facie case of retaliation pursuant to Title VII, a plaintiff must show that: (1) he engaged in an activity protected by Title VII; (2) the defendant knew he engaged in this protected activity, [etc.].... Smith's complaint satisfies the first two requirements..." Smith v. City of Salem, Ohio, 378 F. 3d 566 - Court of Appeals, 6th Circuit 2004.​

The 6th Circuit based the above decision on the Supreme Court's holding in Price Waterhouse v. Hopkins, 490 US 228 - Supreme Court 1989, where that court found:

"...the statute [Title VII] forbids an employer to "fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment," or to "limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual's . . . sex." 42 U. S. C. §§ 2000e-2(a)(1), (2) (emphasis added). We take these words to mean that gender must be irrelevant to employment decisions." [emphasis added]​

 

[DCCougar]

DCCougar said:
Or, from the case law,
"....a transsexual [is] one who has "[a] rare psychiatric disorder in which a person feels persistently uncomfortable about his or her anatomical sex...."

Transgender identity, or being transgender is not considered a mental disorder. The World Health Organization (WHO) has removed being transgender from its list of mental disorders, and the term "transsexualism" has been replaced with "gender incongruence" in the latest edition of the International Classification of Diseases.....

Thanks for the update. Yes, that Supreme Court "dicta" is from 1994, but I don't think the Court can be blamed too harshly for identifying what was before them as "a rare psychiatric disorder." The mind is certainly a part of it, but yeah, even though it's very rare, "disorder" is inappropriate since it is naturally occurring in our species and deserves all the rights as everybody else.

 

[CLAX1911]

I am handing them nothing at all. They try to claim that women are being forced to compete with men.

Well if the options are compete with this man or f*** the hell off I'm not sure how that's voluntary.

This is a false claim. Nothing has been forced on women regarding competing with men.

Yes it has. Women's sports are supposed to be for women. If men involve themselves then where do they go?

The issue is a non issue so tiny that it barely exists.

Then stop talking about it. If if you trans people don't get their way what difference does it make?

But they use it as an emotional wedge to argue against the rights of transgender people in general.

No it's not. Nobody says men shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's sports and they should also be imprisoned for cross-dressing.

To give ground is to surrender.

So it's not a little issue.

They have no valid objection to a thing that is barely a blip in women’s sports.

Did you have no objection to giving ground. You keep saying it's a tiny issue but at the same time it's all about rights and not surrendering so you're either lying to yourself or you're being dishonest.

That's why nobody should ever trust anyone who says this is a tiny issue you shouldn't bother thinking about.

 

[devildavid]

Well if the options are compete with this man or f*** the hell off I'm not sure how that's voluntary.



Yes it has. Women's sports are supposed to be for women. If men involve themselves then where do they go?

Then stop talking about it. If if you trans people don't get their way what difference does it make?

No it's not. Nobody says men shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's sports and they should also be imprisoned for cross-dressing.

So it's not a little issue.

Did you have no objection to giving ground. You keep saying it's a tiny issue but at the same time it's all about rights and not surrendering so you're either lying to yourself or you're being dishonest.

That's why nobody should ever trust anyone who says this is a tiny issue you shouldn't bother thinking about.

They aren’t being forced to do anything. It is a tiny issue that is used to as an emotional wedge against all transgender people, even the tiny number who don’t compete in sports. And then of course the cray idead that people change sexes just to gain access to restrooms and locker rooms. Just a bunch of stupid and emotional claims used as obvious propaganda tools to stoke resentment and hatred against the latest group that the far right uses for political purposes to stir up support for their politics of hate.

 

[Randomutation]

Your notion of what motivates a transsexual is very, very wrong. "Obsession" is close, but not quite right. The obsession is unbidden. Unintentional. An internal compulsion they really can't do anything about.... except ultimately acquiesce.

Not all transsexuals have this "internal compulsion they really can't do anything about". You're stereotyping.
Many simply have a desire to live as the opposite sex without having a compulsion that dominates their lives.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Not all transsexuals have this "internal compulsion they really can't do anything about". You're stereotyping.
Many simply have a desire to live as the opposite sex without having a compulsion that dominates their lives.

So, you'd dress and live as a women without being compelled to do so?
That's a bold admission.
Kudos to you!

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Not all transsexuals have this "internal compulsion they really can't do anything about". You're stereotyping.

Where did you earn your doctorate?

 

[Randomutation]

So, you'd dress and live as a women without being compelled to do so?

Only if I had a desire to. Why?

That's a bold admission.
Kudos to you!

Uh, thanks for the kudos. I guess

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Only if I had a desire to. Why?

Only a "desire"?
Not an irresistible urge?
I dare say, I think it would be along the lines of an irresistible urge (compulsion), as opposed to a mere "desire" (strong feeling) that would be enough to compel most men to go out in public dressed and acting as a Women ( outside of Halloween or costume parties).

 

[Lisa]

Only a "desire"?
Not an irresistible urge?
I dare say, I think it would be along the lines of an irresistible urge (compulsion), as opposed to a mere "desire" (strong feeling) that would be enough to compel most men to go out in public dressed and acting as a Women ( outside of Halloween or costume parties).

The irresistible urge to dress and life as the opposite sex has another name. Its the psychiatric definition of gender dysphoria.

Symptoms of Gender Dysphoria​

DSM-5 states that the initial condition for the identification of gender dysphoria in both adults and teenagers is a noticeable incongruence between the gender the patient believes they are, and what society perceives them to be. This disparity should be ongoing for at least 6 months and should consist of 2 or more of the subsequent criteria (American Psychiatric Association, 2013):

• Noticeable incongruence between the gender that the patient sees themselves are, and what their classified gender assignment
• An intense need to do away with his or her primary or secondary sex features (or, in the case of young teenagers, to avert the maturity of the likely secondary features)
• An intense desire to have the primary or secondary sex features of the other gender
• A deep desire to transform into another gender
• A profound need for society to treat them as another gender
• A powerful assurance of having the characteristic feelings and responses of the other gender
• The second necessity is that the condition should be connected with clinically important distress, or affects the individual significantly socially, at work, and in other import areas of life.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

 

[Crakhobarbie]

The irresistible urge to dress and life as the opposite sex has another name. Its the psychiatric definition of gender dysphoria.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

I was attempting to point out the error of @Randomutation's comment that "not all transexuals have an internal compulsion that they really can't do anything about".

It went right over his head,
as expected.

 

[Lisa]

I was attempting to point out the error of @Randomutation's comment that "not all transexuals have an internal compulsion that they really can't do anything about".

It went right over his head,
as expected.

There are some trans people whose urge to be female or male (FtM) is not as severe so they dont suffer from gender dysphoria. People who are nonbinary also don't suffer from gender dysphoria, even if they do not feel completely comfortable as one sex or the other .

 

[Crakhobarbie]

There are some trans people whose urge to be female or male (FtM) is not as severe so they dont suffer from gender dysphoria. People who are nonbinary also don't suffer from gender dysphoria, even if they do not feel completely comfortable as one sex or the other .

I'm not expert, but it is logical that some may simply identify as a different gender without feeling distressed about their assigned sex. Therefore the act of "transitioning" is not a necessity.
And, on the other side of that coin, one could also presume that if someone is not compelled to transition, are they then truly a trans?

 

[Randomutation]

There are some trans people whose urge to be female or male (FtM) is not as severe so they dont suffer from gender dysphoria.

Yes, I didn't know the correct scientific term for it (gender dysphoria) but that's the distinction I was referring to.

 

[Randomutation]

Only a "desire"?
Not an irresistible urge?
I dare say, I think it would be along the lines of an irresistible urge (compulsion), as opposed to a mere "desire" (strong feeling) that would be enough to compel most men to go out in public dressed and acting as a Women ( outside of Halloween or costume parties).

Well, if you read Lisa's posts and link on this subject you will find out that its not as simple as you thought.

 

[Lisa]

Yes, I didn't know the correct scientific term for it (gender dysphoria) but that's the distinction I was referring to.

Gender dysphoria often includes depression and anxiety disorders from trying to deny their deep cross-gender feelings and being forced to live as their birth sex. If a person doesn't have the depression and another then they are diagnosed as transgender instead.

I'm not expert, but it is logical that some may simply identify as a different gender without feeling distressed about their assigned sex. Therefore the act of "transitioning" is not a necessity.
And, on the other side of that coin, one could also presume that if someone is not compelled to transition, are they then truly a trans?

Transitioning is not required to be transgender. There are many people who are transgender and cannot transition or cant fully transition (they often take low dose HRT and live somewhat androgynous) because of work, relationships, family, money, health, or religious beliefs.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Well, if you read Lisa's posts and link on this subject you will find out that its not as simple as you thought.

It all boils down to, if one is not compelled to "transition", are they truly trans?
My comments refer to those who are compelled to "transition ".
Not those who are not compelled to transition.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Gender dysphoria often includes depression and anxiety disorders from trying to deny their deep cross-gender feelings and being forced to live as their birth sex. If a person doesn't have the depression and another then they are diagnosed as transgender instead.


Transitioning is not required to be transgender. There are many people who are transgender and cannot transition or cant fully transition (they often take low dose HRT and live somewhat androgynous) because of work, relationships, family, money, health, or religious beliefs.

I concede the point.

 

[Lisa]

I concede the point.

There is nothing to concede.

 

[CLAX1911]

The irresistible urge to dress and life as the opposite sex has another name. Its the psychiatric definition of gender dysphoria.

So it's based on stereotypes?

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

 

[Lisa]

So it's based on stereotypes?

Its based on an internal sense of self. How it is expressed can be social stereotypes.

 

[CLAX1911]

Its based on an internal sense of self.

Then the irresistible urge to crossdress and this life is the opposite sex is not relevant.

That 100% has to do with how you're perceived not how you perceive yourself.

How it is expressed can be social stereotypes.

Seems like the only way it can be expressed is through stereotypes.

 

[SoccerCoach]

I've asked this question of most of the bigoted transphobic/Homophobic folks here, but i never get a viable response.
Normally, they just refuse to answer.
Or, they'll answer "if you don't know i feel sorry for you", or something along those lines.

I'd like to try and understand what makes some think their sexual proclivities are less or more perverse than other folks.

I recall as a teenager, sitting around with my friends shooting the shit. We'd discuss all sorts of topics. One day, homosexuality came up. We all agreed that watching two beautiful females kissing would be pleasing. But, when visualizing two men kissing on the mouth, their grisly beards scratching against one another, the reactions became mixed.
Now, none of us were bigots as teenagers, but I wondered, what caused some kids to swing towards bigotry in adulthood, and others to lean towards acceptance and inclusion?

Homosexuality is normal and created by a genetic predisposition and a trigger during early development. Thats why identical twins are both gay 53% of the time. Transgender ideology is symptom of a socially contagious mental disorder much like eating disorders and cutting. In every case we find a premorbid personality disorder or emotional disturbance. This is not to be confused with abnormal secondary sexual development referred incorrectly as intersex. XXY are males thats Kleinfelder's Syndrome, Y females are Turners syndrome. Swyers Syndrome are males with partial non functional ovaries.

 

[Lisa]

Homosexuality is normal and created by a genetic predisposition and a trigger during early development. Thats why identical twins are both gay 53% of the time. Transgender ideology is symptom of a socially contagious mental disorder much like eating disorders and cutting. In every case we find a premorbid personality disorder or emotional disturbance. This is not to be confused with abnormal secondary sexual development referred incorrectly as intersex. XXY are males thats Kleinfelder's Syndrome, Y females are Turners syndrome. Swyers Syndrome are males with partial non functional ovaries.

It would be a shame if you couldn't prove that assertion. Medical science doesn't support your claims.

Do you have a link to this trans ideology? Id like to read it.

Thanks

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Transgender ideology is symptom of a socially contagious mental disorder much like eating disorders and cutting. In every case we find a premorbid personality disorder or emotional disturbance. This is not to be confused with abnormal secondary sexual development referred incorrectly as intersex. XXY are males thats Kleinfelder's Syndrome, Y females are Turners syndrome. Swyers Syndrome are males with partial non functional ovaries.

Your confusing transexuality with magas.
I've made that error myself.

Transgender identity in itself is not a mental disorder. Major medical organizations, like the World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA), have affirmed this.
The DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) does include a diagnosis of "gender dysphoria," but this diagnosis focuses on the distress and impairment associated with the incongruence between one's gender identity and assigned sex, not the gender identity itself.

Of course, if we were still living in 1952, you'd be conditionally accurate.