If transphobes were consistent

[bomberfox]

I believe trans people exist but are few in number. I have what I believe is a reasonable concern of underage children being unduly presented with the concept their biology and sex organs have no bearing on their actual sexual identity. I'm opposed to any surgical procedures prior to emancipation. Lastly I'm opposed to a male claiming to be a female to compete in woman's sports.

None of these objections are based on a phobia* of trans people. I believe in the pursuit of happiness and if adults want to have a sex change...it's a free country. Being opposed to certain actions doesn't make one phobic. Lots of people are opposed to burglary it doesn't make them burgaphobe's.



*an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.

Where do you get your actual information on trans people? Do you consult those who have been helped by transitioning?

 

[reinaert]

If the transphobes were consistent, they'd call that "grooming." Which it isn't any more than having drag queen hours is.

But the staff are all adults.

Um. You really expect people to believe that the scantily-clad waitresses have nothing to do with sexuality?

Yes, because a white shirt and orange shorts are not sexual. You are missing the mark trying to make your point using Hooters. There is a world that's wrong with its treatment of employees, but they aren't 'grooming' or 'sexualizing' their staff. They're preying on lonely, mostly older men who crave even mercantile intimacy.

Sexuality exists on spectrums and degrees. Just cause Hooters isn't a strip club doesn't mean it's completely free from sexuality.

You don't have to take my word for it. But, your example is the wrong one for your point.

 

[Phys251]

But the staff are all adults.



Yes, because a white shirt and orange shorts are not sexual. You are missing the mark trying to make your point using Hooters. There is a world that's wrong with its treatment of employees, but they aren't 'grooming' or 'sexualizing' their staff. They're preying on lonely, mostly older men who crave even mercantile intimacy.

You don't have to take my word for it. But, your example is the wrong one for your point.

It was deliberately absurd. Hooters is no more "grooming" kids than drag queens are.

 

[bomberfox]

https://blogs.law.columbia.edu/abolition1313/files/2020/11/They-Were-Her-Property.pdf

@Aristaeus since you so glumly insinuated that white women were lower on the hierarchical food chain than black men and women were never in positions of privilege or oppressors. I give you the book that TERFs would rather we forget.

 

[Aristaeus]

Why not a guy dressed up in leather fetish gear or puppy play gear?

Because that's sexual. Drag isn't sexual.

 

[CLAX1911]

Because that's sexual. Drag isn't sexual.

How is it not? The whole point of it is sexual.

 

[Aristaeus]

How is it not? The whole point of it is sexual.

A man in a dress is not sexual unless he wants it to be sexual. A drag artist can perform an adult routine for adults or a kid-friendly routine for kids.

 

[CLAX1911]

A man in a dress is not sexual

we weren't talking about crossdressers we're talking about drag queens there's two different turns for these things cuz they're two different things.

Drag is a performance and it most certainly is sexual

unless he wants it to be sexual. A drag artist can perform an adult routine for adults or a kid-friendly routine for kids.

A leather fetishist or someone into pony play can do the same thing.

So again why would you object to someone dressed up and leather fetish gear or pony Blake gear reading the kids?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Then they would push for making Hooters a mandatory 18+ establishment. Card everyone at the door. No card or under 18, you don't get in.

That is a decision society can make.

The transphobes would also say horrible things about Hooters and the waitresses. Way worse than anything they deserve.

In reality, the transphobes don't say a damn thing because they know it's not the end of the world if a youngster sees a woman in cleavage. But let a youth be exposed to the slightest bit of LGBTQ sexuality, and transphobes lose their minds. They want to sanitize children's minds.

(FWIW, I would be against this 18+ measure. It's up to families to regulate what their kids are exposed to. I'm just showing the hypocrisy of the transphobes.)

Because transvestitism is disordered, and while hooters is selling sex appeal, drag shows are selling sexual deviancy

 

[EMNofSeattle]

A man in a dress is not sexual unless he wants it to be sexual. A drag artist can perform an adult routine for adults or a kid-friendly routine for kids.

It is sexual. We don’t live in a society where dresses are considered normal wear for men, so a man who’s doing it is either doing it in jest, with the joke being it’s disordered to engage in transvestism, or because of psychosexual issues.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It's obvious you've never been to Hooters.

Maybe the one time in my life I was at Hooters was the one night everything was as fine, but there was no sexual or erotic displays. There is mildly immodest dress, but it’s not deviant.

Hooters have family nights. Isn't that "grooming" by your side's standards?

No. It is not grooming to eat chicken wings at a restaurant

 

[DrewPaul]

Where do you get your actual information on trans people? Do you consult those who have been helped by transitioning?

Have you consulted with those who regret transitioning? Have you talked to other transsexuals who agree with my position? Are they transphobes too?

According to Pew research

About 5% of young adults in the U.S. say their gender is different from their sex assigned at birth.​

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I doubt there are many people who are OK with their kid going to Hooters, but not with their kid (of the same age) seeing a drag queen, or vice versa.

The main issue with all this drag queen silliness is that certain people seem to think it's vitally important that 6 year olds hear Dr Seuss stories from drag queens. Sure, it's basically harmless and it shouldn't be illegal or anything. It's just weird and pretty sus. The same is true of taking a 6 year old to Hooters, or putting a 6 year old in a beauty pageant, etc. If someone considers any of this stuff an important part of their child's development...I have questions.

It's stupid and I think that, like any fad, in a year or so we won't hear jack squat about drag queen storytime because it will fall apart and disappear.
That said, if anyone has questions, dig this:


Uncle Miltie and Bob Hope used to dress up in drag every year, sometimes twice a year.



Bugs Bunny regularly dressed up in drag to bamboozle his targets.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Your entire premise is flawed because Drag Queen Story Hour is not a sexualized event.

There is in inherent disagreement we have. One, being a "drag queen" is inherently a sexual thing - these are not just transwomen showing up in pantsuits and double-knits, or dressing/appearing like a normal woman - being a drag queen is to be over-the-top, ostentatious, and heightened sexually in appearance, demonstrating a caricature of a woman, not appearing as women generally appear. Women do not dress like drag queens. Two, in many examples that we see, there is not just a person showing up to read a normal story to the kids - there are examples of the kids being physically rolling around on/with the drag queen, the drag queens talking about their ideological messages, and drag queens in revealing outfits moving in sexualized ways.

I am not even sure why you would think it was a sexualized event.

Because being a drag queen is sexualized inherently. These are clownish versions of women - caricatures. https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/06/26/why-do-children-need-drag-queen-story-hour/

Public libraries host all sorts of public events and its up to the person or parent whether they want to attend it.

Sure they do, and depending on the event, people object to the events, as they are free to do.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

There is in inherent disagreement we have. One, being a "drag queen" is inherently a sexual thing - these are not just transwomen showing up in pantsuits and double-knits, or dressing/appearing like a normal woman - being a drag queen is to be over-the-top, ostentatious, and heightened sexually in appearance, demonstrating a caricature of a woman, not appearing as women generally appear. Women do not dress like drag queens. Two, in many examples that we see, there is not just a person showing up to read a normal story to the kids - there are examples of the kids being physically rolling around on/with the drag queen, the drag queens talking about their ideological messages, and drag queens in revealing outfits moving in sexualized ways.

Because being a drag queen is sexualized inherently. These are clownish versions of women - caricatures. https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/06/26/why-do-children-need-drag-queen-story-hour/

Sure they do, and depending on the event, people object to the events, as they are free to do.

Have you ever been to a drag show?

 

[CLAX1911]

Remember transphobe means that you're straight or gay, meaning you don't have sex with people of the same sex even though they identify as the opposite gender so who cares about being consistent in this screwball paradigm.

I remember when I was younger trying to explain to people that I couldn't just change my sexuality and now they expect you to or you're a transphobe.

It's a completely insane paradigm that nobody can be consistent in

 

[jmotivator]

Then they would push for making Hooters a mandatory 18+ establishment. Card everyone at the door. No card or under 18, you don't get in.

The transphobes would also say horrible things about Hooters and the waitresses. Way worse than anything they deserve.

In reality, the transphobes don't say a damn thing because they know it's not the end of the world if a youngster sees a woman in cleavage. But let a youth be exposed to the slightest bit of LGBTQ sexuality, and transphobes lose their minds. They want to sanitize children's minds.

(FWIW, I would be against this 18+ measure. It's up to families to regulate what their kids are exposed to. I'm just showing the hypocrisy of the transphobes.)

Well, no, to be consistent they would oppose Hooter Girls Story Hour at the public libraries and school libraries, and oppose the idea that Hooters Girls runway shows where girls shake their boobs in the face of children, twerk and spread their legs are "family friendly" ... which I'm guessing most of them do.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Well, no, to be consistent they would oppose Hooter Girls Story Hour at the public libraries and school libraries, and oppose the idea that Hooters Girls runway shows where girls shake their boobs in the face of children, twerk and spread their legs are "family friendly" ... which I'm guessing most of them do.

Indeed.

 

[Scrabaholic]

You fail to recognize a core difference between the two subjects. One is a real woman and the other is pretending to be.

I take it you don't watch Mrs Brown's Boys.

 

[Scrabaholic]

People can't be "born" transgender. There isn't a transgender gene, and there is no test to determine transgenderism at birth.

"Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time." https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1

It is not possible to be born identifying as "socially constructed characteristics." It is impossible to be born identifying as "norms, behaviours, and roles associated with being a woman/man/girl/boy, which can vary by society and change over time." One can only identify with a social construct by learning/experiencing the social construct.

How can a baby have an identity which is socially constructed?

Studies have shown that the brains of tg persons more closely resemble their chosen gender as opposed to their assigned gender.

 

[roguenuke]

Drag can be tailored to any audience, just like an actor can be in a horror film and also a children's film.

Pantomime is a traditional children's Christmas theatre show where female characters are portrayed by men.

Pantomime dame - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The first time I went to a theater production outside my school (school plays) was in elementary school and it was a professional kabuki production (although I remember them making an announcement during the first few lines of the show about how they had to perform it in English because of the multiple school groups in the audience, meant as a comedic interlude, this was in NC). Since even modern Kabuki theater is all-male, that means we were watching men playing women. That was in the 80s. I don't remember a lot about that experience beyond a few flashes of memory, and knowing that the women would all be played by men and that it was funny.

 

[roguenuke]

No more than Hooters, which after all is just attractive women wearing tank tops and shorts.


Right, I don't think anyone is saying it should be illegal. Just that it's weird to take young kids to a drag queen, and inappropriate to include in a school curriculum for young kids.

Actually, Tennessee is looking at making it illegal to take your kid to any sort of drag queen show or to perform in front of children in drag.

 

[roguenuke]

How many "Hooter Girls Story Time" events for kindergarten are held?

So I found an interesting thread regarding Hooters from about a decade ago on this site.

NOW Sues Hooters Over "Future Hooters Girl" Children's T-Shirts

SAN FRANCISCO — The National Organization for Women filed complaints against local Hooters restaurants Thursday,.......The subject this time was Hooters’ catering to children. What’s more, the organization said, Hooters provides child menus, high chairs and booster seats, and sells T-shirts in...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Schism]

So I found an interesting thread regarding Hooters from about a decade ago on this site.

NOW Sues Hooters Over "Future Hooters Girl" Children's T-Shirts

SAN FRANCISCO — The National Organization for Women filed complaints against local Hooters restaurants Thursday,.......The subject this time was Hooters’ catering to children. What’s more, the organization said, Hooters provides child menus, high chairs and booster seats, and sells T-shirts in...

debatepolitics.com

Yeah, a decade ago women were important, now they have to shut up and sit down and accept men in their bathrooms and locker rooms and competitions.

 

[roguenuke]

Yeah, a decade ago women were important, now they have to shut up and sit down and accept men in their bathrooms and locker rooms and competitions.

A decade ago, transgender women were also still using women bathrooms, but they weren't generally being accosted or harassed for doing so by most people. I in fact had a transgender gym teacher in MS in the 90s.