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If Jesus were not crucified and resurrected ,would you still believe in Him ?

If Jesus were not crucified and resurrected ,would you still believe in Him ?

  • Total voters
    23
countryboy said:
Of course Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, to do so is considered polytheism. But the Koran mentions that Christian belief holds that Mary is part of the Trinity. Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough.
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ok now I get it
 
Medusa said:
prophets were humans with miracles.
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I don't exactly believe in miracles...except for that one when the USA beat Russia in hockey during the 1980 Olympics.
 
calamity said:
I am fine with Christ just being a man who ran around preaching things like love your neighbor, care for the poor and don't be greedy. I do find it interesting that so many people deny that part of his existance while clinging to his resurrection. It tells me all I need to know about them.
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When I was a Christian and I experienced the same questions and doubt about God, Jesus, Mary, resurrection and other things most Christians have. Primarily I was taught and told that many of the answers lied in a question of faith. When there was no real proof there would be and should be faith. I had little trouble at all accepting "love of your neighbor, care for the poor", the avoidance of greed and the lessons Jesus taught. Over time I saw more organized emphasis on who Jesus was and less on what Jesus taught. To me the lessons Jesus taught took a back seat to the worship of trivia and minutia of the bible rather than the lessons within.

I would imagine focus on ritual and religious text and trivia is inherent to all religions. It certainly happens in Buddhism. It probably happens in Islam. That's not to say it occurs with everyone in every religion. I would say that it is common practice, however.

There is a story in Buddhism that applies well to Christianity and perhaps to Islam and other faiths. Rather than tell the story, which I would surely butcher, I'll paraphrase.

People find themselves on the shore of a land that is harsh, often brutal, hateful, unfulfilling and not peaceful. In the distance across water there is a land that is not harsh, a land that offers fulfillment, the opportunity of peace, a land where there is love and compassion. Seeking to live in that land people build their individual boats to cross the water. For many the boat building is not an easy task, but they complete their boats and set out for the better place.

Once people arrive in the new land they find that they can in fact enjoy peace, fulfillment, love and compassion. Many people no longer needing the boats they made they leave them to begin focusing on living in the manner in which they longed for. They begin to work on peace, fulfillment, love and compassion. Others have become so attached to their boats that they continue to carry them on their backs wherever they go. The boats are a hindrance and a burden on land. The boats greatly slow the progress of the people who insist on carrying the boats around on land. For them true peace, fulfillment, love and compassion is hindered by their attachment to the boat.

If Jesus was not crucified and resurrected would it change the lessons of peace, love and understanding that Jesus taught? I never have believed that it would. I do believe that some Christians obsess over it and pay less attention to lessons Jesus taught.
 
Risky Thicket said:
When I was a Christian and I experienced the same questions and doubt about God, Jesus, Mary, resurrection and other things most Christians have. Primarily I was taught and told that many of the answers lied in a question of faith. When there was no real proof there would be and should be faith. I had little trouble at all accepting "love of your neighbor, care for the poor", the avoidance of greed and the lessons Jesus taught. Over time I saw more organized emphasis on who Jesus was and less on what Jesus taught. To me the lessons Jesus taught took a back seat to the worship of trivia and minutia of the bible rather than the lessons within.

I would imagine focus on ritual and religious text and trivia is inherent to all religions. It certainly happens in Buddhism. It probably happens in Islam. That's not to say it occurs with everyone in every religion. I would say that it is common practice, however.

There is a story in Buddhism that applies well to Christianity and perhaps to Islam and other faiths. Rather than tell the story, which I would surely butcher, I'll paraphrase.

People find themselves on the shore of a land that is harsh, often brutal, hateful, unfulfilling and not peaceful. In the distance across water there is a land that is not harsh, a land that offers fulfillment, the opportunity of peace, a land where there is love and compassion. Seeking to live in that land people build their individual boats to cross the water. For many the boat building is not an easy task, but they complete their boats and set out for the better place.

Once people arrive in the new land they find that they can in fact enjoy peace, fulfillment, love and compassion. Many people no longer needing the boats they made they leave them to begin focusing on living in the manner in which they longed for. They begin to work on peace, fulfillment, love and compassion. Others have become so attached to their boats that they continue to carry them on their backs wherever they go. The boats are a hindrance and a burden on land. The boats greatly slow the progress of the people who insist on carrying the boats around on land. For them true peace, fulfillment, love and compassion is hindered by their attachment to the boat.

If Jesus was not crucified and resurrected would it change the lessons of peace, love and understanding that Jesus taught? I never have believed that it would. I do believe that some Christians obsess over it and pay less attention to lessons Jesus taught.
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I like it.
I also like the Buddhist saying about Christians, that there's a finger pointing at the moon and Christians are looking at the finger.

Your parable illustrates perfectly why I can't be a Christian despite believing in almost everything Christ taught. That, and the concept of original sin. I can't believe in original sin so I can't accept that I was born needing redemption.
 
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dimensionallava said:
the Resurrection myth can be traced back to atleast ancient egypt, the god Osiris, who was crucified and came back to life three days later, this is symbolic of the winter solstice, which symbolizes the death of "the sun", its three days of standing still on the equinox, then rising back into the sky, and bringing new life for the next harvest. The word solctice comes from "sun standing still" then it "comes back to life" or starts to rise again, on the 3rd day.
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Adam and Eve back in about 4000 BC knew about Jesus and the resurrection, and taught their offspring the gospel of Christ. So similarities of it in other religions is just remnants of the pure original that survived. The winter solstice stuff is interesting. Maybe that is part of the symbolism on why the prophet Joseph Smith was born on the winter solstice. It is symbolic of Christ.
 
Medusa said:
Qoran claims he was neither crucified nor resurrected but muslims accept him as a holy prophet not matter what he is .the same thing is valid for all christians ?the Parables of Christ would not be worth believing if he was just a normal prophet ? the main teaching of christianity is really based on his resurrection ? if so why ? He was different than many other prophets and used to have a more spiritual way of life too.resurrection is needed ?

thanks for voting
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If the Muslims believed Jesus to be a prophet, then why didn't they believe him when he said, "I am the way and the truth and the life; no man comes to the father except through me." - John 14:6
 
Risky Thicket said:
When I was a Christian and I experienced the same questions and doubt about God, Jesus, Mary, resurrection and other things most Christians have. Primarily I was taught and told that many of the answers lied in a question of faith. When there was no real proof there would be and should be faith. I had little trouble at all accepting "love of your neighbor, care for the poor", the avoidance of greed and the lessons Jesus taught. Over time I saw more organized emphasis on who Jesus was and less on what Jesus taught. To me the lessons Jesus taught took a back seat to the worship of trivia and minutia of the bible rather than the lessons within.

I would imagine focus on ritual and religious text and trivia is inherent to all religions. It certainly happens in Buddhism. It probably happens in Islam. That's not to say it occurs with everyone in every religion. I would say that it is common practice, however.

There is a story in Buddhism that applies well to Christianity and perhaps to Islam and other faiths. Rather than tell the story, which I would surely butcher, I'll paraphrase.

People find themselves on the shore of a land that is harsh, often brutal, hateful, unfulfilling and not peaceful. In the distance across water there is a land that is not harsh, a land that offers fulfillment, the opportunity of peace, a land where there is love and compassion. Seeking to live in that land people build their individual boats to cross the water. For many the boat building is not an easy task, but they complete their boats and set out for the better place.

Once people arrive in the new land they find that they can in fact enjoy peace, fulfillment, love and compassion. Many people no longer needing the boats they made they leave them to begin focusing on living in the manner in which they longed for. They begin to work on peace, fulfillment, love and compassion. Others have become so attached to their boats that they continue to carry them on their backs wherever they go. The boats are a hindrance and a burden on land. The boats greatly slow the progress of the people who insist on carrying the boats around on land. For them true peace, fulfillment, love and compassion is hindered by their attachment to the boat.

If Jesus was not crucified and resurrected would it change the lessons of peace, love and understanding that Jesus taught? I never have believed that it would. I do believe that some Christians obsess over it and pay less attention to lessons Jesus taught.
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I would agree. Why should it matter is he was resurrected or not? It's the lessons he taught that matter.
 
Logicman said:
If the Muslims believed Jesus to be a prophet, then why didn't they believe him when he said, "I am the way and the truth and the life; no man comes to the father except through me." - John 14:6
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Because they didn't believe him to be the true prophet.
 
Logicman said:
If the Muslims believed Jesus to be a prophet, then why didn't they believe him when he said, "I am the way and the truth and the life; no man comes to the father except through me." - John 14:6
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there was no muslim when jesus was alive but muslims have to believe in him logically,muslims have to believe in moses too
 
dimensionallava said:
the Resurrection myth can be traced back to atleast ancient egypt, the god Osiris, who was crucified and came back to life three days later, this is symbolic of the winter solstice, which symbolizes the death of "the sun", its three days of standing still on the equinox, then rising back into the sky, and bringing new life for the next harvest. The word solctice comes from "sun standing still" then it "comes back to life" or starts to rise again, on the 3rd day.
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Not a chance.

First, you can't pinpoint who in Christianity supposedly 'copied' the Osiris myth, or when and where it was copied.

Second,

"Osiris was murdered and his body was then dismembered and scattered. Later, his body pieces were recovered and rejoined, and he was rejuvenated. Osiris then journeyed to the underworld, where he became the lord of the dead. He did not resurrect with a glorified body and walk with men on earth, as did Jesus. He was not alive again, as was Jesus, but was instead a “dead” god who never returned among the living."

"In the end, similarities between Jesus and mythological precursors fail to invalidate the historicity of Jesus. The historical veracity of Jesus is determined from the evidence supporting the reliability of the eyewitness accounts. Jesus is not simply a retelling of Mithraic mythology."

Is Jesus Simply a Retelling of the Osiris Mythology? | Cold Case Christianity

So, all you have is unfounded conjecture.
 
Logicman said:
They didn't say he was a false prophet, did they? Where?
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My previous statement was inaccurate. They don't believe Jesus the final prophet, as the final prophet is Mohammad according to the Quran.

The Quran also states that Jesus himself never claimed to be the Son of God, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgement, and God will vindicate him.
 
Medusa said:
who didnt believe ? muslims have no other choice than to accept Christ as a prophet
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My statement was inaccurate. They don't consider Jesus to be the final prophet. Nor do they consider Jesus to have divinity.
 
TheGoverness said:
My statement was inaccurate. They don't consider Jesus to be the final prophet. Nor do they consider Jesus to have divinity.
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they believe he has a spiritual position as a prophet
 
Without the death and resurrection there is no redemption of sin.
there is no point. Salvation is moot at that point.

Either Christ was who he said he was or he was lying. there is no middle road.
this is why Christ said broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and there are few that find it.

Christ was the Son of God and is God. The creator and savior of this world.
He is the alpha and the omega the beginning and.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
He was not the son of God. God doesn't exist.

There were many so-called Messiahs sent to save us who were crucified. (See the work of excellent historian Lynn Picknett: Mary Magdalene: Lynn Picknett: 9780786713110: Amazon.com: Books)

Jesus wasn't the only one, he just got the best PR job.
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why read someone who continues to spout the same myths that have already been debunked and destroyed?
that doesn't sound very logical to me.

Mary Magdalene was nothing more than another follow of Christ. nothing more nothing less.

also attempting to state your opinion as a fact will need evidence,
however we all know that you don't have evidence that God does not exist.

therefore your opinion is noted and rejected.
 
TheGoverness said:
My previous statement was inaccurate. They don't believe Jesus the final prophet, as the final prophet is Mohammad according to the Quran.

The Quran also states that Jesus himself never claimed to be the Son of God, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgement, and God will vindicate him.
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They never read John 8:58 or the following. Jesus did indeed claim to be God.

https://righterreport.com/2007/09/08/did-jesus-claim-to-be-god/
 
Urethra Franklin said:
He was not the son of God. God doesn't exist.

There were many so-called Messiahs sent to save us who were crucified. (See the work of excellent historian Lynn Picknett: Mary Magdalene: Lynn Picknett: 9780786713110: Amazon.com: Books)

Jesus wasn't the only one, he just got the best PR job.
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He's the only one who raised HIMSELF from the dead to prove his divinity. From my previous link:

“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up . . . but he spoke of the temple of his body” (John 2:19, 21, KJV). The ability to raise His life back from the dead was the sign that separates Him not only from all other religious leaders, but also from anyone else who has ever lived.
 
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