If abortion had been illegal... [W:281]

[CRUE CAB]

She didn't know she was going to get pregnant with me so it was like she terminated the pregnancy SO THAT I could happen. I'm saying that because of the terminated pregnancy that she chose to have I was able to be conceived.

So? What is your point?

 

[sangha]

Often pro-lifers are accused of not being there or helping someone who chooses life for their baby.

Maybe it has something to do with how the right wingers are whining about how maternity coverage is required under ACA

 

[year2late]

I am sure your mother is a decent person, but she was wrong to have the abortion. Unless it was a pregnancy from rape, which I hope was not the case.

Is a child from rape less of a living being to you?

I do not get the exceptions. If one believes that abortion is wrong because it is killing a living being - why any such exceptions?

 

[X Factor]

Maybe it has something to do with how the right wingers are whining about how maternity coverage is required under ACA

Is that what the "whining" is about or it is about having the freedom and choice to choose an insurance plan specific to our own needs? I'm never going to need maternity coverage, so the government should not get to dictate to me that I must have it anyway.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Is a child from rape less of a living being to you?

I do not get the exceptions. If one believes that abortion is wrong because it is killing a living being - why any such exceptions?

I think it would be hard to convince a woman to take a pregnancy to term that was the result of a rape.

 

[X Factor]

Is a child from rape less of a living being to you?

I do not get the exceptions. If one believes that abortion is wrong because it is killing a living being - why any such exceptions?

I understand your point. By the same token, I don't understand why abortion is perfectly fine before viability then suddenly draws all this concern post viability. If the argument is "her body her choice" then that should hold true all the way through pregnancy.

 

[year2late]

I think it would be hard to convince a woman to take a pregnancy to term that was the result of a rape.

If you believe abortion is killing , why would you care what you would be able to convince someone of?

How about this -what about the woman who knows that if she takes a pregnancy to term, she knows she throw her born child into poverty and into substandard and possibly dangerous living conditions? That is a very common reason for abortion. How is that "less worthy" of abortion than the rape victim?

 

[X Factor]

If you believe abortion is killing , why would you care what you would be able to convince someone of?

How about this -what about the woman who knows that if she takes a pregnancy to term, she knows she throw her born child into poverty and into substandard and possibly dangerous living conditions? That is a very common reason for abortion. How is that "less worthy" of abortion than the rape victim?

Ah yes, the "all unplanned children are destined for poverty and abuse"'argument.

 

[year2late]

I understand your point. By the same token, I don't understand why abortion is perfectly fine before viability then suddenly draws all this concern post viability. If the argument is "her body her choice" then that should hold true all the way through pregnancy.

I think the point in that argument is physical dependence on the mother to exist. When they reach the viable point, they can exist without the body of the mother and therefor can be a potentially separate individual.

But of course... these types of arguments gloss over the absolute reality that abortions at the point of viability are very rare.

 

[year2late]

Ah yes, the "all unplanned children are destined for poverty and abuse"'argument.

Never said all. How dishonest of you.

 

[CRUE CAB]

If you believe abortion is killing , why would you care what you would be able to convince someone of?

How about this -what about the woman who knows that if she takes a pregnancy to term, she knows she throw her born child into poverty and into substandard and possibly dangerous living conditions? That is a very common reason for abortion. How is that "less worthy" of abortion than the rape victim?

Because killing with just justification is different, just like we put murderers and child rapists to death.

 

[X Factor]

No she absolutely would have cared for it in the best possible way she could have, but the lifestyle she was in at the time would not afford for that child to have been in a good environment. She decided that abortion worked best for her at the time because of her own reasons which really aren't any of your business. If my mother had been in a position to carry to term and keep that child, I wouldn't be here and that would be fine. In the case of me being able to be alive today then I find that it is a good for me that that pregnancy didn't happen. Would it have been better that she had never gotten pregnant to begin with? Definitely. That would have saved her a lot of emotional trauma. Would I be here today if she hadn't even gotten pregnant with that first child? No, and that's okay too.

All I'm really saying is that things happen in life the way they're supposed to and those "things" also happen to be abortions. There are many amazing people in this world today doing amazing things that wouldn't exist today if their mother's hadn't been allowed to choose to have an abortion. In the same regard I'd also say that there could have been many amazing people in the world if their pregnancy had not been terminated, but at the same time there may have also been some really terrible serial killers and rapists that were terminated as well. We have no idea. It's just more fun for pro-birth people to pretend that every single fetus that was terminated would have been a doctor, or a lawyer, or a president some day.

Things happen for a reason. In the case of my mother the "thing" (her abortion) happened and the reasoning was her own, but that reason resulted in my birth to be able to have happened.

Actually, we object to the destruction of the preborn because of what they are today, not because of what they may some day become. All those speculations about how abortion rids of us of would be rapists and murders could be used to justify killing born babies as well, since we don't know, at that point what they'll grow up to be. I oppose their destruction as well.

 

[X Factor]

I think the point in that argument is physical dependence on the mother to exist. When they reach the viable point, they can exist without the body of the mother and therefor can be a potentially separate individual.

Sorry, if you're going to insist we all be pro-life with no exceptions then I get to insist that you be pro abortion rights with no limitations. Why are you the only ones who get to tailor your positions? What does it matter what they "could" or "can" potentially be? Given enough time, they all could be viable preborn but you reject that as any kind of a concern.

But of course... these types of arguments gloss over the absolute reality that abortions at the point of viability are very rare.

No thanks to you.

 

[sangha]

Is that what the "whining" is about or it is about having the freedom and choice to choose an insurance plan specific to our own needs? I'm never going to need maternity coverage, so the government should not get to dictate to me that I must have it anyway.

IOW, you care about supporting those who have chosen to continue their pregnancies, as long as it doesn't cost you anything

 

[JayDubya]

My mother had an abortion before she got pregnant with me. I don't think I have asked her what her reasoning was behind having the abortion because honestly it doesn't matter. It was her life and her situation, it happened to her, and she grew from it. If she had not had that abortion I would not be here today.

No honestly the reasoning doesn't matter, she still selfishly took a human life in coldblooded aggression for her own personal gain.

No matter who they are, who they know, who they are related to, what their gender, etc., such a person - and I'm being generous with that word - invariably should be held where they cannot hurt anyone else.

You say that you are here because your mother committed that heinous act on your sibling.

Well I suppose that is true in a sense - sexual reproduction being what it is, genetic lottery being what it is, if the dice are rolled at a different time or a different way, the specific offspring created will invariably be different. The truth of that sentiment doesn't justify a thing, doesn't change a thing - if anything in our parents or our parents' parents or our parents' parents' parents lives had been slightly different we wouldn't be here, so you could use that logic to justify anything anyone ever does.


There are plenty of people here because their mothers weren't selfishly destructive as well, and we appreciate that and wish for more folks to have the opportunity to choose for themselves whether their own life is worth living.

 

[year2late]

Because killing with just justification is different, just like we put murderers and child rapists to death.

So "kill" the fetus for the sins of the father?

 

[JayDubya]

So "kill" the fetus for the sins of the father?

That is assuredly what you people want, although due to your use of quotation marks, it is apparent your bigotry so warps any hope of perceiving reality that you don't even realize that a homicide does in fact involve a killing act.

 

[CRUE CAB]

So "kill" the fetus for the sins of the father?

Consessions must be made. Or you will have women going back to back allys and kitchen tables for abortions.
Would you carry to term a product of a rape, or have your wife or daughter?

 

[CRUE CAB]

That is assuredly what you people want, although due to your use of quotation marks, it is apparent your bigotry so warps any hope of perceiving reality that you don't even realize that a homicide does in fact involve a killing act.

And there you have it, oh so liberal tolerance. With full expectation and demands that others be tolerant of them.

 

[JayDubya]

And there you have it, oh so liberal tolerance. With full expectation and demands that others be tolerant of them.

With any due respect, I certainly don't agree with your rape exception...

A rapist is evil and aggressive and should be punished to the full extent of the law. The victim and every other potential victim should be kept safe from such a broken thing.

However, being a victim of an aggressive act from a second party does not in any way justify even more severe aggression against a third party. A "rape exception" is nothing less than an execution of a kid for the sins of his or her father - such an action is absolutely repugnant.

What was contemptible in year2late's post was the notion that no killing even occurs - that is absurd and ignorant of objective, scientific fact.

 

[1750Texan]

So the death of the unborn to "hopefully" provide live for another is acceptable? That is like saying I would run out in traffic to save my child, because I may get run over and killed.
Selfishness, a true attribute to the progressive liberal.

That comment is nonsensical. I hesitated in even refering to it as an example or an analogy.

 

[CRUE CAB]

With any due respect, I certainly don't agree with your rape exception...

A rapist is evil and aggressive and should be punished to the full extent of the law. The victim and every other potential victim should be kept safe from such a broken thing.

However, being a victim of one aggressive act from a second party does not in any way justify violence against a third party. A "rape exception" is nothing less than an execution for the sins of the father.

What was contemptible in year2late's post was the notion that no killing even occurs - that is absurd and ignorant of objective, scientific fact.

How do you propose to eliminate a womans ability to abort a pregnancy for a rape? And you haven't answered the question. Would you carry or insist your wife carry?

 

[year2late]

Sorry, if you're going to insist we all be pro-life with no exceptions then I get to insist that you be pro abortion rights with no limitations. Why are you the only ones who get to tailor your positions? What does it matter what they "could" or "can" potentially be? Given enough time, they all could be viable preborn but you reject that as any kind of a concern.



No thanks to you.

First of all, individually I am anti abortion.

I am insisting on nothing. Just indicating that since a frequent refrain from "pro-lifers" is "abortion is murder or killing" - I do not get the hypocritical notion that it is no longer killing or murder if we are speaking to a rape victim.

In terms of the point of viability...I can see my way through the hypocrisy....one of the frequent arguments from the pro choice crowd is that the fetus is totally dependent on the mother's physical resources ( sometimes to the danger and detriment of her own body). So a fetus that could be born and survive independent of mother's resources would no longer fit that bill.

But again, when you bring up late term abortion, you are speaking to a distinct minority of abortions - that frequently are due to tragic circumstances.

I say that anyone that is ok with abortion in the case of rape or incest is by definition - pro-choice.

 

[JayDubya]

How do you propose to eliminate a womans ability to abort a pregnancy for a rape?

Folks can always do awful things to each other, have been for as long as we've been recording the history of human civilization, and there probably always will be those willing to hurt others for their own personal gain.

Just laws are not a magical panacea. There's no Minority Report precrime unit (nor would we want one).

Just laws against aggression do allow for locking aggressors up where they can't hurt anyone else, though.

Would you carry or insist your wife carry?

a) I don't have the right plumbing,

b) I don't have to insist anything. For starters I feel pretty confident in my wife's ability to shoot anyone who tried. For seconds neither of us would ever kill another human being in aggression - that would be evil and would go against everything we stand for.

 

[CRUE CAB]

That comment is nonsensical. I hesitated in even refering to it as an example or an analogy.

I meant "wouldn't"