If a woman's right to terminate were overturned

[Josie]

I find it interesting that the pro-life movement is under the perception that criminalizing abortion would end abortion.

I'm not under that perception at all. I think it would lower the rate, but not stop it completely. I would like to see people prosecuted for killing unborn children.

 

[Barbbtx]

She needs to forgive herself. Seriously. If it is a sin, and that's her belief set, then God will forgive - it's right in there with every other sin. Seriously.

No, but you did let her down when she needed you most.

Let me get this straight. She refused to help her semi-daughter get an abortion. The semi-daughter now regrets having that abortion. So how did she let her down? If she HAD helped her get the abortion she might partially blame her for helping. I pray she can get past it and forgive herself as God will forgive her if she asks.
I could never be a part of helping someone get an abortion. In fact I had a friend who did help her daughters friend get one. She took her to Planned Parent Hood, then gave her a ride to the clinic. She may have even helped pay for it. I know it made me sick to my stomache. I did my best to talk this 26 yr old out of it to no avail and then to have my friend help her was a little much for me. Being pro-life that I am, I felt I was watching someone I love participate in a murder.

 

[1069]

Let me get this straight. She refused to help her semi-daughter get an abortion. The semi-daughter now regrets having that abortion. So how did she let her down? If she HAD helped her get the abortion she might partially blame her for helping. I pray she can get past it and forgive herself as God will forgive her if she asks.

Number one, Goshin's a dude.
And number two, what the hell is a "semi-daughter"?
It's either his daughter or it's not, and it's not, so WTF?
He's just trying to make his role in this story sound more meaningful than it actually was, to prove his point that "I've been there. I know what I'm talking about."
As usual. :roll:

He's never had his feet in stirrups, however, so in fact he hasn't "been there", nor does he really know what he's talking about.
Also as usual.

His so-called "semi-daughter" probably tells him that she has nightmares about her aborted fetus from which she wakes up crying because that's the way he thinks things are, and that's what he wants to hear. Duh.

In real life, so many people are sooo accommodating. All they want to do is please everybody, validate everybody's viewpoints.
As in the time of Diogenes the Cynic, it's sometimes impossible to find the one honest man. Or woman.

 

[Barbbtx]

Number one, Goshin's a dude.
And number two, what the hell is a "semi-daughter"?
It's either his daughter or it's not, and it's not, so WTF?
He's just trying to make his role in this story sound more meaningful than it actually was, to prove his point that "I've been there. I know what I'm talking about."
As usual. :roll:

He's never had his feet in stirrups, however, so in fact he hasn't "been there", nor does he really know what he's talking about.
Also as usual.

His so-called "semi-daughter" probably tells him that she has nightmares about her aborted fetus from which she wakes up crying because that's the way he thinks things are, and that's what he wants to hear. Duh.

In real life, so many people are sooo accommodating. All they want to do is please everybody, validate everybody's viewpoints.
As in the time of Diogenes the Cynic, it's sometimes impossible to find the one honest man. Or woman.

Hey Goshin, so sorry I called you a girl :3oops:.....you just seem so sensitive and kind I thought you had to be female.:lol:
Anyway, what the hec is a semi-daughter??? 1069 wants know.:2wave:

 

[Mell]

He's never had his feet in stirrups, ...

EeK!! Neither have I. I thought, doctors insisting on that has been done away with in most western countries, due to so many objections from women. They even stopped the prebirth shaving thing they used to do in Ireland(and I dont know where else) because of the alarmed 'what the hell are you doing' it caused from a lot of women just about to give birth.

 

[Goshin]

I almost pushed to agree with Goshin's statement, but then realized he was making my case (while attempting to do so in the opposite direction).

We have EVERYTHING. Teaching, knowledge, education, condoms, the pill, the morning after pill, - whatever you can think of, our kids are learning. So WHY are there so many abortions? And why do you believe that if women couldn't abort anymore, they'd have a light bulb moment and somehow choose abstinence (because they knew about all the other stuff, and THAT didn't work).

Actually, in that particular post, I wasn't attempted to make any cases in either a pro- or anti- sense, but simply expressing my opinion that a million abortion a year seems odd in light of all the contraceptive options and information that are available.

Amusingly enough, in a thread about abstinence being taught in sex-ed, I took the position that both abstinence and "safe sex" should be taught in schools. I advocated that abstinence was the only certain method of avoiding unwanted pregnancy (especially talking about teenagers and college students, for obvious reasons: they aren't ready to deal with having a baby in most cases) and STD's, as "safe sex" wasn't entirely safe.

I was thoroughly blasted and told that my assumptions and figures about the failure rates for condoms were flat wrong, and that safe-sex really was VERY safe.

Despite the fact that I said BOTH should be taught, people acted as if I were advocating "abstinence-only" which I wasn't. :doh

Now in a different thread some of the same people are telling me we have to have abortion because safe sex isn't all that safe. :lamo

So which is it? Is safe-sex "Safe" or isn't it? If it is, why so many abortions when almost every kid in America gets taught safe-sex in school? :mrgreen:

 

[BDBoop]

Beats the sh!t out of me. I haven't been here long enough to have participated in the thread in question.

 

[mac]

Is that what you got out of his statement? How bizarre. How did you reach that conclusion, if I might ask.

In one out of every three posts he's accusing someone of being dishonest. That's how. Apparently it's only possible to have a differing opinion with prom if you're a lier.

 

[MaggieD]

A womens chance of gaining a responsible father for her child are a lottery.

A woman's chance of gaining a responsible father 'lie squarely on her shoulders,' to borrow a few of your words.
----------------------

Is abortion legal because it is a form of population control? It would be interesting to know the demographics of those who chose them. Oh, wait, here we go:

Although abortion rates have declined among all racial and ethnic groups, large disparities persist, with Hispanic and black women having the procedure at rates three to five times the rate of white women.

Interesting. Just....interesting. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202831.html

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

A woman's chance of gaining a responsible father 'lie squarely on her shoulders,' to borrow a few of your words.
----------------------

Is abortion legal because it is a form of population control? It would be interesting to know the demographics of those who chose them. Oh, wait, here we go:
Interesting. Just....interesting. Study Finds Major Shift in Abortion Demographics - washingtonpost.com

Seems like blacks and hispanic's get more abortions because they get pregnant more often.

 

[MaggieD]

That's certainly one way to view it. Another could be that blacks and hispanics are poorer. Both might indicate population control, yes?

White women -- 60.1 births per 1,000 population
Hispanic women -- 77.4 BPK
Black women -- 68.5 BPK

I'd say those are interesting statistics and show what's happening to our population. What would the rates be if abortion was illegal?

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s0092.pdf

 

[OKgrannie]

A woman's chance of gaining a responsible father 'lie squarely on her shoulders,' to borrow a few of your words.
----------------------

Is abortion legal because it is a form of population control? It would be interesting to know the demographics of those who chose them. Oh, wait, here we go:
Interesting. Just....interesting. Study Finds Major Shift in Abortion Demographics - washingtonpost.com

Abortion is not a very effective means of population control since most women who have abortions go on to have children later. Of course if abortion were mandatory in certain conditions as has been in China, the result would be quite different from abortion as a choice. And if you believe that pregnancy/abortion is a subject that can be legislated by government, you can rest assured that the government that has the power to forbid abortion also has the power to require it.

 

[Orion]

Actually, in that particular post, I wasn't attempted to make any cases in either a pro- or anti- sense, but simply expressing my opinion that a million abortion a year seems odd in light of all the contraceptive options and information that are available.

Amusingly enough, in a thread about abstinence being taught in sex-ed, I took the position that both abstinence and "safe sex" should be taught in schools. I advocated that abstinence was the only certain method of avoiding unwanted pregnancy (especially talking about teenagers and college students, for obvious reasons: they aren't ready to deal with having a baby in most cases) and STD's, as "safe sex" wasn't entirely safe.

I was thoroughly blasted and told that my assumptions and figures about the failure rates for condoms were flat wrong, and that safe-sex really was VERY safe.

Despite the fact that I said BOTH should be taught, people acted as if I were advocating "abstinence-only" which I wasn't. :doh

Now in a different thread some of the same people are telling me we have to have abortion because safe sex isn't all that safe. :lamo

So which is it? Is safe-sex "Safe" or isn't it? If it is, why so many abortions when almost every kid in America gets taught safe-sex in school? :mrgreen:

I don't know when or where you received your sex education, but when I was taught, it was emphasized that the only method that is 100% safe from contracting STDs or suffering unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. We were never told that condoms were 100%. In fact, we were explicitly told that condoms break, and that condoms only cover the penis but nothing else. You can get STDs from all other skin contact, you can get them from oral sex, etc.

Maybe your sex ed was just lacking?

Also, I'm quite certain that the unwanted pregnancy rate was much higher back when abortion was illegal and there weren't protective measures for sex. I'm also quite certain that people were having sex just as much while not wanting children. Looking at a figure and calling it high is just looking at one number while ignoring long term trends. People always have and always will have sex regardless if they want a baby or not. Safer sex is just relatively safer. It reduces risk and allows for proper family planning yet still permits couples to have a healthy sexual relationship. Which leads to me to the core of this...

I think the root of this entire debate has very little to do with failure rates. It has to do with what the religious right wing thinks the function of sex should be, and when others don't adhere to that they want them to suffer consequences. They don't like the idea that people always have and always will have recreational, non-reproductive sex. For them it's all about the babies. Well, that's not reality for a lot of people. Sex has numerous functions, and I think nothing bothers you more than knowing that people - especially women - now have the freedom to have sex while mitigating the consequences.

I mean, does it please you that contraception sometimes fails? Does it make you feel more affirmed in your beliefs or something? This is nature, and nature has no hard and fast rules.

 

[Chuz Life]

I think the root of this entire debate has very little to do with failure rates. It has to do with what the religious right wing thinks the function of sex should be, and when others don't adhere to that they want them to suffer consequences. They don't like the idea that people always have and always will have recreational, non-reproductive sex. For them it's all about the babies. Well, that's not reality for a lot of people. Sex has numerous functions, and I think nothing bothers you more than knowing that people - especially women - now have the freedom to have sex while mitigating the consequences.

I'm sorry I have to break my self imposed ban here for a post or two and ask "where do those of us who oppose abortion but are not religious" fit into this analysis of yours?

 

[BDBoop]

Of course he has a stake. What he doesn't have is a say.

to pretend that he has no stake in this decision is feminism bordering on the ludicrous.

 

[BDBoop]

Then move to a country that does so.

By the way, what do you feel is a fair 'persecution'?

I would like to see people prosecuted for killing unborn children.

 

[1069]

I'm sorry I have to break my self imposed ban here for a post or two and ask "where do those of us who oppose abortion but are not religious" fit into this analysis of yours?

One does not need to be religious to be fearful of and opposed to sexual equality, and to attempt to use female biology as a weapon to oppress women by controlling their reproductive functions.

Not that you'll succeed, but you can still attempt it, whether or not Jesus is your copilot.
Unlike some here, I don't really believe religion has a lot to do with it, except insofar as religion has historically contributed to misogyny, sexism, female oppression, and gender inequity in our society.
That doesn't mean that without religion, these things wouldn't exist; they still would, just as racism still would.
Religion has merely been a historical justification for such discrimination. One of many.

 

[Chuz Life]

One does not need to be religious to be fearful of and opposed to sexual equality, and to attempt to use female biology as a weapon to oppress women by controlling their reproductive functions.

Not that you'll succeed, but you can still attempt it, whether or not Jesus is your copilot.
Unlike some here, I don't really believe religion has a lot to do with it, except insofar as religion has historically contributed to misogyny, sexism, female oppression, and gender inequity in our society.
That doesn't mean that without religion, these things wouldn't exist; they still would, just as racism still would.
Religion has merely been a historical justification for such discrimination. One of many.

That's me all right.

A Misoginistic woman-hater.

Member Login - POLITICO.com (needs updated to show my hatred for and my want to control women)

Don't go anywhere,.. I have a cup of something for you,....

 

[BDBoop]

Oh, shoot; we don't need links! We can see exactly who you are.

That's me all right.

A Misoginistic woman-hater.

Member Login - POLITICO.com (needs updated to show my hatred for and my want to control women)

Do go anywhere,.. I have a cup of something for you,....

 

[Chuz Life]

Oh, shoot; we don't need links! We can see exactly who you are.

Ditto that,....

Roll tagline.

 

[BDBoop]

And now you're delusional as well, since I didn't include links. Please go back to your self-imposed silence.

Ditto that,....

Roll tagline.

 

[Chuz Life]

And now you're delusional as well, since I didn't include links. Please go back to your self-imposed silence.

I share in your expressed view that we don't need additional links to see one another's true colors.

(thus the ditto)

The delusions are all yours.

 

[OKgrannie]

I'm sorry I have to break my self imposed ban here for a post or two and ask "where do those of us who oppose abortion but are not religious" fit into this analysis of yours?

But you are religious. You religiously worship the fetus. Just because your fetus worship isn't directed by a God or Goddess doesn't mean you're not religiously worshipping.

 

[Chuz Life]

But you are religious. You religiously worship the fetus. Just because your fetus worship isn't directed by a God or Goddess doesn't mean you're not religiously worshipping.

If I worship anything, Grannie,... I worship our Constitution and the ideals (freedom, life, equal protections and due process among others) that it stands for.

I reported your personal attack for the rules violation that it is.

 

[BDBoop]

Wow. That's a bit of a stretch.

If I worship anything, Grannie,... I worship our Constitution and the ideals (freedom, life, equal protections and due process among others) that it stands for.

I reported your personal attack for the rules violation that it is.