I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)[W:89,166]

[Moot]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Lots of things separate people from the Word. People sin, that's a given.

Do you have a point? Are you maintaining that Christians are MORE sinful than atheists?

Or are you just criticizing Christians for being Christian (which would be bigotry), and promoting the concept that they be punished for behaviors that everybody else gets a pass on?

My point is the same as the point of the thread....some Christians are giving all Christians a bad name with their rhetoric and behavior.

 

[Bicycle]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

False. I presented no such argument.

I do not claim homosexuality is "ok with God" because it was/is common. Nor do I claim that a lack of hospitality is "ok with God" because it was/is common.

I claim that law against homosexuality was ceremonial and Sodom was not condemned for violations of ceremonial law. Hospitality is a moral law, and that is what Sodom was condemned for.

Yes. I know.

In other words, homosexuality was irrelevant to the destruction of sodom.

I heard you the first second and third time you said it, and you're still wrong.

 

[Bicycle]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

My point is the same as the point of the thread....some Christians are giving all Christians a bad name with their rhetoric and behavior.

Oh, I agree.

What we disagree about is WHICH Christians are working against scripture..and the scripture I quoted showed that it isn't the ones who quote scripture.

It's the ones who tell Christians "shhh...you're annoying those people over there" and "Hey the bible isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY" and "Less scripture, more EMOTION"...lol..

 

[faithful_servant]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Well, when it comes to the Jewish scriptures, the wording that is translated as 'abomination' is 'tovah' , which means ritualistically unclean. That leads many to come to the conclusion it is specifically talking about temple male prostitution, which several of the surrounding religions at the time used for fertility rites. I find that likely, but not 100% positive. However, it does make that a reasonable position. Those practices are actually far far older than Judaism, so your claim about the restriction preceding the religious practice is not accurate. It was recorded to have been a practice of the Sumarians, in around 4000 bce.

While it does include elements of a ritual sense, it also includes elements of the ethical/moral sense. It's a word that translates poorly into English, but in the original Hebrew, it was understood to be a term that expressed an attitude of "wrong in every way". What you did was to take one piece out and try to make it the whole (taking part of the definition out of context). Look at the WHOLE meaning and not just the part that you want to believe. See, what you are doing is the same as what the OP is doing - looking only at what you want to believe and leaving out the rest, losing the truth in the process.

Transliteration:

tow`ebah {to-ay-baw'} or to`ebah {to-ay-baw'}

Word Origin:

act part of 8581

TWOT:

2530a

Part of Speech:

noun feminine

Usage in the KJV:

abomination 113, abominable thing 2, abominable 2

Total: 117

Definition:

1.a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable
A.in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages)
B.in ethical sense (of wickedness etc)

 

[Bicycle]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

It's just the same old same old...twisting of scripture to satisfy man's own desires.

 

[Moot]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Oh, I agree.

What we disagree about is WHICH Christians are working against scripture..and the scripture I quoted showed that it isn't the ones who quote scripture.

It's the ones who tell Christians "shhh...you're annoying those people over there" and "Hey the bible isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY" and "Less scripture, more EMOTION"...lol..

Are you speaking for all Christians or just yourself? Apparently, you do take the Bible literally, so what does it say about you judging others?

 

[ChezC3]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Ah, a succinct summation of selfishness and self righteousness.

22 references to "I"

I, I, I, I, I....

9 "wants"

want, want, want, want, want...



Inclusion is tied to conversion.

If you're unrepentant and unashamed, if you deny the sin you commit is in fact sin, than you're not in the club.

:shrug:

Thems the breaks...

 

[Bicycle]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Are you speaking for all Christians or just yourself? Apparently, you do take the Bible literally, so what does it say about you judging others?

The bible tells us to carefully look at ourselves introspectively before we judge others.

We do that by going to scripture.

I did.

Not so those who tell us "leave scripture out of this!"

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Yes. I know.

In other words, homosexuality was irrelevant to the destruction of sodom.

I heard you the first second and third time you said it, and you're still wrong.

Why, if Sodom existed what so ever, according to the Jewish scripture, it had nothing to do with homosexuality. It DID have to do with a lot of sins that the Christian right (not so much the Christian Left) are guilty of

Your elder sister is Samaria who lived with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you, is Sodom with her daughters. You not only followed their ways, and acted according to their abominations; within a very little time you were more corrupt than they in all your ways. As I live, says the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.

- Ezekiel 16:46-50

 

[Moot]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

The bible tells us to carefully look at ourselves introspectively before we judge others.

We do that by going to scripture.

I did.

Not so those who tell us "leave scripture out of this!"

Simply cut and pasting scripture doesn't prove or make you a Christian. But you seem to do it as harassment and to derail the thread...which isn't very Christian like, imo.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Ah, a succinct summation of selfishness and self righteousness.

22 references to "I"

I, I, I, I, I....

9 "wants"

want, want, want, want, want...



Inclusion is tied to conversion.

If you're unrepentant and unashamed, if you deny the sin you commit is in fact sin, than you're not in the club.

:shrug:

Thems the breaks...

Exactly. Christianity isn't about you. It is about God.

Unsurprisingly, a great many people in today's self-centered and hyper-materialistic culture of "instant gratification" and personal aggrandizement find this to be a fundamentally alien concept.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Yes. I know.

Then why do you keep insisting that I'm making an argument that I am -in fact- not? Do you now understand that?

 

[Moot]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Omg christians buy stuff from China!!! That's it I dont believe anymore. This is truly a moot point :lamo

From the OP...


"As a 2012 Pew Research study indicates that while the number of people who identify as Protestant or Catholic is decreasing, the number of those who consider themselves religious, but identify with no formal religious group is on the rise. An earlier study by The Barna Group defines a big part of the problem: people who aren’t in the Church and many who are in the Church believe the Church is judgmental and hypocritical.

When looked at together, the findings of these two studies make a lot of sense. An organization whose primary religious figure taught about love has become known for being judgmental against any group they simply don’t like. Is it any surprise Christians are seen as hypocritical?"

 

[ChezC3]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Exactly. Christianity isn't about you. It is about God.

Unsurprisingly, a great many people in today's self-centered and hyper-materialistic culture of "instant gratification" and personal aggrandizement find this to be a fundamentally alien concept.

Right, it isn't your Christianity and it isn't my Christianity...

We are either in Christ or we're not.

Christ is in us if we are in Him.

People rarely understand, especially in protestant circles, that to be in Christ you must give up your self. You give up your "I" because he takes over in you.

 

[Logicman]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

I disagree, and I've spent plenty of time in the word, thankyouverymuch.

I don't like what "so called Christians" have turned Christianity into.

The very word "Christian" means "Christ-like" and I don't see much of that as of late. Christ loves all people. God created all people, and all things. Only we are the ones with hubris enough to decide which ones are mistakes.

Jesus said the corrupt Jews/ Pharisees were "of their father the devil," so not all are children of God.

What's more, love (gay, adulterers) does not rejoice in iniquity (1 Cor. 13).

"And love does no harm to a neighbor" (Romans 13:10), such as enticing one's neighbor into a sinful relationship for which there are negative temporal and eternal consequences.

The kind of Christianity you want back is of your own making.

 

[Logicman]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

When looked at together, the findings of these two studies make a lot of sense. An organization whose primary religious figure taught about love has become known for being judgmental against any group they simply don’t like. Is it any surprise Christians are seen as hypocritical?"

So, adultery is ok with the Lord? Gay sex too? Have you ever read the Bible?

 

[Logicman]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

As Carl Henry so eloquently noted, “America has turned its back on God. It mocks God. Instead it worships a twentieth century Baal, incarnated in sensuality, materialism, and immorality of every kind.”

Over one hundred years ago, Catherine Booth remarked, “It is a bad sign for the Christianity of this day when it provokes so little opposition from the world. When the Church and the world can jog along together side by side comfortably, you may be sure there is something wrong.” (righterreport)

 

[Moot]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

So, adultery is ok with the Lord? Gay sex too? Have you ever read the Bible?

King David was a notorious adulterer and Jesus accepted the eunuchs, so I guess I have read the Bible.




"

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Try being Catholic. But I am never embarrassed about it, in fact I love to look people right in the eye and make it known when the subject comes up. Just to dare a negative response.
Any time you shrink from what you are, what you were raised to be, what you believe. You have become a PC ridden coward.

So you are Catholic because you were raised to be one?

I don't shrink from my beliefs, but that's because they're mine. Religion has turned, for many, into a thing that they just throw upon their children. It's disgusting really. My wife's family is confused as to why we aren't baptizing my son. When I ask them why they bring up "to save his soul" and all that jazz. If you look at my son (or any other baby) as anything other than the little ball of perfection and innocence and love that he is then you'll get no respect from me. He isn't some vile worthless wretch that needs saving. And that's what religion for the most part teaches.

Sickening.

 

[Logicman]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Why, if Sodom existed what so ever, according to the Jewish scripture, it had nothing to do with homosexuality. It DID have to do with a lot of sins that the Christian right (not so much the Christian Left) are guilty of

Nuts.

Jude 7 – “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”

 

[Logicman]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

King David was a notorious adulterer and Jesus accepted the eunuchs, so I guess I have read the Bible.

"

If Jesus was ok with adultery why did he tell the adulteress in the New Testament to "Go and sin no more"?

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

If Jesus was ok with adultery why did he tell the adulteress in the New Testament to "Go and sin no more"?

Because that part was written in later, it never appeared anywhere in the most accurate and eldest manuscripts. It's a forgery.

Jesus and the woman taken in adultery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Black Dog]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

I agree with the fact some Christians and churches are far away from what Christ taught. My main thing is he did not teach tolerance of sin or sinful behavior. He did however teach we are to lead by example and not be hypocrites. He hung with tax collectors, whores and the sick for a reason. What he did not do is try to tell the Romans how to run Rome.

Our government is secular and we are as Christians, to abide by that law. That law calls for equal and fair treatment for all, not just a select few. The Bible and the teachings of Christ are a roadmap to our spiritual salvation, not government. In all fairness if we are going to persecute homosexuals in Gods name, should not adulterers and fornicators be thrown in the mix? How about those who lie, cheat and steal? Sin is sin and to rally against one group while leaving others alone is just not right.

If churches were busy teaching about how to improve yourself, how to be a real Christian man/woman rather than rallying against a select group of people when we are all sinners, we might get to a batter place.

There is none righteous, no not one.

 

[jet57]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

Posting this article from Time.com. It was written by a pastor, and co-founder of The Christian Left. It says so much of what I feel, about how embarrassed I am at the turn Christianity has taken. I just thought it'd be a nice read for anybody who felt the way I do.

I agree. What the article addresses is how much control over the image of Christianity the far right faction has in this country. In a similar kind of way, today's Germans still carry some degree of shame over far right activities and control in their country's history as well as it's not really a good idea to to travel to some countries and brag about being an American. Thee have always been hard line Chrostians dating back to the Roman period, but in this country religion was intentionally given a political back seat precisely because of the trouble religous control brings into government. So this pastor is really speaking for a great deal Americans, religious or not in my view, about how far backwards our society has gone when evengelical Christinaity was given a seat at the table. I applaud his efforst and hope to see more even minded Christians getting involved with taking back their religion.

 

[Superfly]

Re: I Want My Christianity Back (Without the Ugly Baggage)

If you resent scripture in a discussion about how awful Christians are, where you are questioning the "Christianity" of people you don't agree with politically, then that is rather my point. You cannot separate CHRISTIANS from the WORD...and if you do, then chances are, you are the one with the problem...not the so called "full of hate" Christians.

The verse is absolutely relevant to the topic. But *Christians* who aren't interested in what the bible has to say when they are bashing fellow *Christians* will necessarily resent introduction of the word of God into a discussion where the intent is to criticize Christians, and Christianity.

In other words, I understand why you don't want the Word introduced. I'm sorry, in a discussion about Christianity, it's going to be introduced.

I never said you couldn't talk about the Bible, or what it said. What I did say was to contribute to the discussion instead of peppering us with Scripture. Anybody can pull Scripture from the Bible. That's easy. Getting in here and discussing the issue on your own is what I am asking for.