I unironically support college debt transference

[DarkWizard12]

so let's start first by calling this what this is, not debt forgiveness(which doesn't exist) but transference. Because the burden of debt is never forgiven, but merely transferred to someone else to pick up the tab.

If the government just pays the debt, then that's all of us citizens paying the debts of these people who wanted to get fancy degrees so bad, but weren't smart enough to deal with their own money.

However, this is a relatively minor issue to work around. just because the government transfers the debt, doesn't NECESSARILY mean the debt has been transferred to the public, some of whom were not college grads and received no benefit from a degree like those who took on the debt themselves.

I was just looking at the endowment of Sam Houston University, a B-rate school in Texas, which is worth 116 million dollars, in 2020 dollars. Other schools, like Yale, get as much as 42 BILLION dollars. Since these universities are making all this money from charging so much in tuition, why not tax their endowments specifically, to fund this student debt? If their grads are having a hard time finding jobs and paying money, then that means the university failed them, and should take responsibility. Let's make university pay for student debt.

don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

 

[Hypothetical]

so let's start first by calling this what this is, not debt forgiveness(which doesn't exist) but transference. Because the burden of debt is never forgiven, but merely transferred to someone else to pick up the tab.

If the government just pays the debt, then that's all of us citizens paying the debts of these people who wanted to get fancy degrees so bad, but weren't smart enough to deal with their own money.

However, this is a relatively minor issue to work around. just because the government transfers the debt, doesn't NECESSARILY mean the debt has been transferred to the public, some of whom were not college grads and received no benefit from a degree like those who took on the debt themselves.

I was just looking at the endowment of Sam Houston University, a B-rate school in Texas, which is worth 116 million dollars, in 2020 dollars. Other schools, like Yale, get as much as 42 BILLION dollars. Since these universities are making all this money from charging so much in tuition, why not tax their endowments specifically, to fund this student debt? If their grads are having a hard time finding jobs and paying money, then that means the university failed them, and should take responsibility. Let's make university pay for student debt.

don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

well I can certainly see more merit in it than taxpayers paying for it.

 

[Mycroft]

so let's start first by calling this what this is, not debt forgiveness(which doesn't exist) but transference. Because the burden of debt is never forgiven, but merely transferred to someone else to pick up the tab.

If the government just pays the debt, then that's all of us citizens paying the debts of these people who wanted to get fancy degrees so bad, but weren't smart enough to deal with their own money.

However, this is a relatively minor issue to work around. just because the government transfers the debt, doesn't NECESSARILY mean the debt has been transferred to the public, some of whom were not college grads and received no benefit from a degree like those who took on the debt themselves.

I was just looking at the endowment of Sam Houston University, a B-rate school in Texas, which is worth 116 million dollars, in 2020 dollars. Other schools, like Yale, get as much as 42 BILLION dollars. Since these universities are making all this money from charging so much in tuition, why not tax their endowments specifically, to fund this student debt? If their grads are having a hard time finding jobs and paying money, then that means the university failed them, and should take responsibility. Let's make university pay for student debt.

don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

Eliminate the government middle man. Pass a law that requires universities to give out free degrees.

 

[ttwtt78640]

so let's start first by calling this what this is, not debt forgiveness(which doesn't exist) but transference. Because the burden of debt is never forgiven, but merely transferred to someone else to pick up the tab.

If the government just pays the debt, then that's all of us citizens paying the debts of these people who wanted to get fancy degrees so bad, but weren't smart enough to deal with their own money.

However, this is a relatively minor issue to work around. just because the government transfers the debt, doesn't NECESSARILY mean the debt has been transferred to the public, some of whom were not college grads and received no benefit from a degree like those who took on the debt themselves.

I was just looking at the endowment of Sam Houston University, a B-rate school in Texas, which is worth 116 million dollars, in 2020 dollars. Other schools, like Yale, get as much as 42 BILLION dollars. Since these universities are making all this money from charging so much in tuition, why not tax their endowments specifically, to fund this student debt? If their grads are having a hard time finding jobs and paying money, then that means the university failed them, and should take responsibility. Let's make university pay for student debt.

don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

That makes no sense at all. The school did not make that personal loan. That is as ridiculous as saying that if a customer is dissatisfied with a meal, paid for with a credit card, then the restaurant should have to pay (that portion of) their credit card bill.

 

[Jkca1]

RE: don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

Let's try this; You are responsible for paying it off any debt you create. I keep repeating we need more personal responsibility, not less However, we have a large group of people in this country that want someone else to pick up the tab for their living habits.

I would like to see all deductions removed from the income tax and in return we get one lower tax rate for all of us. I am tired of not only paying Federal tax but sate and local Govt. tax too.

 

[mrjurrs]

so let's start first by calling this what this is, not debt forgiveness(which doesn't exist) but transference. Because the burden of debt is never forgiven, but merely transferred to someone else to pick up the tab.

If the government just pays the debt, then that's all of us citizens paying the debts of these people who wanted to get fancy degrees so bad, but weren't smart enough to deal with their own money.

However, this is a relatively minor issue to work around. just because the government transfers the debt, doesn't NECESSARILY mean the debt has been transferred to the public, some of whom were not college grads and received no benefit from a degree like those who took on the debt themselves.

I was just looking at the endowment of Sam Houston University, a B-rate school in Texas, which is worth 116 million dollars, in 2020 dollars. Other schools, like Yale, get as much as 42 BILLION dollars. Since these universities are making all this money from charging so much in tuition, why not tax their endowments specifically, to fund this student debt? If their grads are having a hard time finding jobs and paying money, then that means the university failed them, and should take responsibility. Let's make university pay for student debt.

don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

Eliminating student debt would be a huge boon to our economy. It is in our national interest to have an educated populace.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Eliminating student debt would be a huge boon to our economy. It is in our national interest to have an educated populace.

The problem appears to be that a (small?) portion of that educated populous will not repay their personal debt obligations.

 

[vanceen]

Eliminating student debt would be a huge boon to our economy. It is in our national interest to have an educated populace.

Can you explain how cancelling (i.e. getting someone else to pay) the debt of people who have already graduated will give us a more educated populace?

 

[mrjurrs]

The problem appears to be that a (small?) portion of that educated populous will not repay their personal debt obligations.

The problem is that the govt gave private institutions the opportunity to profit of of these loans, and the ability to create 'educational institutions' that were never going to create jobs that would pay for those loans imo.

 

[mrjurrs]

Can you explain how cancelling (i.e. getting someone else to pay) the debt of people who have already graduated will give us a more educated populace?

Nope, but the majority of loans in default are from those that haven't or didn't graduate.

 

[vanceen]

Nope, but the majority of loans in default are from those that haven't or didn't graduate.

OK. But now they will simply have get in debt again to finish their course. I still don't see that the education level of the populace will benefit.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nope, but the majority of loans in default are from those that haven't or didn't graduate.

What does having a loan “in default” have to do with anything? What these loans have in common is simply that they have not yet been paid off and that repaying them has been ‘paused’ for over two years. As with many ‘issues’ we should be discussing a ‘spending’ bill in the House so that we can know what, exactly, is being proposed.

 

[mrjurrs]

OK. But now they will simply have get in debt again to finish their course. I still don't see that the education level of the populace will benefit.

So, get rid of public k-12 education next?

 

[mrjurrs]

What does having a loan “in default” have to do with anything? What these loans have in common is simply that they have not yet been paid off and that repaying them has been ‘paused’ for over two years. As with many ‘issues’ we should be discussing a ‘spending’ bill in the House so that we can know what, exactly, is being proposed.

Loans that have been paused are not in default.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Loans that have been paused are not in default.

Can you supply a link to why a student loan being “in default” makes any difference with Biden’s (yet to be defined) student loan ‘forgiveness’ program?

You are simply guessing what Biden and/or congress might do.

 

[mrjurrs]

Can you supply a link to why a student loan being “in default” makes any difference with Biden’s (yet to be defined) student loan ‘forgiveness’ program?

You are simply guessing what Biden and/or congress might do.

I haven't made any comments about the political moves, my statements were about student loans in general (as I recall).

 

[Cope]

so let's start first by calling this what this is, not debt forgiveness(which doesn't exist) but transference. Because the burden of debt is never forgiven, but merely transferred to someone else to pick up the tab.

If the government just pays the debt, then that's all of us citizens paying the debts of these people who wanted to get fancy degrees so bad, but weren't smart enough to deal with their own money.

However, this is a relatively minor issue to work around. just because the government transfers the debt, doesn't NECESSARILY mean the debt has been transferred to the public, some of whom were not college grads and received no benefit from a degree like those who took on the debt themselves.

I was just looking at the endowment of Sam Houston University, a B-rate school in Texas, which is worth 116 million dollars, in 2020 dollars. Other schools, like Yale, get as much as 42 BILLION dollars. Since these universities are making all this money from charging so much in tuition, why not tax their endowments specifically, to fund this student debt? If their grads are having a hard time finding jobs and paying money, then that means the university failed them, and should take responsibility. Let's make university pay for student debt.

don't make the poor man pay for your elite degree, make the universities pay.

Because it likely wouldn't be those schools that are churning out students who don't graduate, or don't graduate with degrees that afford to pay off student loans.

 

[vanceen]

So, get rid of public k-12 education next?

I have no idea how that question connects to our discussion.

I'm not for "getting rid" of any kind of education. I'm challenging your assertion that paying off existing student loans will raise the education level of the populace.

The cost of tertiary education has been inflated beyond all reason by the government's guaranteeing of student loans. I'm for undoing that so that getting an education doesn't require taking on five or more years worth of salary of debt. (It's a different subject, but I would prefer to see state universities completely tax supported, like primary and secondary school, while maintaing academic selectivity.)

The point I was making was that if you cancel loans for students who haven't finished university, if nothing else changes they will simply have to pile up a lot of debt again to graduate and add to the educational level of our professional class. How that ties into getting "rid of public k-12 education" is a mystery to me.

 

[mrjurrs]

I have no idea how that question connects to our discussion.

I'm not for "getting rid" of any kind of education. I'm challenging your assertion that paying off existing student loans will raise the education level of the populace.

The cost of tertiary education has been inflated beyond all reason by the government's guaranteeing of student loans. I'm for undoing that so that getting an education doesn't require taking on five or more years worth of salary of debt. (It's a different subject, but I would prefer to see state universities completely tax supported, like primary and secondary school, while maintaing academic selectivity.)

The point I was making was that if you cancel loans for students who haven't finished university, if nothing else changes they will simply have to pile up a lot of debt again to graduate and add to the educational level of our professional class. How that ties into getting "rid of public k-12 education" is a mystery to me.

The government pays for k-12. K-12 is no longer sufficient to compete globally. The government should pay for higher education imo. Imo, the likelihood of people returning after getting burned is lower than them taking a different path forward. Those loan balances are stopping people from moving ahead in their financial lives, and creating a system to profit off of a national interest was wrong.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The government pays for k-12. K-12 is no longer sufficient to compete globally. The government should pay for higher education imo. Imo, the likelihood of people returning after getting burned is lower than them taking a different path forward. Those loan balances are stopping people from moving ahead in their financial lives, and creating a system to profit off of a national interest was wrong.

Fine, but do so at the state government level. Education is not an enumerated federal government power.

 

[mrjurrs]

Fine, but do so at the state government level. Education is not an enumerated federal government power.

Are textbooks sold across state lines? Do schools receive federal funding? What about Brown v BOE? The line between state and federal power is too fuzzy to simply go on the plain text of the Constitution.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Are textbooks sold across state lines?

What isn’t sold across state lines?

Do schools receive federal funding?

Are there any limits on federal spending (and the associated control)?

What about Brown v BOE?

What about it? Do you think that allowed or mandated federal funding?

The line between state and federal power is too fuzzy to simply go on the plain text of the Constitution.

The 10A makes that line fairly clear.

 

[mrjurrs]

What isn’t sold across state lines?



Are there any limits on federal spending (and the associated control)?



What about it? Do you think that allowed or mandated federal funding?



The 10A makes that line fairly clear.

Hence, the federal government is involved in almost anything it wants to be (interstate commerce).

Yes, funding is limited in that localities and states are on the hook for the majority of funding, and yes the feds put restrictions on how the money they send will be used.

No, I think Brown showed the ability of the federal government to be involved in education issues on a national basis.

If the 10th is that clear, why is the Federal govt involved in education, healthcare, the Air Force, and so on.


Having been directly involved in education, imo local control of education is one of America's worst ideas ever.

 

[Cope]

Hence, the federal government is involved in almost anything it wants to be (interstate commerce).

Yes, funding is limited in that localities and states are on the hook for the majority of funding, and yes the feds put restrictions on how the money they send will be used.

No, I think Brown showed the ability of the federal government to be involved in education issues on a national basis.

If the 10th is that clear, why is the Federal govt involved in education, healthcare, the Air Force, and so on.


Having been directly involved in education, imo local control of education is one of America's worst ideas ever.

I actually would want it addressed even on a smaller scale than State. Local control is the only thing that can help failing schools. Districts with the most federal funding performing poorly is a norm in most metropolitan inner city areas.
The dumbing down of schools to teach to the lowest common denominator has been going on for decades, and now we are at a point that it affects us globally (and has for a bit). What do we do about that?
How do we make kids and their parent's responsible for their future?
Drop out rates, children having babies, kids (parent's also) not valuing education, these things are the real epidemic in this country and the federal government, Democrats, and the DOE's answer is just 'more money'. It hasn't worked and won't work until you fix the dynamic that is causing people to not care about education, to their detriment.

 

[mrjurrs]

I actually would want it addressed even on a smaller scale than State. Local control is the only thing that can help failing schools. Districts with the most federal funding performing poorly is a norm in most metropolitan inner city areas.
The dumbing down of schools to teach to the lowest common denominator has been going on for decades, and now we are at a point that it affects us globally (and has for a bit). What do we do about that?
How do we make kids and their parent's responsible for their future?
Drop out rates, children having babies, kids (parent's also) not valuing education, these things are the real epidemic in this country and the federal government, Democrats, and the DOE's answer is just 'more money'. It hasn't worked and won't work until you fix the dynamic that is causing people to not care about education, to their detriment.

Local control of public education is one of the worst ideas ever imo. When do you suppose Little Rock would have integrated their schools if left to local control. There are localities in America that want to include creationism in their science curriculum. Can you honestly imagine todays parents working for the benefit of the entire school? They can't see further than their kids interests.