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I really can't take it anymore (partisanship)

george48

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You're just blabbing now. Stop trying to prove me wrong and start getting in there and changing some minds. If you can. And I don't think you can.
Then I try again...If we just aknowleged the Trumpers beef and stopped hating on them, they might not have a defense mechanism as saying we "hate them libs" as the first turn....

No need to agree...but aknowlege that they are heard
 

george48

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Then I try again...If we just aknowleged the Trumpers beef and stopped hating on them, they might not have a defense mechanism as saying we "hate them libs" as the first turn....

No need to agree...but aknowlege that they are heard
And human too...how long would that go?
 

george48

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Then I try again...If we just aknowleged the Trumpers beef and stopped hating on them, they might not have a defense mechanism as saying we "hate them libs" as the first turn....

No need to agree...but aknowlege that they are heard
Just ask anybody
....

Not being heard is the number one
 

Mongidig

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If you want to understand Trumpism just watch the "Jonestown" documentary. Or Waco!
 

Phys251

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Then I try again...If we just aknowleged the Trumpers beef and stopped hating on them, they might not have a defense mechanism as saying we "hate them libs" as the first turn....

No need to agree...but aknowlege that they are heard
Blah blah blah blah blah. Engage them and show us how it's done. Lead by example.

If you can. :)
 

george48

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Blah blah blah blah blah. Engage them and show us how it's done. Lead by example.

If you can. :)
I'll try... But as I said in the OP:

Some might think covid is a hoax (which it obviously is not)

Are you just gonna say they are all dumb?

How about trying to UNDERSTAND?

I know it is hard to understand such idioticy


But our fellow humans are weird and complicated
 

Ethel2

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For the past year covid was blamed on Trump, he killed tens of thousands. It was political from the beginning... now we find out how negligent Cuomo is.
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
But when you are the President the buck stops with you (in terms of our response to the pandemic).
And our response unquestionably sucked
 

Luther

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My fellow humans! I appeal to you.

We may have differences on politics and policy...sure...that is what debate is all about...really good...but even on covid (though it ain't a hoax) is debated...(again...very real) (Who would think that once the US passed 500000 deaths it could be a hoax?)

But some of our fellow humans think it a hoax and we need to speak to them...withouht the supposed higher self... (but reason)!

I just can not help but notice the desire for "take-downs" and political partisan attacks and PERSONAL attacks...

Again...I get that disagreements are important...hell do I have lot with the maga cult and the morons of the uber-wokists...

Covid is very real...but my talking down to them you will NEVER get there

But I guess what I am saying is we should never loose a sense of a common humanity....

People have different Life experiences... they arrive at conclusions that may seem foreign to you...but they are very real tp our fellow brothers and sisters...

So don't dissmis people....

Covid is very real...but others are not so sure....because of many reasons....(again we need not to understand them fully)
..

I do not think we should push them away but embrace the differences and than obviously try to convince them
(Who would think that once the US passed 500000 deaths it could be a hoax?)

Thee were inflated numbers George

Jut think George, there is around 2 1/2 Million Americans who die normally every single year pre- COVID

Kinda dwarfs your inflated 500,000 number
 

Torus34

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If you want to understand Trumpism just watch the "Jonestown" documentary. Or Waco!
Hi!

There may be superficial similarities, but such comparisons don't really lead to a deep understanding of the phenomena engendered by the presidency of Mr. Donald Trump.

Step 1, as I see it, is to view those who are adamantly pro-Trump as a part of the whole of our American society. That helps to avoid the 'we' vs. 'them' frame, with its associated emotional baggage. The loyal followers of Mr. Trump are loyal because they are higher on certain scales of measurement than the rest. This includes tolerance for an authority figure, a sense that the society is not serving their interests as it should and, perhaps, a seeking for a return to a better time. [MAGA].

One problem which obtains in discussions with Mr. Trump's followers is that the simple compilation of facts is not going to produce an epiphany for them. That facts don't matter is shown by the large number of 'alternate facts' that Mr. Trump espoused. His followers are not given to fact checking. The source of the information is more important than the information. I could continue, but I think that is a clear enough picture for now.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 

joko104

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If you were paid $10,000 each time you posted "Covid-19 is a hoax" - would you? How many times would you? 10 times and you have $100,000. 100 times and you're a millionaire.

Clearly, you believe not one person would post such messages for the money, right? Not one person would lie for a million dollars. No human ever says anything false even for profit because lying is genetically impossible for homo sapiens. That is your belief, isn't it?
 

Ethel2

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Thee were inflated numbers George

Jut think George, there is around 2 1/2 Million Americans who die normally every single year pre- COVID

Kinda dwarfs your inflated 500,000 number
Do you have proof that these are inflated numbers? Or did you just make that up based on erroneous assumptions-because everything I read indicates that these numbers are probably unrealistically LOW (as are case numbers). This is the kind of post that I was referring to with my first response to this thread: we can discuss conservative v liberal politics but reality is not up for debate.
 

george48

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Thank you for all your responses...

I just think this toxic hatred of all others is...Well toxic...

Obviously disagreements are great...heck...that is what the forum is all about...Disagreements again are fine...I sure have them with the uber-woke leftists and also the trump cultists... And my personal philosophy is also not leftist at all...I disagree with leftist economic policy for example and uber-woke crap like banning shakespeare from the classroom or renaming schools named after lincoln...

But I think all of us sometimes lose site of the common humanity of everybody...And also lose sight of the fact that people are weird and complicated...

Btw...I was referring to the trump cult... not in any way all Trump voters...so I should not have said 30 to 45 percent...

The Trump cult, the hard core devotees who are in a cult, are a much smaller number...

And also disagreeing with certain policy that might very well infringe on personal liberties in regards to covid is also totally fine (I think you need to strike the balance between infringements on personal liberty and fighting covid so a debate about how much and how far is VERY important)...I was referring to outright denial...often conflated by the media...but very differnet indeed...

But my point stands...Talk to them without hatred... you will not convince everybody...but not nobody
 

screenwriter

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My fellow humans! I appeal to you.

We may have differences on politics and policy...sure...that is what debate is all about...really good...but even on covid (though it ain't a hoax) is debated...(again...very real) (Who would think that once the US passed 500000 deaths it could be a hoax?)

But some of our fellow humans think it a hoax and we need to speak to them...withouht the supposed higher self... (but reason)!

I just can not help but notice the desire for "take-downs" and political partisan attacks and PERSONAL attacks...

Again...I get that disagreements are important...hell do I have lot with the maga cult and the morons of the uber-wokists...

Covid is very real...but my talking down to them you will NEVER get there

But I guess what I am saying is we should never loose a sense of a common humanity....

People have different Life experiences... they arrive at conclusions that may seem foreign to you...but they are very real tp our fellow brothers and sisters...

So don't dissmis people....

Covid is very real...but others are not so sure....because of many reasons....(again we need not to understand them fully)
..

I do not think we should push them away but embrace the differences and than obviously try to convince them
So by calling people " cultist" you think you are part of some solution?
 

george48

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So by calling people " cultist" you think you are part of some solution?
I am sorry if I did not make it clearer that I was referring to the hard core Trump base...NOT at all, all Trump voters...I am sorry for the confusion...Those who have cultish devotion to Trump, not all conservatives AT ALL...heck...not even all trump voters at all...I mean the hard core, "no matter what, he is the greatest person ever", people.
 

george48

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I agree in so far as Flat eathers aren't 30 to 45 percent ...
I should clarify that too...Trumpers, who I should have called hard core Trump voters, are like 45 percent of republicans, not the entire population...Those where the ones I was referring to as being in a cult...not at all everybody who voted for Trump...There is a also a leftist cult btw...And also, this leftist cult is also a minority of the left...I am talking about the ones that I (and the washington post) would call the uber-woke... the ones who wanna ban Shakespeare in the classroom and rename schools named after Lincoln...

I should have been clearer...sorry
 

george48

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One more thing I'd like to add: Some, far from all, on the left have the tendency, to say all those they disagree wit are dumb evil or wrong. It is entirely possible, that republicans are right on certain issues or that you align with their philosophy...Heck I would say I agree wit both the left and the right on certain issues...And also the uber-woke on the left behave very cultish too as I mentioned earlier...Also a minority...So I wanna make sure I am as clear as possible...I am not saying at all that all Trump voters, let alone all republicans are cultists...

I was talking about the very unfortunate development that a significant chunk of Trump voters seem to have fallen victim to a cult mentality...

And my point was that by being empathatic and kind, however hard that might be, I think it is possible to get people out of this cult mentality where Trump is infallible... (now disagreements are fine and very important... dehumanising people is very bad though...)

Cos the number one thing I always hear from them is this: They hate me anyway. Hate and not understanding the humanity of people gets you nowhere...
 
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george48

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What you are asking Americans to do is to abandon the very basic, current, foundation of American politics wherein anyone who differs from you is **E*V*I*L** and must be destroyed.
Sorry...I misread your post earlier...yes...that is EXACTLEY what I am asking.
 

Ethel2

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Sorry...I misread your post earlier...yes...that is EXACTLEY what I am asking.
For my part I don’t hate republicans or many parts of their conservative beliefs. I hate our jackass ex president because he is a consummate liar and is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
The issues we can debate and hopefully reach a middle ground eventually-as long as the jackass is either dead or never heard from again.
 

george48

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Nobody denies Covid is real. The question was always about how much freedom to sacrifice for the sake of some sense of safety.
Look...I agree that the media and others have conflated being against certain policy to adrees covid with saying it ain't real... I was not doing that here...And I am not talking about those who disagree with certain policies...heck I am not in agreement with all policies too...I was talking about deniers...

Also, in other posts, I was never talking talking about all trump voters, but about the maga cult...maybe I should not have said trumpers...ok...But what I mean by that is the people who have seemingly unshakeable loyalty and devotion to the man...I was never talking about all trump voters...But this sizable chunk...
 

george48

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So I also agree with those of you who said reality is not up for debate...yes...But policy one can and should debate about...I very much agree...My larger point though also was that in all disagreements, wether sensible or with insane positions, one should ALWAYS be respectful of the other persons humanity...

Especially with people in a cult or those who just think all that disagree are evil it is important to be kind and stop this destructive cycle of hate. I very much wanna emphazise again that I don't mena that all Trump voters are cultists...Obvioiuly not...Normal people, who disagree with abortion voted for him...

What I was talking about was the maga cult...those who seem to have unshakeable loyalty to him...A cult of personality which unfortunately is a sizable chunk of trump voters...but of course far from all...

And my point was that especially to conspiracy theorits on covid or other stuff it is important not to be condecending out of hand but treat them with kindness... Now of course one should disagree forcefully but not deny the humanity of people... If the trump cult (again far from all of those who voted for him) already believes that "liberals" hate them and wants to destroy their lives how about a little kindness?

Policy debate is great. Some stuff is not up for debate and inhumane stuff needs to be condemnd...strongly...like the horrible stuff Marjery TG said...But I also do not think kindness for people is up for debate either...
 

george48

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For my part I don’t hate republicans or many parts of their conservative beliefs. I hate our jackass ex president because he is a consummate liar and is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
The issues we can debate and hopefully reach a middle ground eventually-as long as the jackass is either dead or never heard from again.
I really, really do not think you should wish for peoples death...Kinda also the point I am trying to make... having disagreements with people, even strong ones? sure... But human beings deserve dignity and to be treated with humanity. Nobody deserves exemption from critique but not without respecting the human dignity of people...so I really, really don't think one should wish for somebodys death...

As Majid Nawaz once said: No idea is above scrutiny and no human below dignity... I think that is a nice sentiment to live by...
 

Integrityrespec

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My fellow humans! I appeal to you.

We may have differences on politics and policy...sure...that is what debate is all about...really good...but even on covid (though it ain't a hoax) is debated...(again...very real) (Who would think that once the US passed 500000 deaths it could be a hoax?)

But some of our fellow humans think it a hoax and we need to speak to them...withouht the supposed higher self... (but reason)!

I just can not help but notice the desire for "take-downs" and political partisan attacks and PERSONAL attacks...

Again...I get that disagreements are important...hell do I have lot with the maga cult and the morons of the uber-wokists...

Covid is very real...but my talking down to them you will NEVER get there

But I guess what I am saying is we should never loose a sense of a common humanity....

People have different Life experiences... they arrive at conclusions that may seem foreign to you...but they are very real tp our fellow brothers and sisters...

So don't dissmis people....

Covid is very real...but others are not so sure....because of many reasons....(again we need not to understand them fully)
..

I do not think we should push them away but embrace the differences and than obviously try to convince them
Have you seen the numbers this year for influenza, or heart failure, or stroke, or cancer? Have you noticed those are down? It's because if you were within a mile of Covid and died they count you as a Covid death.
 

Integrityrespec

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Well, it's true that attacking them only makes them burrow in deeper; that's human nature. I think all we can do is keep laying out the facts and stay neutral when they come up with an "alternative" theory from the deep hole of suspicion they huddle in.
Nuetral, hardly so. You buy in to the exaggeration of Covid deaths.
 

Ethel2

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I really, really do not think you should wish for peoples death...Kinda also the point I am trying to make... having disagreements with people, even strong ones? sure... But human beings deserve dignity and to be treated with humanity. Nobody deserves exemption from critique but not without respecting the human dignity of people...so I really, really don't think one should wish for somebodys death...

As Majid Nawaz once said: No idea is above scrutiny and no human below dignity... I think that is a nice sentiment to live by...
I didn’t say I hope he dies. But i do think the world would be a better place without him in it-and I think progress would be easier
 
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