"I, Racist" & some gaps in the thinking

I've seen this article in various places recently, and it's very thought provoking. He makes many great points. But, after reading it and pondering it, two things scream out to me that I think are worthy of discussion.

Read the article first, then read my response, and contribute if you desire.

I, Racist

I, Racist | John Metta

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#1) Us vs them...

Quote from article:
Black people think in terms of we because we live in a society where the social and political structures interact with us as Black people.

White people do not think in terms of we. White people have the privilege to interact with the social and political structures of our society as individuals. You are "you," I am "one of them."

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Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that. One can possibly say it's rooted in the past, and I'm sure there's truth to that, but this is just it, the past is gone. It's not changing and it's not coming back.

Thinking individually is not "privilege", it's a mindset choice. As I think about it, people who place themselves and their own individual well-being at some level of primary importance tend to do better than those who don't.

And let's not gloss over the fact that the author does exactly what he criticizes others for doing. By criticizing whites for being "you are you", IOW 'you are not part of us', he has negatively categorized whites as "them". I guess it's all a matter of perspective, which weakens his overall point.

Which, as I said, ties into...

#2) What are you going to do about it?
Legitimately. Constructively. A common theme in these discussions is that they all come off as a one-way street. It's always some variation of "blame whitey". What is pretty much universally lacking from these discussions is what black people are going to do about it. And I mean in a constructive legitimate sense.

Am I saying that whites and/or others are blameless? Phfft, no, not by a long shot. There's a great deal that white society can and should do to make things better. But, whether individually and/or collectively, there has to be something that black people feel they can contribute to their own legitimate positive advancement, as well. Problem is, I'm not hearing that from anywhere in the black community. Not by my black friends or from my white-liberal-guilt-progressive friends, either. I'm not really interested in what white people think on this aspect, I want to hear black people promote some ideas that will cause black people to prosper.

Maybe people are "wrapped up" in "victimhood" because they're being victimized.

Paschendale said:

Maybe people are "wrapped up" in "victimhood" because they're being victimized.

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When you make an art out of playing the victim you become one.

radcen said:

I've seen this article in various places recently, and it's very thought provoking. He makes many great points. But, after reading it and pondering it, two things scream out to me that I think are worthy of discussion.

Read the article first, then read my response, and contribute if you desire.


#1) Us vs them...

Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that. One can possibly say it's rooted in the past, and I'm sure there's truth to that, but this is just it, the past is gone. It's not changing and it's not coming back.

Thinking individually is not "privilege", it's a mindset choice. As I think about it, people who place themselves and their own individual well-being at some level of primary importance tend to do better than those who don't.

And let's not gloss over the fact that the author does exactly what he criticizes others for doing. By criticizing whites for being "you are you", IOW 'you are not part of us', he has negatively categorized whites as "them". I guess it's all a matter of perspective, which weakens his overall point.

Which, as I said, ties into...

#2) What are you going to do about it?
Legitimately. Constructively. A common theme in these discussions is that they all come off as a one-way street. It's always some variation of "blame whitey". What is pretty much universally lacking from these discussions is what black people are going to do about it. And I mean in a constructive legitimate sense.

Am I saying that whites and/or others are blameless? Phfft, no, not by a long shot. There's a great deal that white society can and should do to make things better. But, whether individually and/or collectively, there has to be something that black people feel they can contribute to their own legitimate positive advancement, as well. Problem is, I'm not hearing that from anywhere in the black community. Not by my black friends or from my white-liberal-guilt-progressive friends, either. I'm not really interested in what white people think on this aspect, I want to hear black people promote some ideas that will cause black people to prosper.

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What can white society do? First off, shun racists. I mean, truly shun racists, even when they use dog-whistle codes that one can claim isn't racist in nature when any rational reader knows it is.

A great example is Rick Santorum's "blah people" gaffe back in the 2012 election cycle. He later claimed he wasn't referring to blacks, but to "blah people"...but we all knew better. What was crucial, though, was that even after he said that, he was not at all shunned by the GOP, but was basically given a pass, and was still getting millions of Republican votes, coming in second only to Romney...

...and every black person who watch this knew that many of those who were voting for Santorum were doing so knowing that he was likely a racist...and that his support was especially strong in the South where racism itself is still strong.

So long as a major proportion of white society supports such people in the ballot box, the blacks will remember how many hate them not for the content of their character, but for the color of their skin.

Glen Contrarian said:

blacks will remember how many hate them not for the content of their character, but for the color of their skin.

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and this number is absolutely dwarfed by the number who automatically defend them, not for the content of their character but the color of their skin.

We can only evolve into a color blind society if people actually DO judge each other on the content of their character.

I believe there is white victimhood. It's summed up in your phrase that white people see the conversation in terms of blame whitey. All white people do not deserve blame. The only white people who deserve to be singled out in these type of discussions are whites who are prejudice and racist, because they are, well, part of the racial problem in the USA. All white people are not responsible for idiot white people. Seeing yourself as an individual involves seeing yourself as a member of society, not a member of the white race.

I have seen white people get defensive or sensitive about their skin color, and then get pissed at black people for doing the same.

radcen said:

I've seen this article in various places recently, and it's very thought provoking. He makes many great points. But, after reading it and pondering it, two things scream out to me that I think are worthy of discussion.

Read the article first, then read my response, and contribute if you desire.


#1) Us vs them...

Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that. One can possibly say it's rooted in the past, and I'm sure there's truth to that, but this is just it, the past is gone. It's not changing and it's not coming back.

Thinking individually is not "privilege", it's a mindset choice. As I think about it, people who place themselves and their own individual well-being at some level of primary importance tend to do better than those who don't.

And let's not gloss over the fact that the author does exactly what he criticizes others for doing. By criticizing whites for being "you are you", IOW 'you are not part of us', he has negatively categorized whites as "them". I guess it's all a matter of perspective, which weakens his overall point.

Which, as I said, ties into...

#2) What are you going to do about it?
Legitimately. Constructively. A common theme in these discussions is that they all come off as a one-way street. It's always some variation of "blame whitey". What is pretty much universally lacking from these discussions is what black people are going to do about it. And I mean in a constructive legitimate sense.

Am I saying that whites and/or others are blameless? Phfft, no, not by a long shot. There's a great deal that white society can and should do to make things better. But, whether individually and/or collectively, there has to be something that black people feel they can contribute to their own legitimate positive advancement, as well. Problem is, I'm not hearing that from anywhere in the black community. Not by my black friends or from my white-liberal-guilt-progressive friends, either. I'm not really interested in what white people think on this aspect, I want to hear black people promote some ideas that will cause black people to prosper.

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blaxshep said:

When you make an art out of playing the victim you become one.

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Yeah, see, 'cause them black people, y'see, they all gets together an' teaches each other the ART of playing a victim. They ain't victims, y'see, 'cause the racism they face ain't as bad as that faced by anyone else, y'see. Even when the popularly-elected state government of Mississippi waited till 2013 to ratify the 13th Amendment, that wasn't racism involved in any of that, 'course not! It was just an 'administrative oversight' that took about 130 years or so, y'see...and it was prob'bly one-a-them black people in the state guv'mint who was keepin' that particular bill hid from the state congressmen for the whole 130 years, mm-hmm....

Gardener said:

and this number is absolutely dwarfed by the number who automatically defend them, not for the content of their character but the color of their skin.

We can only evolve into a color blind society if people actually DO judge each other on the content of their character.

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If your first sentence was true, then it wouldn't have taken 130-odd years for Mississippi to ratify the 13th Amendment. If your first sentence was true, it wouldn't have taken until 2013 for Wilcox, GA to stop having segregated proms. I grew up racist, in a racist family in a racist society...and unless you yourself have been (or are) a racist, chances are really good that I know the racist community better than you...

...and the idea of a 'color-blind' society is a pipe dream, for humans have this habit of automatically being at least to some extent suspicious of those who look, think, worship, or act like themselves. It's all prejudice - racism is merely a subset of prejudice, as is religious intolerance like Islamophobia, intolerance of LGBT's, intolerance of those who speak with a different accent, and so on.

The prejudice will always be there to some extent...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it as hard as we can.

Glen Contrarian said:

Yeah, see, 'cause them black people, y'see, they all gets together an' teaches each other the ART of playing a victim.

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That is what the author of the OP article suggests:


Of course, he may not be correct in generalising a few anecdotal examples onto an entire race...

radcen said:

I've seen this article in various places recently, and it's very thought provoking. He makes many great points. But, after reading it and pondering it, two things scream out to me that I think are worthy of discussion.

Read the article first, then read my response, and contribute if you desire.


#1) Us vs them...

Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that. One can possibly say it's rooted in the past, and I'm sure there's truth to that, but this is just it, the past is gone. It's not changing and it's not coming back.

Thinking individually is not "privilege", it's a mindset choice. As I think about it, people who place themselves and their own individual well-being at some level of primary importance tend to do better than those who don't.

And let's not gloss over the fact that the author does exactly what he criticizes others for doing. By criticizing whites for being "you are you", IOW 'you are not part of us', he has negatively categorized whites as "them". I guess it's all a matter of perspective, which weakens his overall point.

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You are doing the very same thing. By buying into the "Blacks think collectively; Whites think individually" you are doing the exact same thing - coming to conclusions about how people think based on their race

Mithrae said:

That is what the author of the OP article suggests:

That is racism. Once you let yourself see it, it's there all the time.

Black children learn this when their parents give them "The Talk." When they are sat down at the age of five or so and told that their best friend's father is not sick, and not in a bad mood- he just doesn't want his son playing with you. Black children grow up early to life in The Matrix. We're not given a choice of the red or blue pill. Most white people, like my aunt, never have to choose. The system was made for White people, so White people don't have to think about living in it.​

Of course, he may not be correct in generalising a few anecdotal examples onto an entire race...

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And you and he might have a point if the racism wasn't actually there, and if the racism wasn't having a direct and personal effect on their lives.

I would say that the ones who are trapped in the "Matrix" are the ones who think that there is no racism, and those who think that the racism blacks face is no worse than that faced by anyone else.

sangha said:

You are doing the very same thing. By buying into the "Blacks think collectively; Whites think individually" you are doing the exact same thing - coming to conclusions about how people think based on their race

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1) The author made the point. The author is black.

2) Phrases, by blacks about blacks, such as "Uncle Tom" and "Oreo" are commonly thrown around to disparage other blacks who dare to stray from 'approved' thinking is common. Does this (#2) not at least suggest that collectivism is almost desired to some extent?

Glen Contrarian said:

And you and he might have a point if the racism wasn't actually there, and if the racism wasn't having a direct and personal effect on their lives.

I would say that the ones who are trapped in the "Matrix" are the ones who think that there is no racism, and those who think that the racism blacks face is no worse than that faced by anyone else.

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I don't think anyone here has said that there is no racism. You've posted some good examples. But the article author's perspective doesn't seem to be particularly constructive. Quite the opposite. Rather than suggesting, for example, an end to implicitly or explicitly discriminatory practices such as excessive enforcement and punishment of drugs laws or affirmative action policies, or encouraging black parents to reinforce values of individualism in their children - and colour blindness for all people - the author's entire thesis seems to be that all white Americans are complicit in a racist system and black people are powerless to change it! Admittedly speaking as an outsider, I'd have to say that neither of those seems to be a very useful message.

radcen said:

1) The author made the point. The author is black.

2) Phrases, by blacks about blacks, such as "Uncle Tom" and "Oreo" are commonly thrown around to disparage other blacks who dare to stray from 'approved' thinking is common. Does this (#2) not at least suggest that collectivism is almost desired to some extent?

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Ask wrong questions and you get wrong answers. Collectivism is not a thing of desire, it's often enough a dire necessity caused by the society you and yours live in and the place it has reserved for you and yours within. That "reservation" does not necessarily require force, a past history of having applied it however will serve for subtler methods.

radcen said:

1) The author made the point. The author is black.

2) Phrases, by blacks about blacks, such as "Uncle Tom" and "Oreo" are commonly thrown around to disparage other blacks who dare to stray from 'approved' thinking is common. Does this (#2) not at least suggest that collectivism is almost desired to some extent?

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1) And you said something similar ("Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that")

2) No, those phrases are not common. I cannot remember the last time I heard a black person use one of those two phrases. A more common criticism you'll hear about blacks from other blacks is that someone is "too ghetto"

radcen said:

I've seen this article in various places recently, and it's very thought provoking. He makes many great points. But, after reading it and pondering it, two things scream out to me that I think are worthy of discussion.

Read the article first, then read my response, and contribute if you desire.


#1) Us vs them...

Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that. One can possibly say it's rooted in the past, and I'm sure there's truth to that, but this is just it, the past is gone. It's not changing and it's not coming back.

Thinking individually is not "privilege", it's a mindset choice. As I think about it, people who place themselves and their own individual well-being at some level of primary importance tend to do better than those who don't.

And let's not gloss over the fact that the author does exactly what he criticizes others for doing. By criticizing whites for being "you are you", IOW 'you are not part of us', he has negatively categorized whites as "them". I guess it's all a matter of perspective, which weakens his overall point.

Which, as I said, ties into...

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I read that article.

Wish I hadn't.


This pissed me off...

This, all of this, expectation, treatment, thought, the underlying social system that puts White in the position of Normal and good, and Black in the position of "other" and "bad," all of this, is racism.

And White people, every single one of you, are complicit in this racism because you benefit directly from it.

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Many dramatic overstatements or hyperbole like this had me shaking my head...

People are dying because we are supporting a racist system that justifies White people killing Black people.

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I'll be honest, reading that article didn't fill me with warm fuzzies about race relations. More like bleak despair vying with self-defensive indifference.

#2) What are you going to do about it?
Legitimately. Constructively. A common theme in these discussions is that they all come off as a one-way street. It's always some variation of "blame whitey". What is pretty much universally lacking from these discussions is what black people are going to do about it. And I mean in a constructive legitimate sense.

Am I saying that whites and/or others are blameless? Phfft, no, not by a long shot. There's a great deal that white society can and should do to make things better. But, whether individually and/or collectively, there has to be something that black people feel they can contribute to their own legitimate positive advancement, as well. Problem is, I'm not hearing that from anywhere in the black community. Not by my black friends or from my white-liberal-guilt-progressive friends, either. I'm not really interested in what white people think on this aspect, I want to hear black people promote some ideas that will cause black people to prosper.

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Thank you for asking that question. By the end of the article I DESPERATELY wanted to corner the author and scream that question at him. "Ok so WHAT do you WANT??"

Black children grow up early to life in The Matrix. We're not given a choice of the red or blue pill. Most white people, like my aunt, never have to choose. The system was made for White people, so White people don't have to think about living in it.

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Ok, "the system" was made for white people, so we don't think about it, while it oppresses black people as "other".

OK, Mr John Metta, pray tell WHAT kind of system would black folks design and implement that wasn't "made for white people"? How would it differ? And if it was made for black people, how would white people fare within it? I'mma guess not so well?


So what's the fracking answer?? Is it so hopeless, as the article sounds, that the only answer is a separate system for each race? Shall we take a page from Louis Farrakhan and give one state over to black folks to be remade and set up and governed and run according to their preferences and needs?

It's starting to sound like that is the only answer, at least for people who think like Mr. Metta. That, or eternal victimhood.


If he thinks THAT is the kind of "conversation about race" that's going to change things positively somehow, I got bad news for him... the only effects it had on me were entirely negative.

Glen Contrarian said:

What can white society do? First off, shun racists. I mean, truly shun racists, even when they use dog-whistle codes that one can claim isn't racist in nature when any rational reader knows it is.

A great example is Rick Santorum's "blah people" gaffe back in the 2012 election cycle. He later claimed he wasn't referring to blacks, but to "blah people"...but we all knew better. What was crucial, though, was that even after he said that, he was not at all shunned by the GOP, but was basically given a pass, and was still getting millions of Republican votes, coming in second only to Romney...

...and every black person who watch this knew that many of those who were voting for Santorum were doing so knowing that he was likely a racist...and that his support was especially strong in the South where racism itself is still strong.

So long as a major proportion of white society supports such people in the ballot box, the blacks will remember how many hate them not for the content of their character, but for the color of their skin.

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Sure, Santorum wasn't shunned and wound up finishing second... without a job. Meanwhile people like Harry Reid and Joe Biden slip up just as bad and reveal their true colors and not only do they get the same free pass, they wind up as Senate majority leader and Vice President.:roll:

Something happened yesterday, I want to talk about it. It bothers me.


It's been a tough week. I spent almost all day dealing with the fracked up bureaucracy of this system supposedly made for white people and I was a tired, frustrated man. Son#1 and I ended up having to run to the UPS center at 730pm on the other side of town to pick up an important package.

Well we got there and like most UPS centers it was a madhouse. There was a small parking section in front of the little customer service office... and all parking spots were taken. In point of fact there would have been one to spare except someone had parked their little car square in the middle of two spaces, right on the line... no question it was on purpose. To save time (and because the office was likely to close shortly) S#1 dropped me off and circled around, having to park some distance away.

When I went inside, there were a few people there: One white man, about my age, with two kids. One young black man, big guy about S#1's size. Two young black women. I figured one of them was the double-parking culprit, but had no idea which.

Normally I am a discrete person who tries to live in peace and avoid trouble. Normally I'm good at keeping my mouth shut about things that I can't really do anything about. Once in a while, under sufficient stress, I get to the point where I don't give a **** anymore and I'm going to call some douchebag on their BS and let the chips fall where they may.

This was such a day.

Son#1 came in while I was waiting in the s-l-o-w line, and said he'd had to park some distance away. With deliberate loudness in the small waiting area, I asked "Is that idiot who was taking up two parking spaces still out there?" S#1 looked at me uncomfortably (he's seen me get like this before) and said, quietly, "Um, yeah..."

I went on to loudly proclaim my disgust for anyone so rude and thoughtless as to take up two spaces in a small parking lot, and awaited the fireworks with glee. I was itching to give someone a piece of my mind and didn't care who it was or if they liked it or not.

Well I didn't have to wait more than a second before one of the black girls piped up and said "What car you talking about?"
I described it.
She said "That's MY car!"

I smiled and said, "Well, ok then."

She got indignant. "You can't call me an idiot!" I asked her what SHE called people who did stupid things like double park in a tiny lot. She spluttered and ranted for a minute, and I asked her why she thought she could park like that.

"Because I CAN," she said haughtily, sticking her nose in the air.
I said it's illegal. She went off and ranted and raved some more. I grinned at her which made her even madder. The woman behind the counter was panicking at this point and asking us to calm down, so I dropped it.

As the black gal's friend joined her to leave, she looked at me and said "Never mind, girl, somebody just trippin' 'cuz you Black and Proud."

I said "What does Black and Proud have to do with taking up two spaces in a tiny lot? Besides I didn't know WHO it was when I spoke up." But they were going out and didn't hear me or didn't reply.

Well everybody else heaved a sigh of relief that it was over and went back to getting packages.



Me, I stood there trying to puzzle out this encounter. When I'd first spoken up, I had no knowledge of whose car it was.... could have been the middle aged white guy, could have been the tall young black man, for all I knew; I hadn't known and didn't CARE, I just wanted to give whichever douche it was a piece of my mind. There was nothing RACIAL in my aggravation or my speaking out... I was angry because SOME douchebag had double-parked in a tiny lot, and aimed to have it out with them WHOEVER it was.

And I STILL have no idea why double parking has anything to do with being Black and Proud. If everybody did it, half the people wouldn't have a parking place...



But the thing that burns me is that someone who thinks like the author of the original article, like the two black gals in the store, would find some way to call this little confrontation an example of white racism and blame it all on whitey... perhaps because it is racist to even HAVE laws about parking, or parking spaces, or something maybe how the hell should I know.... and I'm now wondering why I should care...

That is black privilege. Do anything you want no matter how inconsiderate and if anyone calls you on it they are a racist.

blaxshep said:

That is black privilege. Do anything you want no matter how inconsiderate and if anyone calls you on it they are a racist.

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Well, I've run into that sort of thing before, I have to say. I'm not saying most black folks are like that, most are NOT, but there's enough of that attitude around to kind of kill my sympathy for any "victimhood" they might claim. Just because Great-Grammy had to ride on the back of the bus doesn't mean you can double park in busy parking lot, dammit.

I've called out white people for it before also, and some of them got irate too, but at least they didn't try to make it some kind of White Pride thing.

Goshin said:

Something happened yesterday, I want to talk about it. It bothers me.

.

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I have seen the same thing and there is always going to be that segment to play the race card. Through the rest of our lives we will live with that segment of the population.

But you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

I remember a friend of mine who was in the Army some 40 yrs ago and one Saturday while he was standing in line at the chow hall a smaller black soldier just cut in line right in front of him. My friend unfortunately blurted out the first thing that entered his mine and yelled." Hey you little n****r get back in line." Well, immediately the black soldier looked over at a nearby table that sat a black soldier around 6'4" and ran up to him and said, "Did you hear he called me a n****r?".
My friend just thought well here we go now.
But instead the larger black soldier just looked up at the smaller black soldier and simply said, "Well, maybe you are a little n****r" and went back to eating his lunch. The smaller black soldier just marched off.

Like I said, you just can't paint everyone with the same brush.

Crosscheck said:

I have seen the same thing and there is always going to be that segment to play the race card. Through the rest of our lives we will live with that segment of the population.

But you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

I remember a friend of mine who was in the Army some 40 yrs ago and one Saturday while he was standing in line at the chow hall a smaller black soldier just cut in line right in front of him. My friend unfortunately blurted out the first thing that entered his mine and yelled." Hey you little n****r get back in line." Well, immediately the black soldier looked over at a nearby table that sat a black soldier around 6'4" and ran up to him and said, "Did you hear he called me a n****r?".
My friend just thought well here we go now.
But instead the larger black soldier just looked up at the smaller black soldier and simply said, "Well, maybe you are a little n****r" and went back to eating his lunch. The smaller black soldier just marched off.

Like I said, you just can't paint everyone with the same brush.

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I'm not painting everyone with that brush. Most black folks I've known weren't like that.


But I have run into that attitude often enough that I think it is a real problem. It damn sure doesn't help "race relations" one little bit.

sangha said:

1) And you said something similar ("Maybe that's part of the problem. Black people are too wrapped up in the collective victimhood (which ties into point #2, later) and fail to see themselves beyond that")

2) No, those phrases are not common. I cannot remember the last time I heard a black person use one of those two phrases. A more common criticism you'll hear about blacks from other blacks is that someone is "too ghetto"

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1) I said "maybe". It was an opening for discussion as a possibility.

2) You need to be more observant of your surroundings, then. If you're that sheltered we have nothing to discuss. Good day.

radcen said:

1) I said "maybe". It was an opening for discussion as a possibility.

2) You need to be more observant of your surroundings, then. If you're that sheltered we have nothing to discuss. Good day.

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1) Your "maybe" referred to whether it was part of the problem. There was no maybe when it came to the part about how black people think

2) I am not at all surprised to see the personal attack. It's what people do when they run out of arguments.

Goshin said:

Well, I've run into that sort of thing before, I have to say. I'm not saying most black folks are like that, most are NOT, but there's enough of that attitude around to kind of kill my sympathy for any "victimhood" they might claim. Just because Great-Grammy had to ride on the back of the bus doesn't mean you can double park in busy parking lot, dammit.

I've called out white people for it before also, and some of them got irate too, but at least they didn't try to make it some kind of White Pride thing.

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Why didn't you park behind their car so they would have to wait for you to be done so they could move? I probably would have done that.