I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms.

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

At this point, calamity, I suggest you walk away from trying to convince ideologues. Would be like convincing a christian than Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Would be like convincing an atheist that a god(s) created the world. Walk away from your fruitless discussions.

On a sidenote: I think SCOTUS, using the first amendment as a guide, should ban religion and ideology from government. Both religion and ideology come at people with extremely and perpetually closed minds.

Actually, calamity should walk away because he has chosen to be willfully ignorant due to not wanting to abandon his invalid agenda.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

So, people who were entering these places illegally or under the pretense of doing work are not now going to enter disguised as transwomen?

Get real.

Why would they? They are going to get more scrutiny from people if they enter dressed as a woman, but people can tell they weren't born one, than if they entered under the pretense of doing work (which is done when no one is in there to question them), or illegally (which is generally done in a way not to garner attention). If they could pass as a woman anyway then it doesn't matter because they could use that to enter with or without laws that prevent men from entering.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

I stated in a post replying to MQ prior to you sticking your nose into the middle of the conversation the following: (paraphrasing) Lots of women have had experiences with sexual predators. Voyeurs or exhibitionists, if they are lucky; rapists and serial killers, if not.

Most people that come across exhibitionists are not targeted and not harmed. Many times it's like the situation where some prude sees someone naked on their own property and claims the guy is exposing himself, or even sees someone peeing outdoors and they are exposing themselves.

Most rapists are known to the person. Most serial rapist have a certain type of women they rape, and they aren't going to randomly enter a public restroom or changing room or locker room, with a very high risk of getting caught, to feed their need.

Despite what some sites suggest, few women are ever raped. An extremely small number of women are raped by a stranger.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Most people that come across exhibitionists are not targeted and not harmed. Many times it's like the situation where some prude sees someone naked on their own property and claims the guy is exposing himself, or even sees someone peeing outdoors and they are exposing themselves.

Most rapists are known to the person. Most serial rapist have a certain type of women they rape, and they aren't going to randomly enter a public restroom or changing room or locker room, with a very high risk of getting caught, to feed their need.

Despite what some sites suggest, few women are ever raped. An extremely small number of women are raped by a stranger.

You appear to be rather naive. There is one consistency about sexual predators. They use any opportunity made available to them to gain access to victims. This bathroom "pretend to be a transwoman" thing is just one more such opportunity.

 

[cabse5]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

But if you ban ideology from government, that includes the ideology of compromise and America first.

Ban present day ideology the majority of which is divisive.

 

[maquiscat]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Ban present day ideology the majority of which is divisive.

Amazing how those two little words completely change the meaning of the sentence.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

I take research that is methodologically sound and repeatable as gospel. I ignore research that isn't. Of course, since you haven't posted any research, I don't take your positions seriously at all, since they are not.

You and I both know there is a dearth of objective analysis on the efficacy of SRS. At best, there is some subjective data out there based on self-reporting, where some of the recipients of said surgery fill out a few questionnaires and hand them to biased professionals looking for positive feedback.

In essence, we do not know if the surgery actually lowers suicide rates or results in any significant long-term improvement for the patients. Many of the claims you've made, such as that 90% of the recipients are happy with the surgery, are the result of these biased analysis mentioned above. Making matters worse, very few subjects are asked by those studying this experience how they feel 40-50 years after the surgery. Patients, like Dr Renee Richards, for example, who said they were happy with the surgery in the decade or so following it but now have regret are basically told to STFU by the army of faithful lemmings out there who now push this crap as some sort of panacea, as if it alone will automagically end their inherent unhappiness.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

You appear to be rather naive. There is one consistency about sexual predators. They use any opportunity made available to them to gain access to victims. This bathroom "pretend to be a transwoman" thing is just one more such opportunity.

Prove it. Plenty of places have had in place policies that allow men to basically dress vaguely as women and use the women's restroom, some for a decade or more.

It isn't the law that keeps these things from happening, it is the nature of the place that is in question. It is public. Most parents take their child to the restroom with them (hence the rise in family restrooms), and girls tend to go to the restroom in groups.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

You and I both know there is a dearth of objective analysis on the efficacy of SRS. At best, there is some subjective data out there based on self-reporting, where some of the recipients of said surgery fill out a few questionnaires and hand them to biased professionals looking for positive feedback.

This is a falsehood based on your own invalid bias. I posted a fairly comprehensive list of the research around this in another thread. I will do so again. Btw... SELF-REPORTING of one's level of happiness is the most accurate way to measure this kind of issue.

In essence, we do not know if the surgery actually lowers suicide rates or results in any significant long-term improvement for the patients. Many of the claims you've made, such as that 90% of the recipients are happy with the surgery, are the result of these biased analysis mentioned above. Making matters worse, very few subjects are asked by those studying this experience how they feel 40-50 years after the surgery. Patients, like Dr Renee Richards, for example, who said they were happy with the surgery in the decade or so following it but now have regret are basically told to STFU by the army of faithful lemmings out there who now push this crap as some sort of panacea, as if it alone will automagically end their inherent unhappiness.

Firstly, the claim you made about the bias is a complete falsehood. You have no evidence to prove that, just your own invalid agenda and willful ignorance on this issue. Secondly, there is no study that measures the difference between suicide rates of transexuals, pre-op vs. post-op. However, the research that demonstrates an absence of GDD, POST-op gives us some good clues into what that research might show. And lastly, are there some who have regrets? Sure. But Dr. Renee Richards is NOT one of them. She does not regret having the surgery at all. Here is a comment from her in a NYT inteview:

Does she regret having the surgery?

“The answer is no.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/01/garden/01renee.html?_r=0

This is you being dishonest ONCE AGAIN, and purposefully misrepresenting something to support your invalid agenda. I DOUBT you will take responsibility for this: you didn't last time.

Dr. Richards regrets somethings. She regrets that she sued the USTA to be allowed to play on the women's tour. She regrets BEING a transsexual and wishes she had been a male without the issue of transsexuality. She wishes that there had been some way to alter her brain, but there wasn't. THAT'S what she regrets. She has NEVER said she regrets the surgery.

You know, calamity, when you lie and misrepresent like you do, you make your side look WORSE than it already does.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

And here... once AGAIN, a list of studies that shows the overwhelming lack of regret around HRT/SRS:

Here are some studies that demonstrate overwhelming satisfaction of HRT/SRS:

Male-to-female transsexualism: a technique, results and long-term follow-up in 66 patients. - PubMed - NCBI

More than 90% of the patients were satisfied with the cosmetic result and capacity for orgasm;
None of the present patients claimed to regret their decision to undergo gender-transforming surgery.

90% satisfied with result, NONE regretted decision.

https://www.skane.se/Upload/Webbplatser/USIL/Dokument/Sjukhusbibliotek/Johansson,%20Annika.pdf

However, the outcome was very encouraging from both perspectives, with almost 90% enjoying a stable or improved life situation at follow-up
When interviewed about how content they were with the SR process as a whole, almost all the patients (95%) rated themselves as satisfied and no one regretted the SR.

90% stable and improved life, 95% were satisfied, and NONE regretted. Some of the clinician's assessment ratings were lower in regards to the first number.

Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals. - PubMed - NCBI

After treatment the group was no longer gender dysphoric. The vast majority functioned quite well psychologically, socially and sexually.

NO GENDER DYSPHORIA. That of course destroys Henrin's completely dishonest and ignorant statement that the treatment does not resolve mental health issues.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets

The regret rate defined as application for reversal of the legalgender status among those who were sex reassigned was 2.2 %for the whole period 1960–2010 with no significant sex difference. .

Long term study. With regret rate at 2.4%, that means satisfaction rate is 97.6%. This study also cites MANY other studies that show a similar satisfaction rate.

Elsevier: Article Locator

On the GAF (DSM-IV) scale the female-to-male transsexuals scored significantly higher than the male-to-females (85.2 versus 76.2). While no difference in psychological functioning (SCL-90) was observed between the study group and a normal population, subjects with a pre-existing psychopathology were found to have retained more psychological symptoms. The subjects proclaimed an overall positive change in their family and social life. None of them showed any regrets about the SRS.

Another long term study. The SCL-90 is an assessment scale that measures a variety of psychological issues such as depression and anxiety (I've used it on occasion). NO difference between post-op transsexuals and the "normal" population. NO regrets.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.1998.tb10001.x/abstract

The results showed that 3.8% of the patients who were sex reassigned during 1972-1992 regretted the measures taken.

Another long term study. 3.8% regret, translating to 96.2% satisfaction. When looking at the reasons for regret, one of the major ones was lack of support from person's family.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1024086814364

Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret.

No regret. Again.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

This is a falsehood based on your own invalid bias. I posted a fairly comprehensive list of the research around this in another thread. I will do so again. Btw... SELF-REPORTING of one's level of happiness is the most accurate way to measure this kind of issue.



Firstly, the claim you made about the bias is a complete falsehood. You have no evidence to prove that, just your own invalid agenda and willful ignorance on this issue. Secondly, there is no study that measures the difference between suicide rates of transexuals, pre-op vs. post-op. However, the research that demonstrates an absence of GDD, POST-op gives us some good clues into what that research might show. And lastly, are there some who have regrets? Sure. But Dr. Renee Richards is NOT one of them. She does not regret having the surgery at all. Here is a comment from her in a NYT inteview:



This is you being dishonest ONCE AGAIN, and purposefully misrepresenting something to support your invalid agenda. I DOUBT you will take responsibility for this: you didn't last time.

Dr. Richards regrets somethings. She regrets that she sued the USTA to be allowed to play on the women's tour. She regrets BEING a transsexual and wishes she had been a male without the issue of transsexuality. She wishes that there had been some way to alter her brain, but there wasn't. THAT'S what she regrets. She has NEVER said she regrets the surgery.

You know, calamity, when you lie and misrepresent like you do, you make your side look WORSE than it already does.

Sounds like a lot of regret to me. But, I figured you would spin it to cover your ass. No surprise there.

"It's not something for somebody in their 40s to do, someone who's had a life as a man, - - - If you're 18 or 20 and never had the kind of (advantages) I had, and you're oriented in that direction, sure, go ahead and make right what nature didn't. But if you're a 45-year-old man and you're an airline pilot and you have an ex-wife and three adolescent kids, you better get on Thorazine or Zoloft or Prozac or get locked up or do whatever it takes to keep you from being allowed to do something like this.''

- Renée Richards, Associated Press, February 1999.


"I wish that there could have been an alternative way, but there wasn't in 1975. If there was a drug that I could have taken that would have reduced the pressure, I would have been better off staying the way I was -- a totally intact person. I know deep down that I'm a second-class woman. I get a lot of inquiries from would-be transsexuals, but I don't want anyone to hold me out as an example to follow. Today there are better choices, including medication, for dealing with the compulsion to crossdress and the depression that comes from gender confusion. As far as being fulfilled as a woman, I'm not as fulfilled as I dreamed of being. I get a lot of letters from people who are considering having this operation...and I discourage them all."

- Ren�e Richards, "The Liason Legacy", Tennis Magazine, March 1999.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

And here... once AGAIN, a list of studies that shows the overwhelming lack of regret around HRT/SRS:

Here are some studies that demonstrate overwhelming satisfaction of HRT/SRS:

Male-to-female transsexualism: a technique, results and long-term follow-up in 66 patients. - PubMed - NCBI



90% satisfied with result, NONE regretted decision.


https://www.skane.se/Upload/Webbplatser/USIL/Dokument/Sjukhusbibliotek/Johansson,%20Annika.pdf



90% stable and improved life, 95% were satisfied, and NONE regretted. Some of the clinician's assessment ratings were lower in regards to the first number.

Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals. - PubMed - NCBI



NO GENDER DYSPHORIA. That of course destroys Henrin's completely dishonest and ignorant statement that the treatment does not resolve mental health issues.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets



Long term study. With regret rate at 2.4%, that means satisfaction rate is 97.6%. This study also cites MANY other studies that show a similar satisfaction rate.

Elsevier: Article Locator



Another long term study. The SCL-90 is an assessment scale that measures a variety of psychological issues such as depression and anxiety (I've used it on occasion). NO difference between post-op transsexuals and the "normal" population. NO regrets.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.1998.tb10001.x/abstract



Another long term study. 3.8% regret, translating to 96.2% satisfaction. When looking at the reasons for regret, one of the major ones was lack of support from person's family.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1024086814364



No regret. Again.

Just stop it. Your previous post on Richards proves you are too biased to accept anything that flies in the face of your narrative. You cherry pick articles that say what you want to hear and ignore Richards' direct statements which say the opposite.

Some people call that lying.

Btw: 90% approval ratings should raise a flag. You'd see it you were objective. Only Putin and the Kim family get 90% approval ratings. :roll:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Sounds like a lot of regret to me. But, I figured you would spin it to cover your ass. No surprise there.

Of course you will continue with your standard dishonesty and misrepresentation. No spin. She DOESN'T regret having the surgery. Not at all. There are other things she regrets, but that's not one.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Just stop it. Your previous post on Richards proves you are too biased to accept anything that flies in the face of your narrative. You cherry pick articles that say what you want to hear and ignore Richards' direct statements which say the opposite.

You're the one lying. Richards regrets things. The surgery is NOT one of them. I quoted her. Your proven invalid agenda causes you to lie and be dishonest on this issue.

Some people call that lying.

And that's what you do and have done. You lie about arguments and when confronted, you cowardly run from that confrontation.

Btw: 90% approval ratings should raise a flag. You'd see it you were objective. Only Putin and the Kim family get 90% approval ratings. :roll:

This is what you do, calamity. When confronted with facts, you squirm, lie, and do NOTHING to disprove them. Show how the research is invalid, methodologically. You and I both know you can't, that you will continue to lie about this topic, never prove a dishonest word you say. And I will just keep humiliating you.

 

[Riveroaks]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Heres something I have seen on facebook, on websites, on message boards and even in an email, though the email was mocking how dumb it was. (And to be fair so were the majority of comments on all those places) It makes me laugh that people think THIS is a logical argument.

"Scenario:
Your 12 year old daughter goes to the bathroom at the restaurant by herself. Your daughter doesn't return for a bit and you go to check on her and hear her crying in a bathroom stall. She runs to you and says a man just touched her privates. You call the police and they come to investigate. Just outside the bathroom is security cameras that records everyone coming and going from the Restrooms.
(Cameras aren't allowed inside the bathrooms) duh!! Your daughter enters the bathroom and just behind her enters what according to the camera appears to be a man. The man is identified later in the investigation and is interviewed by police but says he is transgender and he was just using the bathroom and the little girl is lying.
If people of both sexes are able to enter the bathroom of their choice the little girls statement holds no credibility. "Her word against his"
Now with the "Bathroom Law" in place, preventing a person of the opposite biological sex from entering the bathroom of their choice the little girls statement is credible and the offender has to explain why he entered a women's restroom when knowing it was against the law. This is maybe the evidence that helps convict the defendant or maybe the only evidence.
Now does this help the liberals understand!!!!!!
It's not about discrimination folks.
PLEASE SHARE EVERYONE"

This is beyond mentally retarded and isn't even a good scare tacit . . . here's a question . . . what it the person who touched the 12yr old girl that you chose to send to the restroom by themselves was a woman? oooooooops
If this is a real concern for you it should ALWAYS be a concern for you and don't let your kid go by themselves then.

If somebody would do that, they are a criminal period. .. their gender nor does their sexual orientation matter. . . .just like their race and religion 'matter, good grief I love how dumb these people are. Also love how who ever wrote this tried to make it about liberals . . news flash, many republicans and conservatives don't judge people based on sexual orientation or gender and are fine with transgenders using the facilities they are transitioned too.

Im glad at most the places I saw this people were mocking it and pointing out how dumb it is.

Your rant is rather tedious.

I will therefore reply to your title.

I can see why transgenderism is repulsive. Because it is revolting.

As for the bathrooms, there will just need to be 3 everywhere like at Target now.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Of course you will continue with your standard dishonesty and misrepresentation. No spin. She DOESN'T regret having the surgery. Not at all. There are other things she regrets, but that's not one.

That's a lie. In post 686, I posted her exact words, even bolded the part where she suggests people not do what she did! Smh

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

That's a lie. I posted her exact words. Smh

Post where she says, "I regret having surgery". I posted where she said, "The answer is no" to whether she regrets having surgery. You are lying and your comments prove it.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

You're the one lying. Richards regrets things. The surgery is NOT one of them. I quoted her. Your proven invalid agenda causes you to lie and be dishonest on this issue.



And that's what you do and have done. You lie about arguments and when confronted, you cowardly run from that confrontation.



This is what you do, calamity. When confronted with facts, you squirm, lie, and do NOTHING to disprove them. Show how the research is invalid, methodologically. You and I both know you can't, that you will continue to lie about this topic, never prove a dishonest word you say. And I will just keep humiliating you.

I posted Richards' quotes, directly. You ignored them. You ignore everything that goes against your narrative. It's there for all to see. Live with it.

 

[calamity]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Post where she says, "I regret having surgery". I posted where she said, "The answer is no" to whether she regrets having surgery. You are lying and your comments prove it.

:roll:

Post 686. Spin away, CC. Spin away.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

I posted Richards' quotes, directly. You ignored them. You ignore everything that goes against your narrative. It's there for all to see. Live with it.

I posted Richards' words and quotes directly. You ignored them as you do everything that destroys your invalid agenda. The quotes that you posted did NOT say what you want them to say. You lied as you always do. Live with it.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

:roll:

Post 686. Spin away, CC. Spin away.

Post 692, calamity. Keep lying. It's all you have.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Btw, calamity, I'm waiting for you to refute, methodologically, any of the research that I posted. You and I both know that you are incapable of doing so, but I figured it would be amusing to continue to point out your dishonesty and inability to support your position.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Your rant is rather tedious.

I will therefore reply to your title.

I can see why transgenderism is repulsive. Because it is revolting.

As for the bathrooms, there will just need to be 3 everywhere like at Target now.

Redundant much? You said transgenderism is repulsive because it's revolting. That's basically saying the same thing and it is subjective.

At least you recognize that Target unlike a lot of stores, including a lot that have the same policy as Target, has a family restroom in many locations. The only difference is that target just recently publicly announced their policy during a time when awareness and tension over this issue is high.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

Sounds like a lot of regret to me. But, I figured you would spin it to cover your ass. No surprise there.

CC used the more recent interview. She said specifically that she said what she did then but still doesn't regret the surgery. She may have come to regret pushing some transgender to drug therapy by now, who knows. But that doesn't change the fact that one pretty conservative person regretting that there wasn't another way to alleviate their feelings (which likely are more complicated than even a few interviews can express), is not evidence that most people regret SRS. There is no evidence of any sort of extensive regret of this surgery, including long term. Those who think there is extensive regret are free to do their own research.

 

[Tanola]

Re: I love how stupid the arguments are against transgenders and them using bathrooms

CC,

My apologies for not replying sooner. My M-F schedule tends to be filled with work and parenting, so it's not easy for me to type out serious responses outside of the weekend. I'll do my best to have a reply for your sometime this Saturday or Sunday.