I just found out my daughter is dating a muslim

[CaptainCourtesy]

SgtRock, if I recall correctly, there is even a further complication; you're Jewish. Regardless of all of these complications, I would suggest you meet him and discuss with both of them your concerns, reasonably. The fact that he feels he cannot tell his parents is a problem. Is this accurate, or is it just his belief? If it is accurate, how do each of them feel about it, and in continuing their relationship with these constraints? This particular issue is not an issue solely to Muslims; whites do it with blacks, blacks with whites, Christians with Jews, Jews with Christians, etc... It is more indicative of both the family belief system, and the level of entrenchedness the family has in their religion, their ethnicity, or their bigotry, then of the religion itself.

I would make an assessment of him as a person, beyond his religion...as you would do with anyone dating your daughter. But, considering what you know of his family, you should take the impact his religious beliefs have in his interactions with her.

I there is little you can do to prevent this, and trying might both make it more likely to continue and make it less likely that your daughter will talk with you if there are any problems. If red flags go off, point them out. But that's about it.

Remember something, though. For all of what you say here about Muslims, you've done something right with your daughter: SHE TOLD YOU. That speaks volumes about you as a father. She trusts you enough, even with your beliefs, that she could discuss this with you. Best suggestion I can make in regards to this, is to do EVERYTHING in your power to keep those lines of communication open. Do not be dismissive of her feelings or thoughts, and remain open when talking with them. You are an important ally, not only in this situation, but many others. Position yourself so you can continue to be her ally.

 

[Hatuey]

I think you should have a talk with the guy and explain your situation and what you'd like to see out their relationship. DO NOT start the conversation with some random fact about how X number of women are killed in honor killings every year. Seriously. Do, however, explain it from a human perspective.

 

[Tucker Case]

Tell him that you will gleefully pay midgets to rape his corpse if he so much as thinks about hurting her.

That's something you can say to any guy dating your daughter and it isn't out of line.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Remember something, though. For all of what you say here about Muslims, you've done something right with your daughter: SHE TOLD YOU. That speaks volumes about you as a father.

Quote of the thread.

 

[niftydrifty]

My daughter told me today she is dating a guy from pakistan. He is a muslim. He immigrated here with his family. He graduated from high school in . Apparently they have been dating for a couple of months. His parents are very religious and he can't tell them about my daughter.

You people know me, this is a major quandary for me. I love my daughter very much. I am scared and very worried. I told her that I trust her judgment but she knows me. She knows how I feel. Thats why it was hard for her to tell me about this relationship. I want to meet him. Why do things have to be this way? Why do we hate? I don't know what to do................

Edited by CC to protect privacy.

I haven't heard anything yet about this young man to lead me to conclude that he might be a problem. Your daughter is dating him, so that's one vote of encouragement. and she told you about it, and was honest. that's two. obviously this guy has something going for him. you just need to meet him in order to put your fears to rest. or maybe not.

fear often comes from what we don't know about. ask this guy about his faith. find out more about it. most muslims are peaceful loving people. it sounds like he might be one of them. islamists are different than most muslims.

it's worldview, not the name of their religion, which shapes people and makes them who they are. worldviews vary within all religions, and also amongst non-religious people.

 

[bhkad]

I dated a Muslim once and the whole ordeal was pretty miserable, although not entirely for reasons unique to him being a Muslim.

First of all my exbf wasn't out (which should have been a deal breaker). He was from a very conservative Saudi family (this experience basically made me loathe Saudi culture) and he basically told me coming out with mean he'd be disowned.

And being a Petroleum Science major at MIT and Saudi Arabian and having more money then anyone I've ever seen in my entire life (quite a claim for someone who goes to Boston Jewniversity) I'm pretty sure he's a prince or something. I know he has an enormous trust fund.

I just got tired of being with someone who was miserably repressed and was raised in basically an environment with medieval morality.

What I basically conclude wast that I was dating the equivalent of a closeted repressed Christian zealot with tons of money and an obsession with Bronze Age morality tales.

I mean for awhile it was cool. He was from a different culture, and being a Western hating communist liberal I thought that was very cool. Finally I concluded that I really don't like his culture or his religion, that all it did was remind of psycho desert dwelling ultra-Republicans.

What does this mean for the OP? I don't know, it might not have any relevance at all. My bf was gay, was Arab, was Saudi and was very, very wealthy.

A normal Pakistani guy might be totally different.

Speaking of a medieval morality I was going through some old posts/threads and found this.

From Amir Taheri's, "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Lest us return to the issue of equality.

The idea is unacceptable to Islam.

For the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer.

Even among the believers only those who subscribe to the three so-called Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ( Ahl el-Kitab) are regarded as fully human.

Here is the hierarchy of human worth in Islam:

At the summit are free male Muslims

Next come Muslim male slaves

Then come free Muslim women

Next come Muslim slave women.

Then come free Jewish and /or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian women.

Each category has rights that must be respected.

The People of the Book have always been protected and relatively well-treated by Muslim rulers, but often in the context of a form of apartheid known as dhimmitude.

The status of the rest of humanity, those whose faiths are not recognised by Islam or who have no faith at all, has never been spelled out although wherever Muslim rulers faced such communities they often treated them with a certain measure of tolerance and respect ( As in the case of Hindus under the Muslim dynasties of India.)

Non-Muslims can, and have often been, treated with decency, but never as equals.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1138942/posts

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Speaking of a medieval morality I was going through some old posts/threads and found this.

From Amir Taheri's, "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"



Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

And guess what, bhkad? As usual, your hyperalarmism is completely unhelpful, here. If you have something of value to add, please do. This ain't it.

 

[Anima]

Speaking of a medieval morality I was going through some old posts/threads and found this.

From Amir Taheri's, "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"



Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

FreeRepublic? Seriously? Free Republic's not exactly an impartial source. If a Muslim accidentally ran over a kitten, they'd start a thread on it and list it as "Islamofacists commiting vehicular hate crimes on innocent American kitties! Oh NOEZ!"

Either way, that's one man's opinion. I could link you about a hundred thousand pages of analysis of the Christian faith that shows it's basic tenents in just as negative a light. Every faith has negative aspects, has passages in their respective holy books that would make any right-thinking person ashamed to be the same species as those who wrote them.

Don't try and turn this thread into "A Hundred Easy Ways to Incite Unfounded Hatred and Fear." One of DP's posters has came online to discuss something that's troubling him, and you posting biased, alarmist unfounded rhetoric like the linked article isn't helping with that. He's trying to figure out his feelings on the issue and what he could do for the best. You're just trying to create fear and apprehension. How does that help anyone? How does that contribute to a debate?

 

[bhkad]

And guess what, bhkad? As usual, your hyperalarmism is completely unhelpful, here. If you have something of value to add, please do. This ain't it.

That is your opinion and maybe a few others' as well. But your opinion is inconsequential. I offer that information which happens to be true. You can't dispute it so you attack the poster.

Typical. You don't like being ignored and I got under your skin because I don't like fraternizing with mods. I told you why and you got sore that I was right about your not being able to be a real poster and a mod at the same time.

Yet, you still try to do it and the reason why is so you can always have the power of your position right there to control others and they know it so they can never talk to you the way they would any other poster.

It's like a cop wearing his uniform at a party. No one will give you crap about it and no one will feel comfortable unless they are strait laced or cops or kissing your ass.

I think the information I posted was there for the reading. It is true and you can't debate its veracity. If it helps inform someone's opinion, great. If not, so be it.

You, go polish a nightstick.

Now, I'll go back to ignoring you.

And if you intend to respond petulently everyone will know.

 

[Anima]

That is your opinion and maybe a few others' as well. But your opinion is inconsequential. I offer that information which happens to be true. You can't dispute it so you attack the poster.

Typical. You don't like being ignored and I got under your skin because I don't like fraternizing with mods. I told you why and you got sore that I was right about your not being able to be a real poster and a mod at the same time.

Yet, you still try to do it and the reason why is so you can always have the power of your position right there to control others and they know it so they can never talk to you the way they would any other poster.

It's like a cop wearing his uniform at a party. No one will give you crap about it and no one will feel comfortable unless they are strait laced or cops or kissing your ass.

I think the information I posted was there for the reading. It is true and you can't debate its veracity. If it helps inform someone's opinion, great. If not, so be it.

You, go polish a nightstick.

Now, I'll go back to ignoring you.

And if you intend to respond petulently everyone will know.

bhkad, seriously. You posted an article from an extremely biased website, which included no citations to substantiate what it was saying about Islam or Islamic society, and you claim it has any sort of "veracity" at all?

If you want your sources to be respected, at least choose sources that include citations, substantion of the claims made within and maybe one shred of evidence along with the hateful rhetoric.

 

[bhkad]

FreeRepublic? Seriously? Free Republic's not exactly an impartial source. If a Muslim accidentally ran over a kitten, they'd start a thread on it and list it as "Islamofacists commiting vehicular hate crimes on innocent American kitties! Oh NOEZ!"

Either way, that's one man's opinion. I could link you about a hundred thousand pages of analysis of the Christian faith that shows it's basic tenents in just as negative a light. Every faith has negative aspects, has passages in their respective holy books that would make any right-thinking person ashamed to be the same species as those who wrote them.

Don't try and turn this thread into "A Hundred Easy Ways to Incite Unfounded Hatred and Fear." One of DP's posters has came online to discuss something that's troubling him, and you posting biased, alarmist unfounded rhetoric like the linked article isn't helping with that. He's trying to figure out his feelings on the issue and what he could do for the best. You're just trying to create fear and apprehension. How does that help anyone? How does that contribute to a debate?

So, does Islam treat non-Muslims as equals or not?

And will the Pakistani kid's family treat Sgt.'s daughter as an equal or not?

See, standard FUD techniques don't work when dealing with facts.

:lol:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

That is your opinion and maybe a few others' as well. But your opinion is inconsequential. I offer that information which happens to be true. You can't dispute it so you attack the poster.

Typical. You don't like being ignored and I got under your skin because I don't like fraternizing with mods. I told you why and you got sore that I was right about your not being able to be a real poster and a mod at the same time.

Yet, you still try to do it and the reason why is so you can always have the power of your position right there to control others and they know it so they can never talk to you the way they would any other poster.

It's like a cop wearing his uniform at a party. No one will give you crap about it and no one will feel comfortable unless they are strait laced or cops or kissing your ass.

I think the information I posted was there for the reading. It is true and you can't debate its veracity. If it helps inform someone's opinion, great. If not, so be it.

You, go polish a nightstick.

Now, I'll go back to ignoring you.

And if you intend to respond petulently everyone will know.

I have no problem with you ignoring my posts. I just assumed it was because you were tired of me pointing out the irrelevancy of your arguments.

Your information that you posted was non-pertinent to the thread, as it always is, and as everyone here knows. That is why I attacked it. I have told you and others that I will point this out when I see it. If you do not like that, don't do it. It's really that simple.

And as far as posting as a mod, the only ones who hold that position are the ones that I expose for posting foolishness.

Now, instead of posting your one-trick-pony issue, how about posting something that could help SgtRock. It would be refreshing for you to do that.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

So, does Islam treat non-Muslims as equals or not?

Depends on the person practicing Islam.

And will the Pakistani kid's family treat Sgt.'s daughter as an equal or not?

Depends on their mindset and how they practice Islam.

See how easy it is to completely debunk and destroy your argument?

:laughat::neutral:

 

[bhkad]

bhkad, seriously. You posted an article from an extremely biased website, which included no citations to substantiate what it was saying about Islam or Islamic society, and you claim it has any sort of "veracity" at all?

If you want your sources to be respected, at least choose sources that include citations, substantion of the claims made within and maybe one shred of evidence along with the hateful rhetoric.

Anima, seriously.

Read it then respond.

Otherwise you look silly.

Amir Taheri's remarks during the debate on " Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am glad that this debate takes place in English.

Because, were it to be conducted in any of the languages of our part of the world, we would not have possessed the vocabulary needed.

To understand a civilisation it is important to understand its vocabulary.

If it was not on their tongues it is likely that it was not on their minds either.

There was no word in any of the Muslim languages for democracy until the 1890s. Even then the Greek word democracy entered Muslim languages with little change: democrasi in Persian, dimokraytiyah in Arabic, demokratio in Turkish.

Democracy as the proverbial schoolboy would know is based on one fundamental principle: equality.

The Greek word for equal isos is used in more than 200 compound nouns; including isoteos (equality) and Isologia (equal or free speech) and isonomia (equal treatment).

But again we find no equivalent in any of the Muslim languages. The words we have such as barabari in Persian and sawiyah in Arabic mean juxtaposition or levelling.

Nor do we have a word for politics.

The word siassah, now used as a synonym for politics, initially meant whipping stray camels into line.( Sa'es al-kheil is a person who brings back lost camels to the caravan. )The closest translation may be: regimentation.

Nor is there mention of such words as government and the state in the Koran.

It is no accident that early Muslims translated numerous ancient Greek texts but never those related to political matters. The great Avicenna himself translated Aristotle's Poetics. But there was no translation of Aristotle's Politics in Persian until 1963.

Lest us return to the issue of equality.

The idea is unacceptable to Islam.

For the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer.

Even among the believers only those who subscribe to the three so-called Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ( Ahl el-Kitab) are regarded as fully human.

Here is the hierarchy of human worth in Islam:

At the summit are free male Muslims

Next come Muslim male slaves

Then come free Muslim women

Next come Muslim slave women.

Then come free Jewish and /or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian women.

Each category has rights that must be respected.

The People of the Book have always been protected and relatively well-treated by Muslim rulers, but often in the context of a form of apartheid known as dhimmitude.

The status of the rest of humanity, those whose faiths are not recognised by Islam or who have no faith at all, has never been spelled out although wherever Muslim rulers faced such communities they often treated them with a certain measure of tolerance and respect ( As in the case of Hindus under the Muslim dynasties of India.)

Non-Muslims can, and have often been, treated with decency, but never as equals.

(There is a hierarchy even for animals and plants. Seven animals and seven plants will assuredly go to heaven while seven others of each will end up in Hell.)

Democracy means the rule of the demos, the common people, or what is now known as popular or national sovereignty.

In Islam, however, power belongs only to God: al-hukm l'illah. The man who exercises that power on earth is known as Khalifat al-Allah, the regent of God.

But even then the Khalifah or Caliph cannot act as legislator. The law has already been spelled out and fixed for ever by God.

The only task that remains is its discovery, interpretation and application.

That, of course, allows for a substantial space in which different styles of rule could develop.

But the bottom line is that no Islamic government can be democratic in the sense of allowing the common people equal shares in legislation.

Islam divides human activities into five categories from the permitted to the sinful, leaving little room for human interpretation, let alone ethical innovations.

What we must understand is that Islam has its own vision of the world and man's place in it.

To say that Islam is incompatible with democracy should not be seen as a disparagement of Islam.

On the contrary, many Muslims would see it as a compliment because they sincerely believe that their idea of rule by God is superior to that of rule by men which is democracy.

In Muslim literature and philosophy being forsaken by God is the worst that can happen to man.

The great Persian poet Rumi pleads thus:

Oh, God, do not leave our affairs to us

For, if You do, woe be to us.

Rumi mocks those who claim that men can rule themselves.

He says:

You are not reign even over your beard,

That grows without your permission.

How can you pretend, therefore,

To rule about right and wrong?

The expression "abandoned by God" sends shivers down Muslim spines. For it spells the doom not only of individuals but of entire civilisations.

The Koran tells the stories of tribes, nations and civilisations that perished when God left them to their devices.

The great Persian poet Attar says :

I have learned of Divine Rule in Yathirb ( i.e. Medinah, the city of the Prophet)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1138942/posts

Continued at link.

 

[bhkad]

Depends on the person practicing Islam.



Depends on their mindset and how they practice Islam.

See how easy it is to completely debunk and destroy your argument?

:laughat::neutral:

I'm asking about the religion.

And THAT is an argument you don't want.

 

[bhkad]

I have no problem with you ignoring my posts. I just assumed it was because you were tired of me pointing out the irrelevancy of your arguments.

Your information that you posted was non-pertinent to the thread, as it always is, and as everyone here knows. That is why I attacked it. I have told you and others that I will point this out when I see it. If you do not like that, don't do it. It's really that simple.

And as far as posting as a mod, the only ones who hold that position are the ones that I expose for posting foolishness.

Now, instead of posting your one-trick-pony issue, how about posting something that could help SgtRock. It would be refreshing for you to do that.

Because you haven't the imagination to recognize the pertinence doesn't mean that Sgt. Rock is so limited.

 

[Anima]

So, does Islam treat non-Muslims as equals or not?

Does Christianity treat non-Christians as equals are not, bhkad? I'd certainly have to say no to that one, on some counts at least, considering the freqent threats of hell and damnation handed out to those who don't follow some form of Christianity. There's obviously denominations that don't do this, but a hell of a lot do.

Can you show me one faith on this planet that does treat believers and non-believers equally, that does not evangelise based on the assumption that they're more correct on spiritual matters than anyone else, that doesn't have a creed or holy book which states that non-believers will suffer in some way for their beliefs? You certainly can't single out Islam on that one.

If you'd like to discuss this any further, then feel free to actually put up a decent source for your claims as opposed to a poorly substantiated screed from FreeRepublic, and I'd more than willing to debate you.

And will the Pakistani kid's family treat Sgt.'s daughter as an equal or not?

I don't know. And you certainly don't know. The only way to resolve that issue is for the parties involved to discuss it rationally and calmly, rather than using the whole situation, as you seem to be doing, as an excuse to stir up apprehension or confirm pre-conceived notions of what a certain group of people are like. Funny how much clearer things become when people sit down and relate to those who're different from them, finding common ground and learning to focus on our shared humanity, as opposed to focusing on our own fears of the "other."

See, standard FUD techniques don't work when dealing with facts.

:lol:

As I said, find a source with any facts in it at all, as opposed to scare-mongering drivel, and I'll be happy to discuss it with you, in another thread. This one thread was set-up so we could try and give Sgt. our opinions and suggestions on his situation, and I'm not willing to follow your derailment of it any further.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm asking about the religion.

And THAT is an argument you don't want.

1) Irrelevant to the thread.
2) PEOPLE practice Islam, each, in their own way. THAT is the argument that YOU do not want.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Because you haven't the imagination to recognize the pertinence doesn't mean that Sgt. Rock is so limited.

No, the fact you have imagined that it is pertinent doesn't make it so.

 

[bub]

Speaking of a medieval morality I was going through some old posts/threads and found this.

From Amir Taheri's, "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"



Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

bhkad is back...cool...

 

[Billo_Really]

My daughter told me today she is dating a guy from pakistan. He is a muslim. He immigrated here with his family. He graduated from high school in . Apparently they have been dating for a couple of months. His parents are very religious and he can't tell them about my daughter.

You people know me, this is a major quandary for me. I love my daughter very much. I am scared and very worried. I told her that I trust her judgment but she knows me. She knows how I feel. Thats why it was hard for her to tell me about this relationship. I want to meet him. Why do things have to be this way? Why do we hate? I don't know what to do................

Edited by CC to protect privacy.

Meet the guy and tell him that if he knocks up your daughter, you'll kick his ass!

That's what Allah would do.

Or get him alone, away from your daughter and tell him she's also seeing a guy from India.

 

[Tucker Case]

Meet the guy and tell him that if he knocks up your daughter, you'll kick his ass!

That's what Allah would do.

Or get him alone, away from your daughter and tell him she's also seeing a guy from India.

Or you could doodle a bunch of uncomplimentary images of Muhammed (blowing goats, eating Pork Chops, boozing it up and showing off his moobs like on a Jihadists Gone Wild video*) and then somehow make him think that they were drawn by her.













*If I could draw at all, I would actually make an internet cartoon of this idea.

 

[Tashah]

My daughter told me today she is dating a guy from pakistan. He is a muslim. He immigrated here with his family. He graduated from high school in . Apparently they have been dating for a couple of months. His parents are very religious and he can't tell them about my daughter.

You people know me, this is a major quandary for me. I love my daughter very much. I am scared and very worried. I told her that I trust her judgment but she knows me. She knows how I feel. Thats why it was hard for her to tell me about this relationship. I want to meet him. Why do things have to be this way? Why do we hate? I don't know what to do................

Edited by CC to protect privacy.

SgtRock... Believe it or not, I have gone on dates with a few Arab/Muslim men. Nothing untoward happened. As a matter of fact, they were far more respectful than your average Joe. I well remember this one Persian date. Whenever he said something in earnest sincerity, he would place his hand over his heart to reinforce his words. One can’t help but cherish such an unassuming and natural tenderness.

Your daughter is a living testiment to certain core and family values that were passed on much like an heirloom... from you to her. I know it’s difficult sometimes to trust in this bond, but that is what you must do. Trust her judgement. Let her decide if this man - and all that he is - is deserving of her love and affections. Truly Sgt, I hope these words help in some measure to bring you peace and understanding.

 

[Voidwar]

Your information that you posted was non-pertinent to the thread, as it always is, and as everyone here knows.

Simply false. If the information wasn't salient, then I think the Paki's parents could meet her no problem , RIGHT ???

His parents are very religious and he can't tell them about my daughter.

 

[Hatuey]

Bhkad doesn't know the kid dating SgtRock's daughter. He doesn't know how religious he is or just what kind of person he is. He doesn't know what kind of life the kid has or has had. What music he listens to. How the kid dresses. His attitude. None of it. So then bhkad like the in-box thinker he is. Invades the thread with a 'Islam is Incompatible with Democracy' generic opinion piece by a guy who just like bhkad doesn't know neither of the people in question or for that matter what they're like. It is irrelevant to the thread. Sorry if you those who thanked him for his post can't really distinguish between relevant and irrelevant posts. Example. If the thread was about new coup falling in love with a guy who doesn't like him. I wouldn't invade the thread with posts about how homosexuals have higher rates of STIs. Why? It's simply NOT relevant to the topic in question.