I am worried about Germany (1 Viewer)

[Juks]

Inside and outside the EU we are constantly expecting Germany to always take the biggest burden and even though they do, it is never enough. Germany is no longer the economic wonder it was before 1989. We have squeezed out the prosperity and if we continue we might break them, and what then? Here are some examples:

• In 1991 taxes were raised and the so-called solidarity allowance ("Soli") was introduced- in practice increased income and corporation tax to get the east Germany in line with the western.
• Germany is the country that contributes most of the money to the EU yet the countries that get's the most like Poland and Hungary (per capita Hungary get's the most, 568 euro plus per person, Poland get's the most money, about 18 billions euro every year) hasn't done the investments needed and continue to be subject to corruption. And nothing ever change, it has been this way since 2004.
• During the war in Syria, Germany was one out of two EU countries that had to take the bulk of the refugees, since others refused
• Germany has been the biggest financial contributer to the Ukraine since 2014, yet everyone seems to think that Germany needs to give even more, and more, and more...
• Germany has taken the bulk of the cost for the sanctions in west, yet we somehow expect them to take even more costs, which entails the consequence that they should even accept a society without electricity before we think they given enough.
• Countries , like Greece and Italy that has misconducted their economy rely on support from Germany in order to get on their feets.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

 

[Cordelier]

Inside and outside the EU we are constantly expecting Germany to always take the biggest burden and even though they do, it is never enough. Germany is no longer the economic wonder it was before 1989. We have squeezed out the prosperity and if we continue we might break them, and what then? Here are some examples:

• In 1991 taxes were raised and the so-called solidarity allowance ("Soli") was introduced- in practice increased income and corporation tax to get the east Germany in line with the western.
• Germany is the country that contributes most of the money to the EU yet the countries that get's the most like Poland and Hungary (per capita Hungary get's the most, 568 euro plus per person, Poland get's the most money, about 18 billions euro every year) hasn't done the investments needed and continue to be subject to corruption. And nothing ever change, it has been this way since 2004.
• During the war in Syria, Germany was one out of two EU countries that had to take the bulk of the refugees, since others refused
• Germany has been the biggest financial contributer to the Ukraine since 2014, yet everyone seems to think that Germany needs to give even more, and more, and more...
• Germany has taken the bulk of the cost for the sanctions in west, yet we somehow expect them to take even more costs, which entails the consequence that they should even accept a society without electricity before we think they given enough.
• Countries , like Greece and Italy that has misconducted their economy rely on support from Germany in order to get on their feets.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

I agree with you completely... and I'm also fearful that as these difficulties go on and are exasperated by the strains on the German economy brought on by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that the end result will play into the hands of extremist parties like the far-right AfD.

What we need to be doing in the West right now - especially oil & natural gas exporting countries like the US, Canada, and Norway - is to try to put together some kind of Marshall Plan for energy to keep countries like Germany on-side in standing up to the Russians. It's one thing to talk about standing up to Putin.... but unless the burden of doing so is shared equally, that is all it is... just talk.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I agree with you completely... and I'm also fearful that as these difficulties go on and are exasperated by the strains on the German economy brought on by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that the end result will play into the hands of extremist parties like the far-right AfD.

What we need to be doing in the West right now - especially oil & natural gas exporting countries like the US, Canada, and Norway - is to try to put together some kind of Marshall Plan for energy to keep countries like Germany on-side in standing up to the Russians. It's one thing to talk about standing up to Putin.... but unless the burden of doing so is shared equally, that is all it is... just talk.

BRAVO
Very well said.

 

[Cordelier]

BRAVO View attachment 67381296
Very well said.

Thanks... but I've got my doubts whether the US public will be on-board with that kind of a program. It's going to take an awful lot of convincing to get them to make the kind of sacrifices I'm talking about.

 

[Juin]

Inside and outside the EU we are constantly expecting Germany to always take the biggest burden and even though they do, it is never enough. Germany is no longer the economic wonder it was before 1989. We have squeezed out the prosperity and if we continue we might break them, and what then? Here are some examples:

• In 1991 taxes were raised and the so-called solidarity allowance ("Soli") was introduced- in practice increased income and corporation tax to get the east Germany in line with the western.
• Germany is the country that contributes most of the money to the EU yet the countries that get's the most like Poland and Hungary (per capita Hungary get's the most, 568 euro plus per person, Poland get's the most money, about 18 billions euro every year) hasn't done the investments needed and continue to be subject to corruption. And nothing ever change, it has been this way since 2004.
• During the war in Syria, Germany was one out of two EU countries that had to take the bulk of the refugees, since others refused
• Germany has been the biggest financial contributer to the Ukraine since 2014, yet everyone seems to think that Germany needs to give even more, and more, and more...
• Germany has taken the bulk of the cost for the sanctions in west, yet we somehow expect them to take even more costs, which entails the consequence that they should even accept a society without electricity before we think they given enough.
• Countries , like Greece and Italy that has misconducted their economy rely on support from Germany in order to get on their feets.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

I am beginning to have this feeling this Russo/Ukrainian issue my turn out to be a defininng moment in world history. The ramifications are far and wide. In addition to the points you list, many other issues are gonna be revisited. It is almost as if we are seeing the rewriting of the world order

 

[Mycroft]

Inside and outside the EU we are constantly expecting Germany to always take the biggest burden and even though they do, it is never enough. Germany is no longer the economic wonder it was before 1989. We have squeezed out the prosperity and if we continue we might break them, and what then? Here are some examples:

• In 1991 taxes were raised and the so-called solidarity allowance ("Soli") was introduced- in practice increased income and corporation tax to get the east Germany in line with the western.
• Germany is the country that contributes most of the money to the EU yet the countries that get's the most like Poland and Hungary (per capita Hungary get's the most, 568 euro plus per person, Poland get's the most money, about 18 billions euro every year) hasn't done the investments needed and continue to be subject to corruption. And nothing ever change, it has been this way since 2004.
• During the war in Syria, Germany was one out of two EU countries that had to take the bulk of the refugees, since others refused
• Germany has been the biggest financial contributer to the Ukraine since 2014, yet everyone seems to think that Germany needs to give even more, and more, and more...
• Germany has taken the bulk of the cost for the sanctions in west, yet we somehow expect them to take even more costs, which entails the consequence that they should even accept a society without electricity before we think they given enough.
• Countries , like Greece and Italy that has misconducted their economy rely on support from Germany in order to get on their feets.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

A country can only take so much of being expected to be the piggy bank before they say enough is enough.

Trump did during his term. Biden's pukes reversed him. Who knows? Maybe Germany will finally say enough is enough, too.

 

[Cordelier]

A country can only take so much of being expected to be the piggy bank before they say enough is enough.

Trump did during his term. Biden's pukes reversed him. Who knows? Maybe Germany will finally say enough is enough, too.

All I can say is that it's good thing we didn't adopt that point of view 'round about 1947.

 

[Mycroft]

All I can say is that it's good thing we didn't adopt that point of view 'round about 1947.

And the world is STILL paying for that now...80 years later.

 

[Cordelier]

And the world is STILL paying for that now...80 years later.

Not nearly as much as it would have paid if we had waited until it was too late to act.

You can go ahead and be as isolationist and penny-wise, pound foolish as you want.... but eventually there is always a price to be paid for such short-sightedness.

 

[Mycroft]

Not nearly as much as it would have paid if we had waited until it was too late to act.

You can go ahead and be as isolationist and penny-wise, pound foolish as you want.... but eventually there is always a price to be paid for such short-sightedness.

When Germany became an economic powerhouse it was time to end access to the US piggy bank.

Maybe it's now time to end access to the German piggy bank.

 

[Cordelier]

When Germany became an economic powerhouse it was time to end access to the US piggy bank.

Maybe it's now time to end access to the German piggy bank.

Soooo... forget about the whole ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure concept?

There are two ways a country handles it's foreign policy issues, Mycroft.... it can be pro-active and try to confront them before they get big. Or it can be reactive and just wait to confront them until they become unavoidable.

I don't know if you've noticed... but Germany didn't just throw a bunch of money at Greece. Neither did the IMF. They both demanded pretty strict austerity measures on the part of the Greeks as a condition for the aid.

 

[oneworld2]

I am beginning to have this feeling this Russo/Ukrainian issue my turn out to be a defininng moment in world history. The ramifications are far and wide. In addition to the points you list, many other issues are gonna be revisited. It is almost as if we are seeing the rewriting of the world order

It is a shift in the world order and Germany, along with the rest of Europe will suffer greatly for it.

This war, the creation and response to it have pushed China and Russia, and possibly India into a mutual assistance bloc that will see the rise of Eurasia which is independent of western hegemony.

Europe, energy dependent and in financial trouble, will be hit hard by the sanctions it has passed to use against Russia. Russia will thus sell its energy resources to China and India

 

[Tangmo]

It is a shift in the world order and Germany, along with the rest of Europe will suffer greatly for it.

This war, the creation and response to it have pushed China and Russia, and possibly India into a mutual assistance bloc that will see the rise of Eurasia which is independent of western hegemony.

Europe, energy dependent and in financial trouble, will be hit hard by the sanctions it has passed to use against Russia. Russia will thus sell its energy resources to China and India

This is a Putin Fanboi wet dream since Putin returned to the presidency in 2012 with his new fascist agenda that the Russophiles loved immediately. PutinTrump&Rowers have been delusional for much longer than most had recognized, realized, understood; comprehended.

Since 2015 India has been a signed up "Strategic Partner" of the United States. The formal agreement gives US armed forces full access to all India military bases. This includes full access against third countries: think China, Pakistan, Russia. US is stockpiling at India military bases, from equipment to supplies, ordinance and so on.

One reason for the PutinTrump&RowersFanboy delusions is ignorance. Another major reason is their grandiose nonsense, for which China is historically famous btw. So awaken the mind to the fact that in China each and every dynasty has failed. The CCP-PRC dynasty is in fact a young and nervous dynasty in business suits and Florsheims. Jerks. Yes, CCP is but another hit and run pre determined to fail dynasty of China. It's always rinse and repeat over there.

As for Germany they've been read the Riot Act by NATO. This is because the German model of Russia relations is a complete failure; a miserable disaster. The new coalition government in Berlin has reversed the Russo-German Axis of the past several decades. So It's overwith about Russia and Germany for the long foreseeable future. Which makes this badly conceived Russo-German thread and topic out of gas already.

 

[Juin]

It is a shift in the world order and Germany, along with the rest of Europe will suffer greatly for it.

This war, the creation and response to it have pushed China and Russia, and possibly India into a mutual assistance bloc that will see the rise of Eurasia which is independent of western hegemony.

Europe, energy dependent and in financial trouble, will be hit hard by the sanctions it has passed to use against Russia. Russia will thus sell its energy resources to China and India

Decisions have been taken in Europe with such rapidity that it will take months to assess the effects. What I find disturbing is that sanctions appear to have moved away from the Scholz recommended sanctions policy: maximise damage on Russia, while minimising damage on Europe- to a emotional knee jerk seppuku type sanctions. All caution has been thrown to the winds in the sanctions frenzy. No heed is given to cost. Germany is even being pressed to cut off gas and oil, even though replacement may not be available in the short term, irrespective of price.

 

[Tangmo]

Decisions have been taken in Europe with such rapidity that it will take months to assess the effects. What I find disturbing is that sanctions appear to have moved away from the Scholz recommended sanctions policy: maximise damage on Russia, while minimising damage on Europe- to a emotional knee jerk seppuku type sanctions. All caution has been thrown to the winds in the sanctions frenzy. No heed is given to cost. Germany is even being pressed to cut off gas and oil, even though replacement may not be available in the short term, irrespective of price.

Chancellor Scholz is pretty comfortable with the new pro NATO reorientation he is giving to Germany.

 

[Juin]

Chancellor Scholz is pretty comfortable with the new pro NATO reorientation he is giving to Germany.

You mean pro Ukraine orientation

 

[Antiwar]

It is almost as if we are seeing the rewriting of the world order

That's what's going on. Russia and China are taking advantage of America's decline. Quite a bit of the world is fed up with the USG being the global hegemon.

None of the above should be the global hegemon because there should be no global hegemon. The domination and competition model is literally killing us.

 

[Court Jester]

A country can only take so much of being expected to be the piggy bank before they say enough is enough.

Germany would have done very well to have refused the woke liberalism which I suppose due to past guilt's, compelled Germany to dilute their own culture by allowing so many immigrants which have no shared values into their nation. I believe if most nations were protective of their culture and traditions, the way Japan is, that would be better for them.

Trump did during his term. Biden's pukes reversed him. Who knows? Maybe Germany will finally say enough is enough, too.

Bingo! Not all nationalism is bad, much is actually needed for a country to survive.

 

[Tangmo]

It's under control....

Swiss-based Nord Stream 2 AG has dismissed its entire staff and is considering next financial steps. Rystad senior analyst Kaushal Ramesh had remarked that “the project can now be considered effectively shelved, as can Europe’s and Asia’s hopes of sub-$20/MMbtu prices in the foreseeable future.” Prices may stay high, but Kateryna Filippenko, Wood Mackenzie’s principal analyst for European gas research, noted that Europe’s supply situation has improved. “From record lows at the start of winter, storage levels have now re-entered their 5-year range, albeit on the lower side,” she said, adding that inventories “are on track to be in a more comfortable position by the end of March.”

Nord Stream 2 AG dismisses staff, approaching bankruptcy

Nord Stream 2 AG has dismissed its entire staff and is considering next financial steps. The moves follow last week’s decision by Germany to stop certification of the natural ...

www.ogj.com

Wintershall, university to study North Sea pipelines for CO2​

Wintershall Dea is working with the OTH Regensburg University of Applied Sciences on how existing natural gas pipelines in the southern North Sea can be used for future CO2 transport. Results obtained so far suggest that the offshore pipelines could be safely and efficiently repurposed for transport of liquid CO2. As the study progresses, technical feasibility will be tested, and certification will take place.

Wintershall, university to study North Sea pipelines for CO2

Wintershall Dea is working with the OTH Regensburg University of Applied Sciences on how existing natural gas pipelines in the southern North Sea can be used for future CO2 transport...

www.ogj.com

 

[Tangmo]

You mean pro Ukraine orientation

Tell me more of what I mean thx.

 

[Tangmo]

Where are the usual suspects btw?

The Russo-German Axis Fanbois.

They're pretty much routed by now or I should think.

So the second team has arrived on the playing field.

 

[Juin]

Germany would have done very well to have refused the woke liberalism which I suppose due to past guilt's, compelled Germany to dilute their own culture by allowing so many immigrants which have no shared values into their nation. I believe if most nations were protective of their culture and traditions, the way Japan is, that would be better for them.

Within a few years Ukrainians will constitute a powerful voting block in Germany.

 

[Juks]

As for Germany they've been read the Riot Act by NATO. This is because the German model of Russia relations is a complete failure; a miserable disaster. The new coalition government in Berlin has reversed the Russo-German Axis of the past several decades. So It's overwith about Russia and Germany for the long foreseeable future. Which makes this badly conceived Russo-German thread and topic out of gas already.

Where are the usual suspects btw?

The Russo-German Axis Fanbois.

They're pretty much routed by now or I should think.

So the second team has arrived on the playing field.n overview

I am sorry, but this is total ignorance to what has happend in Germany and in the EU and in Europe for the last four decades, politically and financially. I don't know what to say and I haven't got the time to write the 4 page post it would take to give an overview. It is safe to say that Nordstream is not everything and all things. It would be the same as saying that Hollywood is every and al thing about the US because that is what most of us know about and have a view on here in Europe. The focus from the US on Nordstream over the years is very much because US has had politics and financial interests connected to Nordstream.

Ridiculus.....May be the word that will be thrown between us from now on.

 

[Court Jester]

Within a few years Ukrainians will constitute a powerful voting block in Germany.

Not only voting, but I predict an upsurge in blue eyed children returning to Germany in the coming decades.

 

[joluoto]

I agree with you completely... and I'm also fearful that as these difficulties go on and are exasperated by the strains on the German economy brought on by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that the end result will play into the hands of extremist parties like the far-right AfD.

What we need to be doing in the West right now - especially oil & natural gas exporting countries like the US, Canada, and Norway - is to try to put together some kind of Marshall Plan for energy to keep countries like Germany on-side in standing up to the Russians. It's one thing to talk about standing up to Putin.... but unless the burden of doing so is shared equally, that is all it is... just talk.

Well the Germans ran to Qatar to beg for gas, so maybe the Middle East is the new savior?