human euthanasia--it is happening

[dthmstr254]

This post is a No True Scotsman Fallacy. Do you understand what that means?

The Bible also teaches you to stone people who are against you, kill infidels, and muder people if God gives you persmission.

and now you confuse OT law with NT grace. after Jesus died, many laws about how you deal with criminals changed. the Church is to deal with criminals lovingly, as Jesus dealt with the ones who murdered him, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" the way he treated the thief on the cross, "thou shalt be with me in Paradise" man, the first Christian was a thief! sounds like the grace of God is to reach to all people.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

and now you confuse OT law with NT grace. after Jesus died, many laws about how you deal with criminals changed.

This is mere cherry picking. People keepwhat they want, get rid of what they don't want. Modern Christianity is a smorgasbord of values. People go up to the buffet and pick what they want.

There is no logical distinction between OT rules and NT ones. Jesus said nothing about many of them. You have insane pastors who consistantly refer to OT rules, except when you call them on it; they they claim they don't matter.

Whatever God was responsible for allowing in the Old Testament, Jesus is too responsible for in the time of the NT. God and Jesus are one and the same, and the God of the OT and the NT are the same. God allowed murdering an injustice in the OT, so Jesus, who IS God, is also responsible. The NT god is no better than the OT god. He simply has a new name.

 

[dthmstr254]

you might want to start gaining some credibility with my cohorts before debating the points that i have put up, because i dont read messages from ignorant people.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

you might want to start gaining some credibility with my cohorts before debating the points that i have put up, because i dont read messages from ignorant people.

I have already demolished your points, especially the nonsense claim that the Founding Fathers were Christians. I already proved you wrong. I don't need to prove you wrong twice. I don't give a shat about your cohorts either. Now go play in the road.

I also pointed out your No True Scotsman Fallacy. You ignore fallacies like they don't exist.

 

[Donkey1499]

RIIIIIIIGHT

for some reason this true story is incohesive with the "facts" you have put up. i would like to note that i am a supporter of VOM (Voice Of the Martyrs) and the person who heads the VOM is not happy with the way you have twisted articles that he has posted on his site to suit your own good. here is another fact, America is now the world's biggest missionary field, and down from top dog in sending missionaries to other countries to third place.

I didn't twist the article to suit my own good. I got this article straight from NewsMax.com, but I suppose you missed that. And I don't give a crap if the Head of the VOM is happy with me or not. I just posted an article that had something to do with the discussion at the time.

 

[Donkey1499]

Old Testament and New Testament Laws. Hmmm... I follow the OT Levitical Laws, which are God's orders; not the NT Laws which are Jesus' orders. And I don't see Jesus and God as the same (which the Holy Trinity shows that: Father, SON, and Holy Ghost); Jesus is only the SON of God. He's half of whatever God is and half of whatever Mary is. His Step Dad is Joseph and his Half Brother is James. But why do I follow God's orders and not Jesus' most of the time? Cuz it's like in the military, a General (God) tells me to continue fighting the battle, but my Colonel (Jesus) tells me to retreat. Who am I going to listen to? The General, every time.

But the book of Revelations shows Jesus as a warrior who fights against Satan's minions. But you have to have faith first in order to believe any of this.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

The problem is, Jesus IS God. Jesus is just a different manifestation of God in the form of the Son. God, the beared man in the sky, is the Father. They are still one and the same being. THey are separate AND united as one. THis makes no sense, but that doesn't stop it from being promulgated.

 

[Donkey1499]

The problem is, Jesus IS God. Jesus is just a different manifestation of God in the form of the Son. God, the beared man in the sky, is the Father. They are still one and the same being. THey are separate AND united as one. THis makes no sense, but that doesn't stop it from being promulgated.

That's why I have broken away from the Main Stream Christians. I can't believe that Jesus and God are the same, cuz that's like saying that my Dad and I are the same just because I'm his son. When really I'm just a chip off the old block. Also, you hear that whole "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" (Of which I sometimes interpret that to mean the 3 monotheistic religions: The Father {Judaism}, the Son {Christianity}, and the Holy Ghost {Islam}).

How I interpret that is quite simple: Judaism was created in the Worship of God, the Creator/Father. Christianity just spawned off of Judaism (The Tora and the OT are the same thing basically). Thus bringing the "Son" image, which doesn't always have to be known as Jesus. Then the Holy Ghost, which I believe is the Prophet Muhammed, who started Islam when he was visited by an Angel of God. And Muhammed is a Ghost now, cuz he's dead obviously.

But because of my findings, I've had other Christians (Mostly Right-Wing Christians of the Rush Limbaugh calibur) call me a heretic. Which are some pretty harsh words coming from ppl who tell others to love your enemies. The pastor at my church is pretty open-minded about theories and guesses that I bring to him though.

 

[dthmstr254]

That's why I have broken away from the Main Stream Christians. I can't believe that Jesus and God are the same, cuz that's like saying that my Dad and I are the same just because I'm his son. When really I'm just a chip off the old block. Also, you hear that whole "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" (Of which I sometimes interpret that to mean the 3 monotheistic religions: The Father {Judaism}, the Son {Christianity}, and the Holy Ghost {Islam}).

How I interpret that is quite simple: Judaism was created in the Worship of God, the Creator/Father. Christianity just spawned off of Judaism (The Tora and the OT are the same thing basically). Thus bringing the "Son" image, which doesn't always have to be known as Jesus. Then the Holy Ghost, which I believe is the Prophet Muhammed, who started Islam when he was visited by an Angel of God. And Muhammed is a Ghost now, cuz he's dead obviously.

But because of my findings, I've had other Christians (Mostly Right-Wing Christians of the Rush Limbaugh calibur) call me a heretic. Which are some pretty harsh words coming from ppl who tell others to love your enemies. The pastor at my church is pretty open-minded about theories and guesses that I bring to him though.

once you stop believing that Jesus and God are the same, then you have denied the divinity of Christ and therefore are not a Christian. you have three ways of gathering someone.
1.) meeting them. Jesus is the manifestation we meet.
2.) hearing what they say. the Bible, inspired by God, is God's Word. God the Father manifests Himself through the Bible.
3.) hearing what they are like. the Holy Spirit is the manifestation that shows what God is like
this is a concise version of the reason we believe in the Trinity. if you want to refute the argument, keep the arguments to "Trinity--fact or fiction."

 

[dthmstr254]

I didn't twist the article to suit my own good. I got this article straight from NewsMax.com, but I suppose you missed that. And I don't give a crap if the Head of the VOM is happy with me or not. I just posted an article that had something to do with the discussion at the time.

like trying to lay the full blame of the persecution of Christians on other countries? so expelling my friends for praying before they eat is not a form of persecution? you are way on the liberal side if that is what you believe.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

like trying to lay the full blame of the persecution of Christians on other countries? so expelling my friends for praying before they eat is not a form of persecution? you are way on the liberal side if that is what you believe.

Prove he was expelled for praying. Your evidence is wanting.

 

[dthmstr254]

Prove he was expelled for praying. Your evidence is wanting.

so now you want me to show you evidence that is considered a part of my friends identity? no way. there is no way of proving it, unless you plan on hunting me down and interviewing my friend, which i doubt you have the resources to do. i will not post his transcripts on this site. oh yeah, what evidence have you brought to the table. I brought the foundation for this debate, its up to you to add to the foundation too, you cant go knocking down other peoples walls with a toothpick, you got a sledgehammer to bring to the table, or will i have to suffice with a pinprick.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

so now you want me to show you evidence that is considered a part of my friends identity? no way.

Then don't mention it. Anecdotal Evidence is not evidence of anything. It's another logical fallacy.

Source: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#anecdotal


Explanation/Examples


1. One of the simplest fallacies is to rely on anecdotal evidence [.... Anecdotes don't actually prove anything to anyone. Your friend may say he met Elvis in the supermarket, but those who haven't had the same experience will require more than your friend's anecdotal evidence to convince them.

Anecdotal evidence can seem very compelling, especially if the audience wants to believe it. This is part of the explanation for urban legends; stories which are verifiably false have been known to circulate as anecdotes for years.

there is no way of proving it, unless you plan on hunting me down and interviewing my friend, which i doubt you have the resources to do. i will not post his transcripts on this site.

If there is no way of proving it, then you ought never say it. Unprovable admissions do not belong in debate.

 

[dthmstr254]

Then don't mention it. Anecdotal Evidence is not evidence of anything. It's another logical fallacy.

Source: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#anecdotal


Explanation/Examples


1. One of the simplest fallacies is to rely on anecdotal evidence [.... Anecdotes don't actually prove anything to anyone. Your friend may say he met Elvis in the supermarket, but those who haven't had the same experience will require more than your friend's anecdotal evidence to convince them.

Anecdotal evidence can seem very compelling, especially if the audience wants to believe it. This is part of the explanation for urban legends; stories which are verifiably false have been known to circulate as anecdotes for years.




If there is no way of proving it, then you ought never say it. Unprovable admissions do not belong in debate.

since you want proof of how the United States is persecuting Christians, here is a link to the history of and the reason for the Christian Law Association:
http://www.christianlaw.org/about.html
oh, also get off your "logical fallacies". guess what. every debater makes them, including you Mr. Perfect.

 

[Donkey1499]

like trying to lay the full blame of the persecution of Christians on other countries? so expelling my friends for praying before they eat is not a form of persecution? you are way on the liberal side if that is what you believe.

What the Hell are you talking about? I told you where I got that story from! And I ain't no damned liberal either. You need to lay off the crack, man.

 

[dthmstr254]

What the Hell are you talking about? I told you where I got that story from! And I ain't no damned liberal either. You need to lay off the crack, man.

oh. you arent? then you make one darn good actor.

 

[Donkey1499]

once you stop believing that Jesus and God are the same, then you have denied the divinity of Christ and therefore are not a Christian. you have three ways of gathering someone.
1.) meeting them. Jesus is the manifestation we meet.
2.) hearing what they say. the Bible, inspired by God, is God's Word. God the Father manifests Himself through the Bible.
3.) hearing what they are like. the Holy Spirit is the manifestation that shows what God is like
this is a concise version of the reason we believe in the Trinity. if you want to refute the argument, keep the arguments to "Trinity--fact or fiction."

>Sigh< So I guess I ain't a Christian now either, huh? Yeah, well Jesus and God are linked thru divinity. They are not the same being. Cuz why would Jesus say that 1.) He is the Son of man, 2.) The Son of God, 3.) He is God? I just don't understand it. I get the "Son of God/Man" part. But how can you be the Son of God AND be God at the same time. It's impossible in my opinion. Plus, Jesus prayed to God many times and even spoke openly to him while on the cross.

And I don't care what labels are laid upon me, cuz I know that I believe in God. I was thinking about switching to Judaism anyways. It's less confusing.

 

[dthmstr254]

>Sigh< So I guess I ain't a Christian now either, huh? Yeah, well Jesus and God are linked thru divinity. They are not the same being. Cuz why would Jesus say that 1.) He is the Son of man, 2.) The Son of God, 3.) He is God? I just don't understand it. I get the "Son of God/Man" part. But how can you be the Son of God AND be God at the same time. It's impossible in my opinion. Plus, Jesus prayed to God many times and even spoke openly to him while on the cross.

And I don't care what labels are laid upon me, cuz I know that I believe in God. I was thinking about switching to Judaism anyways. It's less confusing.

to answer this question i need to have you answer one question: do you believe God is all-powerful, all-seeing, omnipotent, omniscient, everywhere, and all-knowing?

 

[Donkey1499]

oh. you arent? then you make one darn good actor.

When did I say that your friends weren't persecuted? WHEN!?!?!?!?! What the Hell were they doing praying in the middle of class anyways. Isn't it better to pray in silence and solitude to better concentrate on God?

Plus, even IF they were expelled there's a court out there that would get them back to class. Christians MAY be persected here, but it's not as bad as everywhere else.

 

[dthmstr254]

When did I say that your friends weren't persecuted? WHEN!?!?!?!?! What the Hell were they doing praying in the middle of class anyways. Isn't it better to pray in silence and solitude to better concentrate on God?

Plus, even IF they were expelled there's a court out there that would get them back to class. Christians MAY be persected here, but it's not as bad as everywhere else.

Ephesians 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[Donkey1499]

to answer this question i need to have you answer one question: do you believe God is all-powerful, all-seeing, omnipotent, omniscient, everywhere, and all-knowing?

Yes, but to claim that one is the Son of God and then turn around and say that he IS God is a little misleading. Like I said, I was thinking about switching to Judaism anyways.

 

[Donkey1499]

Ephesians 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Excuse me for my Floridian education, but what is "supplication?" And it sounds like you got that from KJV. I like to read NIV and TEV. It's more clearer on the vocabulary.

 

[dthmstr254]

Yes, but to claim that one is the Son of God and then turn around and say that he IS God is a little misleading. Like I said, I was thinking about switching to Judaism anyways.

then you have denied that God is all-powerful. how can an all-powerful God, be limited to not manifesting Himself in human form?

 

[Donkey1499]

then you have denied that God is all-powerful. how can an all-powerful God, be limited to not manifesting Himself in human form?

You still don't get what I'm trying to say... Jesus claims to be the SON OF GOD; then later on he claims to BE GOD! How is that possible? Either he is one or the other. And God wouldn't need to manifest himself to one form, He appeared to Moses as a Burning Bush for crying out loud!!! If I was to follow your reasoning then the Anti-Christ is really Satan, and that can't be possible either. It's like saying that you and a woman produced a son, then you tell everyone that that boy isn't really a boy of his own person, but really just a clone of you even tho he carries his mother's traits (ex. Hair, eyes, or nose).

I'm trying to explain my case here, but you'll probably still just say that I deny that God is all powerful. Which is just as bad as calling me a heretic. But go ahead, see if I care.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

It's not possible. That's the problem. It's an impossible illogical statement. You cannot be both the Father and the Son at the same time. Christianity's trinity is inherently irratational. You have to believe in on faith, not reason, which is why it's stupid.