How would you reduce the price of healthcare in the US?

[aociswundumho]

The annual US healthcare cost associated with physical inactivity alone is estimated at $192 billion.

192 billion is about 4% of the 5 trillion we spend on healthcare each year.

 

[aociswundumho]

The cost of Obesity, smoking, and drug use far exceeds your other concerns, and they directly affect health.

Smokers save money by dying early:

The net effect of smoking on healthcare and welfare costs. A cohort study | BMJ Open

 

[ataraxia]

Here's a pie chart showing where all the money goes:

View attachment 67594257

This breaks it down further:

View attachment 67594258

So let's hear your ideas. Remember, medicare for all mean a huge spike in demand which will push prices much higher than they are now.

As long as Science And technology advance, the price is going to keep going up. The only way to bring prices down is to just let some, or many, people suffer and/or die from treatable causes, or to put a halt to the advance of the Science And technology. There is no other way.

So society is going to have to decide how much, if any, of those things it wants to have.

 

[Grand Mal]

Here's a pie chart showing where all the money goes:

View attachment 67594257

This breaks it down further:

View attachment 67594258

So let's hear your ideas. Remember, medicare for all mean a huge spike in demand which will push prices much higher than they are now.

Where's the cost of insurance?

 

[aociswundumho]

As long as Science And technology advance, the price is going to keep going up.

Advances in technology typically makes things cheaper. Would you like me to list about 10,000 examples?

The only way to bring prices down is to just let some, or many, people suffer and/or die from treatable causes, or to put a halt to the advance of the Science And technology. There is no other way.

Really. So there's no fat in this hospital bill:

 

[Greenbeard]

Advances in technology typically makes things cheaper. Would you like me to list about 10,000 examples?

Learning is fun!

https://www.healthaffairs.org/content/forefront/why-isn-t-innovation-helping-reduce-health-care-costs

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Single Payer

 

[aociswundumho]

Learning is fun!

It is!

That article's point isn't that innovation cant reduce costs, it's that our incentive structure prevents it from doing so. The US rewards what they call additive, revenue-expanding "innovations" instead of disruptive, cost-cutting ones:

Taken together, these observations suggest that innovation in health care is preferentially designed for revenue expansion rather than for cost reduction.

In a normal market, better tech makes things cheaper. In the US healthcare system, every player - providers, insurers, and even the regulators - is paid more when costs rise. With no incentive to reduce spending, it's no surprise that the innovations they prefer to adopt don't reduce costs either.

 

[ataraxia]

Advances in technology typically makes things cheaper. Would you like me to list about 10,000 examples?



Really. So there's no fat in this hospital bill:


View attachment 67594274

Hasn’t happened to cars, or planes. Why brain surgery?

 

[Greenbeard]

It is!

That article's point isn't that innovation cant reduce costs, it's that our incentive structure prevents it from doing so. The US rewards what they call additive, revenue-expanding "innovations" instead of disruptive, cost-cutting ones:



In a normal market, better tech makes things cheaper. In the US healthcare system, every player - providers, insurers, and even the regulators - is paid more when costs rise. With no incentive to reduce spending, it's no surprise that the innovations they prefer to adopt don't reduce costs either.

You’re getting very close to how the ACA flattened the cost curve for 15 years.

 

[aociswundumho]

Hasn’t happened to cars, or planes. Why brain surgery?

It has happened to cars, just not in the US. You can thank government regulation, which outlaws cheap cars in the same way it has outlawed cheap housing.

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electrek.co

 

[ataraxia]

It is!

That article's point isn't that innovation cant reduce costs, it's that our incentive structure prevents it from doing so. The US rewards what they call additive, revenue-expanding "innovations" instead of disruptive, cost-cutting ones:



In a normal market, better tech makes things cheaper. In the US healthcare system, every player - providers, insurers, and even the regulators - is paid more when costs rise. With no incentive to reduce spending, it's no surprise that the innovations they prefer to adopt don't reduce costs either.

In many industries, like electronics or software, it’s true that new technology increases efficiency and reduces cost per unit.

But in healthcare, new technology often adds capabilities rather than replacing older, less efficient ones. For example, MRI scanners, robotic surgery systems, and new biologic drugs offer better or more precise care—but they also come with huge development, maintenance, and training costs. And instead of making older treatments obsolete, they tend to expand what medicine can do, meaning more patients get more (and more expensive) treatments.

Add to that the high regulatory burden and the highly litigious and demanding nature of the US healthcare consumer, the push for cutting-edge care, and the structure of U.S. insurance and reimbursement systems—which reward doing more rather than saving money—and you get a situation where innovation often leads to higher spending rather than savings.

 

[ataraxia]

It has happened to cars, just not in the US. You can thank government regulation, which outlaws cheap cars in the same way it has outlawed cheap housing.

BYD's low-cost Seagull EV now starts at under $8,000 in China

BYD’s cheapest EV in China just got even more affordable. After cutting prices this month, the BYD Seagull EV starts...

electrek.co

If we could go back to bleeding people into a basin to “let out the evil humors” when they were sick, we would dramatically cut healthcare costs.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The unhealthy eating, smoking and lack of exercise i definitely agree with. Too bad our food processors and advertising campaigns are trying to kill us. The one thing I agree with crazy rfk Jr is the reduction in processed foods. We need a national campaign for healthy eating and exercise along with curbing the major food producers from producing harmful products like what was done with smoking. Of course you run into the constitution and individual and corporate rights. Not to mention all the drugs the pharmaceutical industry produces to combat all the ills created by our bad habits. They have no incentive to create healthier people. No easy solutions.

 

[aociswundumho]

You’re getting very close to how the ACA flattened the cost curve for 15 years.

Obamacare didn't change the underlying incentives, it just redistributed the pain. Providers, insurers, and regulators still profit when costs rise, which is why spending kept outpacing inflation even during the so-called “flattened” years. After covid healthcare costs were rising faster than gdp - just like before.

 

[Greenbeard]

Obamacare didn't change the underlying incentives, it just redistributed the pain.

False.

But I suppose believing this would leave one puzzled as to how the only decade-plus period of zero excess health care cost growth ever came about.

 

[Threegoofs]

Honestly, a huge part of the costs for Medicare is the spend in the last year of life. Some of this is understandable, but I’ve seen way too many families insist on keeping grandma alive (and suffering) for no good reason.

Promoting hospice care and curtailing cancer treatments after the age of 80 is probably worth exploring.

 

[Allan]

Remember, medicare for all mean a huge spike in demand which will push prices much higher than they are now.

Countries with universal access have lower costs.

 

[Greenbeard]

Countries with universal access have lower costs.

Also, here.

 

[Individual]

Eliminate government deficit spending, simple fix would be to add a surtax to the Federal income tax form. It would appear FY2025 tax forms would require multiplying the tax owed from the tax tables by 1.32.

 

[ataraxia]

The unhealthy eating, smoking and lack of exercise i definitely agree with. Too bad our food processors and advertising campaigns are trying to kill us. The one thing I agree with crazy rfk Jr is the reduction in processed foods. We need a national campaign for healthy eating and exercise along with curbing the major food producers from producing harmful products like what was done with smoking. Of course you run into the constitution and individual and corporate rights. Not to mention all the drugs the pharmaceutical industry produces to combat all the ills created by our bad habits. They have no incentive to create healthier people. No easy solutions.

Michelle Obama was trying to do that in public schools, and she was being called a Nazi.

 

[aociswundumho]

Countries with universal access have lower costs.

Sure, but that's because they all use price controls. And price controls come with their own mess - like fewer doctors and long waiting lists. Price controls don't actually cut costs, they just hide them. That's why canadians pay less at the doctor but pay with their time instead.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Michelle Obama was trying to do that in public schools, and she was being called a Nazi.

Bloomberg tried to reduce the size of big gulps and was vilified. God forbid you can't by a gallon of ready to drink sugary soda.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Eliminate government deficit spending, simple fix would be to add a surtax to the Federal income tax form. It would appear FY2025 tax forms would require multiplying the tax owed from the tax tables by 1.32.

I doubt anyone would propose a 32% increase in all FIT bracket rates.

 

[Allan]

Sure, but that's because they all use price controls. And price controls come with their own mess - like fewer doctors and long waiting lists. Price controls don't actually cut costs, they just hide them. That's why canadians pay less at the doctor but pay with their time instead.

Some UHC systems have more doctors per capita than the US.

As for price controls - you think American insurance companies don't control prices? Not only that but they restrict treatment services, something that never happens in countries like Canada. We never hear "pre-existing condition" or "out of network".