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How was the election stolen?

They have. That's why I've said there's mountains of evidence.


If you wanted to see the evidence, you would have already seen it. After all, the only way not to see mountains is to keep your head in a hole.

If it were compelling, you'd be falling over yourself to distribute it.

If you could present a single instance where a judge has disregarded legitimate evidence, you'd be well on your way to converting me.
 
And yet...the opposition to finding the fact is STILL being opposed.

Go figure...

Maybe what they're opposed to is participating in the ongoing Q-pubican campaign to undermine and discredit our democracy.
 
Do you know what a forensic audit is?
It's when a corporation, individual, or organization has their finances gone through with a fine toothed comb. The word is simply being misused when associated with an election audit. Probably because it sounds impressive.
 
As I said...if it slapped you upside the head.

The fact that your only cogent response is sarc and snark shows you have no real rebuttal to the mountains of evidence.
Mountains of evidence that you can't actually produce, huh?

Evidence that the US AG, the FBI and the federal elections chief can't find either

Nope, my assessment was spot on
 
Mountains of evidence that you can't actually produce, huh?

Evidence that the US AG, the FBI and the federal elections chief can't find either

Nope, my assessment was spot on
Those people you mention could have seen the evidence...if they had looked at it instead of telling their people to stop investigating, like Barr did.
 
For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.
It wasn't. Only nutters are out there claiming it was.
 
Those people you mention could have seen the evidence...if they had looked at it instead of telling their people to stop investigating, like Barr did.
So either there were mountains of evidence and absolutely everyone else was maligned against seeing this evidence, tossing 50+ court cases, audits and recounts reconfirming the results all faked, etc. Or....or....there's no "mountains of evidence".

lol

This "it's everybody else!" CT narrative is completely laughable.
 
It's when a corporation, individual, or organization has their finances gone through with a fine toothed comb. The word is simply being misused when associated with an election audit. Probably because it sounds impressive.
From my understanding, a forensic audit -- as it applies to companies -- is when potential fraud or malfeasance is found/suspected during the process of a regular audit. Then a deep dive is done into that particular issue. It's done on an as-needed basis. It would be prohibitive to do a forensic audit on every transaction "just in case." Since there's no evidence of fraud with the Arizona audit, Cyber Ninja is "gish galloping" in the hopes of finding something.
 
Here is why I don't believe you:
You are not supposed to believe me, because I am not trying to convince you of anything. Check the facts for yourself and believe that.

What is more plausible? That fraud was committed in ten states--states with very low electoral vote numbers--instead of larger states that would have required less acts of fraud?
Where did you get this idea. It has no relation to what has been posted. Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan are not small states.

Instead of rigging Georgia and Arizona (a total of 16 electoral votes) why not rig Florida...you get as many EVs plus some to spare?
You might as well throw in Texas. No one said they did not and both states have acted aggressively to update their election procedures. This might be an indication that there were attempts.

It is worth noting that Florida was in the spotlight after the 2000 election and had additional issues in 2004. The state made a significant effort to upgrade over the last 15 years.

The GOP gained ground in the House. How in the world did that happen if there was all of this fraud? Seems odd that you'd want to give more seats to your opponent if you're rigging an election.
Far from odd, this is one of red the flags that there was fraud possible at the top of the ballot. It's far simpler to prepare a fake ballot that only votes of President, or President and Senator, which don't change district to district.

Why didn't the supposed fraudsters deliver Georgia outright? If there was fraud on the behalf of Biden...why not give him both Senate seats outright?
That is worth investigating. There are signs of tampering in states that went for Trump. One possible reason is that election day Republican turnout swamped the prepared positions.

None of the other losers from election night seem to believe there was fraud. Why are they not up in arms too?
Few races are close enough. The Presidential election was paper-thin, which is necessary for fraud to work without being obvious.
 
I hope I'm wrong too, but the evidence is too strong to ignore. GOP policy today, besides tax cuts for the rich, is literally doing whatever possible to oppose "the libs', even if it's policy they once supported.
Apparently that tactic was popularized by Gingrich.
 
For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.
That's actually a great question. Well first, for a little history lesson, for four years while Trump was president the left cried nonstop that Russia stole our election with zero evidence (didn't hear the media call them out on that). They couldn't find even one vote Russia changed so they claimed Russia "influenced" the election, while not being able to prove that anything Russia did influenced even one person's vote.

Now, back to the future. If you want my opinion, which you asked for, the 2020 election WAS stolen from Trump but it was not stolen in the way that Trump and most on the right claim it was. It was stolen by the mainstream media who had an agenda for four years to take Trump down by constantly reporting 24/7 everything bad about Trump and the right they could (even if they had to do a lot of twisting and taking out of context). If Trump or the right did anything good it was not reported and swept under the rug. The MSM influenced the election against Trump and stole the election for Biden. Now, I'm not for foreign governments, such as Russia, influencing our elections but I am also against the liberal media doing the same thing. It's a sad day in society when the media influences the election process to get the results that fit their agenda.
 
Mountains of evidence that you can't actually produce, huh?

Evidence that the US AG, the FBI and the federal elections chief can't find either

Nope, my assessment was spot on
I think the point is you need to be slapped upside the head as much as he has.

Still need evidence? A few more slaps upside the head will clear things up.
 
I think the point is you need to be slapped upside the head as much as he has.

Still need evidence? A few more slaps upside the head will clear things up.
Sorry, the idea of some conspiracy whackjobs doing anything other than cowering at home yelling at the internet; is not something that ever crossed my mind
 
So, nobody that still believes the 'election was stolen' will answer this?

Here's what I've asked. I cant tell you how many times I've posted this and not one of them can give a logical answer:

So then what does/did the GOP know and understand after the election? They had 2.5 months to investigate, as a whole...with their majority and resources. To convene a commission, to investigate the claims, to audit, to seek verifiable facts, etc. Where was that federal investigation? They could STILL pursue it now but certainly they had more power and the majority then to back them and do everything legally in their power to retain control of the WH and their power in Washington.​
Why didnt they? Why didnt they do everything legally possible to retain the WH and their power by creating a commission to investigate claims of fraud and a stolen election? Or to drive any coordinated federal investigation at all?

The only answers I've gotten were "They were tired of the Dems and the liberal media constantly attacking them" and "to protect the country from further "chaos"." :rolleyes: The chaos got worse, see: Jan 6...and the ongoing fallout from it. And as long as they continue to lie about it, that Big Lie requires countering...it's not attacking to try and make people see reality. You cant let crap like that stand, look how many people still believe it and react crazily? Even violently?

So if they cant understand this, or explain it...what's keeping them convinced of the Big Lie? (somewhat rhetorical but perhaps there's some rational explanation?) @Jay59 you just asked a similar question. What are your thoughts?
 
The members of Congress are not involved.
?? Why are they not involved? They can convene commissions, investigations, etc. They're involved, they wanted to retain power and the majority in DC, right? To have their candidate in the WH?

Why didnt they do everything legally possible to retain that power?
 
That's actually a great question. Well first, for a little history lesson, for four years while Trump was president the left cried nonstop that Russia stole our election with zero evidence (didn't hear the media call them out on that). They couldn't find even one vote Russia changed so they claimed Russia "influenced" the election, while not being able to prove that anything Russia did influenced even one person's vote.

Now, back to the future. If you want my opinion, which you asked for, the 2020 election WAS stolen from Trump but it was not stolen in the way that Trump and most on the right claim it was. It was stolen by the mainstream media who had an agenda for four years to take Trump down by constantly reporting 24/7 everything bad about Trump and the right they could (even if they had to do a lot of twisting and taking out of context). If Trump or the right did anything good it was not reported and swept under the rug. The MSM influenced the election against Trump and stole the election for Biden. Now, I'm not for foreign governments, such as Russia, influencing our elections but I am also against the liberal media doing the same thing. It's a sad day in society when the media influences the election process to get the results that fit their agenda.
Good post.

If I read what you posted correctly then you believe the voting was accurate and there is no "massive fraud". It was the MSM that some listened to turned them against voting for Trump. Seems to me the call for audits and recounts then is a waste of taxpayer money.
 
That's actually a great question. Well first, for a little history lesson, for four years while Trump was president the left cried nonstop that Russia stole our election with zero evidence (didn't hear the media call them out on that). They couldn't find even one vote Russia changed so they claimed Russia "influenced" the election, while not being able to prove that anything Russia did influenced even one person's vote.
++ Let me correct some of your misconceptions. I dont remember any significant person on the "left" claiming that Russia stole our 2016 election: 1- US intelligence agencies claimed Russians tried to influence it; 2- Trump himself encouraged Russia to get involved, then believed Putin's denial and not our agencies.
Now, back to the future. If you want my opinion, which you asked for, the 2020 election WAS stolen from Trump but it was not stolen in the way that Trump and most on the right claim it was. It was stolen by the mainstream media who had an agenda for four years to take Trump down by constantly reporting 24/7 everything bad about Trump and the right they could (even if they had to do a lot of twisting and taking out of context). If Trump or the right did anything good it was not reported and swept under the rug. The MSM influenced the election against Trump and stole the election for Biden. Now, I'm not for foreign governments, such as Russia, influencing our elections but I am also against the liberal media doing the same thing. It's a sad day in society when the media influences the election process to get the results that fit their agenda.
++ There was and still is no need to bend, twist, spin, exaggerate or take out of context anything about Trump. He provided the material. He lied countless times, insulted huge portions of the US populace, said a judge couldn't be impartial because his grandparents were from Mexico, wouldn't reveal his taxes, praised dictators, insulted allies, called for our military to do torture and war crimes, pardoned service members whom our military had charged or convicted of murder, couldn't even bring himself to admit he made a mistake about the Central Park Five, etc. His administration started with chaos at airports, ended with chaos in the Capitol. (Top that, Biden!) No need to spin those things; they speak for themselves.
 
So, nobody that still believes the 'election was stolen' will answer this?

Here's what I've asked. I cant tell you how many times I've posted this and not one of them can give a logical answer:

So then what does/did the GOP know and understand after the election? They had 2.5 months to investigate, as a whole...with their majority and resources. To convene a commission, to investigate the claims, to audit, to seek verifiable facts, etc. Where was that federal investigation? They could STILL pursue it now but certainly they had more power and the majority then to back them and do everything legally in their power to retain control of the WH and their power in Washington.​
Why didnt they? Why didnt they do everything legally possible to retain the WH and their power by creating a commission to investigate claims of fraud and a stolen election? Or to drive any coordinated federal investigation at all?

The only answers I've gotten were "They were tired of the Dems and the liberal media constantly attacking them" and "to protect the country from further "chaos"." :rolleyes: The chaos got worse, see: Jan 6...and the ongoing fallout from it. And as long as they continue to lie about it, that Big Lie requires countering...it's not attacking to try and make people see reality. You cant let crap like that stand, look how many people still believe it and react crazily? Even violently?

So if they cant understand this, or explain it...what's keeping them convinced of the Big Lie? (somewhat rhetorical but perhaps there's some rational explanation?) @Jay59 you just asked a similar question. What are your thoughts?
To answer your last point/question about what's keeping them convinced of the Big Lie: it is already or will become like the "Lost Cause" of the South post civil war, or the Nazi theory of Germany being "stabbed in the back" at the end of WWI -- a way to explain what they cannot accept. That, plus a fear of Trump's attacks. That they turned and made into a GOP "non-person" a solid conservative like Liz Cheney for stating what they all quietly believe says it all.
 
Now, back to the future. If you want my opinion, which you asked for, the 2020 election WAS stolen from Trump but it was not stolen in the way that Trump and most on the right claim it was. It was stolen by the mainstream media who had an agenda for four years to take Trump down by constantly reporting 24/7 everything bad about Trump and the right they could (even if they had to do a lot of twisting and taking out of context). If Trump or the right did anything good it was not reported and swept under the rug. The MSM influenced the election against Trump and stole the election for Biden. Now, I'm not for foreign governments, such as Russia, influencing our elections but I am also against the liberal media doing the same thing. It's a sad day in society when the media influences the election process to get the results that fit their agenda.
I've posted my comments on this to you, and you didnt respond. Perhaps now?

Many right-wingers swear there's no way that The Donald could have lost because "Biden hid in his basement and didnt do interviews or go out much to campaign."​
Here we have someone (you) insisting the opposite: that The Donald's huge, dangerous campaign events that were televised and the interviews that were televised and the free airtime The Donald got any time he chose to do a WH press conference...didnt work in The Donald's favor. :rolleyes: That stuff was ALL in The Donald's own words. We all heard it, read the quotes. The media didnt change that.​
 
That's actually a great question. Well first, for a little history lesson, for four years while Trump was president the left cried nonstop that Russia stole our election with zero evidence (didn't hear the media call them out on that). They couldn't find even one vote Russia changed so they claimed Russia "influenced" the election, while not being able to prove that anything Russia did influenced even one person's vote.

Now, back to the future. If you want my opinion, which you asked for, the 2020 election WAS stolen from Trump but it was not stolen in the way that Trump and most on the right claim it was. It was stolen by the mainstream media who had an agenda for four years to take Trump down by constantly reporting 24/7 everything bad about Trump and the right they could (even if they had to do a lot of twisting and taking out of context). If Trump or the right did anything good it was not reported and swept under the rug. The MSM influenced the election against Trump and stole the election for Biden. Now, I'm not for foreign governments, such as Russia, influencing our elections but I am also against the liberal media doing the same thing. It's a sad day in society when the media influences the election process to get the results that fit their agenda.

Well, when you lead with a strawman, you know the rest is suspect. The left didn't claim that Russia stole the election. The claim was that Russia assisted Trump by forwarding anti-Hillary propaganda, which they did. Then, Trump spent four years slobbering all over Putin's junk, like a good whore.

As for you blaming the media for daring to report what a piece of shit Trump is, I believe they showed great restraint. Trump's actions, while president, wete as corrupt, scurrilous and unethical as any who have ever served. In the wake of his time in office, I have come to redefine, in my own mind, the very porous moral boundaries of republican politics. Trump has done more harm to America than Putin ever could and the blind, fascist dogs who just follow the scent of his fat ass are being led to ruin.
 
That's actually a great question. Well first, for a little history lesson, for four years while Trump was president the left cried nonstop that Russia stole our election with zero evidence (didn't hear the media call them out on that). They couldn't find even one vote Russia changed so they claimed Russia "influenced" the election, while not being able to prove that anything Russia did influenced even one person's vote.
"The Left" claimed all of that, huh?

Are you sure that's not just what "the Right" likes to say....because "the Right" watches a lot of FAKENEWS and generally just lies a lot?

Can you post some (or any) links to support your claim that "the left" cried that Russian stole the election.....or that Russian "changed votes"

Now, back to the future. If you want my opinion, which you asked for, the 2020 election WAS stolen from Trump but it was not stolen in the way that Trump and most on the right claim it was. It was stolen by the mainstream media who had an agenda for four years to take Trump down by constantly reporting 24/7 everything bad about Trump and the right they could (even if they had to do a lot of twisting and taking out of context). If Trump or the right did anything good it was not reported and swept under the rug. The MSM influenced the election against Trump and stole the election for Biden. Now, I'm not for foreign governments, such as Russia, influencing our elections but I am also against the liberal media doing the same thing. It's a sad day in society when the media influences the election process to get the results that fit their agenda.
Even if the above had a scintilla of truth to it (and, of course, it does not).....that's not stealing an election.

That's just a loser's gripe.

But the truth is that Trump lost...convincingly. Biden beat him fair and square. And he beat Trump in spite of the fact that the entire Trump campaign was built upon a coordinated campaign of lies, smears and dirty tricks. We all know that. Even you know it.

The truth is nearly as obscure or ambiguous as the FauxNews crowd tries, so desperately, to portray it to be.

It would be nice if conservatives FINALLY began to practice some of the "personal responsibility" stuff that they love to preach, at some point before they all go to their graves. I'm not counting on it, but I remain prayerful about it.
 
If we had a few decent investigations we would know more, but everyone has insisted the Emperor's new wardrobe is spectacular.

There are many indicators--eg widely different voting patterns in adjacent states, unexpectedly high turnout, things happening in the middle of the night when everything was supposed to be shut down, etc. It is well documented that many anti-fraud practices were set aside because of COVID. In that context, it is plausible that organized widescale fraud was attempted in about ten states.

The Secretary of State in Georgia appears close to admitting that a decisive number of ballots ought to have been flagged. Whether there was actual fraud is less clear, but it seems certain that a case can be made, in Georgia at least. Other key states have less cooperative governments. There is plenty of smoke stains, but no sign of the Fire Marshal.


Another sartorial fan chimes in.
We've had dozens of investigations. From the DHS, DOJ, the US AG etc. We know without doubt there was no fraud.
 
Those people you mention could have seen the evidence...if they had looked at it instead of telling their people to stop investigating, like Barr did.
So there are hundreds of republican governors, secretaries of state, judges, department heads etc that all conspired to install a democrat into the presidency? Do you not feel even slightly embarrassed peddling this bullshit?
 
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