How was the election stolen?

[Nickyjo]

For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.

 

[bongsaway]

It wasn't stolen so expect no answers. All the right has are allegations, allusions, innuendo and bullshit in general but absolutely no proof to back up their claim the election was stolen from trump. Their proof is trump said so.

 

[Jay59]

For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.

If we had a few decent investigations we would know more, but everyone has insisted the Emperor's new wardrobe is spectacular.

There are many indicators--eg widely different voting patterns in adjacent states, unexpectedly high turnout, things happening in the middle of the night when everything was supposed to be shut down, etc. It is well documented that many anti-fraud practices were set aside because of COVID. In that context, it is plausible that organized widescale fraud was attempted in about ten states.

The Secretary of State in Georgia appears close to admitting that a decisive number of ballots ought to have been flagged. Whether there was actual fraud is less clear, but it seems certain that a case can be made, in Georgia at least. Other key states have less cooperative governments. There is plenty of smoke stains, but no sign of the Fire Marshal.

It wasn't stolen so expect no answers. All the right has are allegations, allusions, innuendo and bullshit in general but absolutely no proof to back up their claim the election was stolen from trump. Their proof is trump said so.

Another sartorial fan chimes in.

 

[Mycroft]

For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.

What is particularly damning is that there are mountains of evidence and indications, but the people who are SUPPOSED to investigate that stuff have either refused or conducted a bogus, useless investigation. And when someone comes along who wants to conduct an actual forensic investigation, they are met with resistance and opposition. We are even seeing some counties trying to erase all election data...which is against the law.

People are going through extraordinary measures to prevent any kind of meaningful investigation. Why is that? What are they trying to hide?

Anyway, real investigations are starting to be done...in spite of the opposition. We will find out the results in due time.

Oh...and, to answer your question: "Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of?"

It was a cabal of Trump haters that span both political parties and the coverup includes members of state governments, the federal executive, legislative branches and the entire judiciary. The desire to prevent Trump from winning the 2020 election transcends all ideologies.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The election was not stollen, there is no “evidence” that is damning, and at the end of the day President CheetoVonTweeto still lost.

Big hint, tomorrow Trump still will have lost.

 

[Nickyjo]

If we had a few decent investigations we would know more, but everyone has insisted the Emperor's new wardrobe is spectacular.

There are many indicators--eg widely different voting patterns in adjacent states, unexpectedly high turnout, things happening in the middle of the night when everything was supposed to be shut down, etc. It is well documented that many anti-fraud practices were set aside because of COVID. In that context, it is plausible that organized widescale fraud was attempted in about ten states.

The Secretary of State in Georgia appears close to admitting that a decisive number of ballots ought to have been flagged. Whether there was actual fraud is less clear, but it seems certain that a case can be made, in Georgia at least. Other key states have less cooperative governments. There is plenty of smoke stains, but no sign of the Fire Marshal.


Another sartorial fan chimes in.

So you have anecdotes which seem to represent things that probanpbly happen in every election, with allowance for the pandemic. But you offer no link to a coherent theory as to who organized this, why/when, who staffed it, how no one has come forward to sell a story. Did the DNC or some caucus within meet a year before the election and set this in motion?

What is particularly damning is that there are mountains of evidence and indications, but the people who are SUPPOSED to investigate that stuff have either refused or conducted a bogus, useless investigation. And when someone comes along who wants to conduct an actual forensic investigation, they are met with resistance and opposition. We are even seeing some counties trying to erase all election data...which is against the law.

People are going through extraordinary measures to prevent any kind of meaningful investigation. Why is that? What are they trying to hide?

Anyway, real investigations are starting to be done...in spite of the opposition. We will find out the results in due time.

Oh...and, to answer your question: "Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of?"

It was a cabal of Trump haters that span both political parties and the coverup includes members of state governments, the federal executive, legislative branches and the entire judiciary. The desire to prevent Trump from winning the 2020 election transcends all ideologies.

Who staffed this enormous undertaking? The entire judiciary was involved? Even Trump’s appointees? Can you provide a link to the theory of the case. Again, I have to ask, how do Trump’s consistent claims of fraud figure into your decision to believe him? Do you believe the following elections were rigged?:
Romney’s loss to Obama
The Iowa caucus
The 2016 popular vote
AZ, FL, GA, elections in 2017-18
The Emmys when “The Apprentice” didn’t win

In all the above, Trump claimed fraud. Of course the boy who cried wolf was right the last time, but doesn’t the pattern disturb you a bit?

 

[Lursa]

For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.

Here's what I've asked. I cant tell you how many times I've posted this and not one of them can give a logical answer:

So then what does/did the GOP know and understand after the election? They had 2.5 months to investigate, as a whole...with their majority and resources. To convene a commission, to investigate the claims, to audit, to seek verifiable facts, etc. Where was that federal investigation? They could STILL pursue it now but certainly they had more power and the majority then to back them and do everything legally in their power to retain control of the WH and their power in Washington.​

​

Why didnt they? Why didnt they do everything legally possible to retain the WH and their power by creating a commission to investigate claims of fraud and a stolen election? Or to drive any coordinated federal investigation at all?​

The only answers I've gotten were "They were tired of the Dems and the liberal media constantly attacking them" and "to protect the country from further "chaos"." The chaos got worse, see: Jan 6...and the ongoing fallout from it. And as long as they continue to lie about it, that Big Lie requires countering...it's not attacking to try and make people see reality. You cant let crap like that stand, look how many people still believe it and react crazily? Even violently?

So if they cant understand this, or explain it...what's keeping them convinced of the Big Lie? (somewhat rhetorical but perhaps there's some rational explanation?) @Jay59 you just asked a similar question. What are your thoughts?

 

[NolanVoyd]

What is particularly damning is that there are mountains of evidence and indications, but the people who are SUPPOSED to investigate that stuff have either refused or conducted a bogus, useless investigation. And when someone comes along who wants to conduct an actual forensic investigation, they are met with resistance and opposition. We are even seeing some counties trying to erase all election data...which is against the law.

People are going through extraordinary measures to prevent any kind of meaningful investigation. Why is that? What are they trying to hide?

Anyway, real investigations are starting to be done...in spite of the opposition. We will find out the results in due time.

Oh...and, to answer your question: "Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of?"

It was a cabal of Trump haters that span both political parties and the coverup includes members of state governments, the federal executive, legislative branches and the entire judiciary. The desire to prevent Trump from winning the 2020 election transcends all ideologies.

Lol.

What evidence?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

It wasn't stolen so expect no answers. All the right has are allegations, allusions, innuendo and bullshit in general but absolutely no proof to back up their claim the election was stolen from trump. Their proof is trump said so.

Republicans do not need anyone but their base to believe their BS. But outside of the ill-informed most Republicans assert the BS knowing its BS that needs to assert to get the base to their coup bullshit. They need the idiots to wage war, so, therefore "STOLEN!"

 

[itstony]

Funny how no one talks about election fraud except on Internet forums, waiting to see something from a reputable source and an opinion from a judge. Until then it's not worth talking about. Please don't post links from Fox News, OAN or Newsmax, I said reputable sources.

 

[Quag]

This belongs in the CT section

 

[Hari Seldon]

For those who have followed this issue and/or those who believe the 2020 election was stolen, has there been any overall theory advanced anywhere as to who did it and how? I have posted opinions that it would be extremely difficult, pretty labor intensive and hard to keep secret. There presumably would have to be planning beforehand (Trump predicted fraud months before November, but I don't recall anyone asking him how he knew or how it would happen), swing states identified and targeted, staff assembled and some strategy laid out. Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of? Any Sherlock's out there with links to a coherent theory of the case? The above may sound smarmy, I know, but I am actually really interested.

The other question: has anyone ever mentioned to Trump that he has always claimed fraud or rigging elections, and ask him point blank why we should believe him this time? I have asked his followers here in DP if consistent claims of fraud by Trump in the past affect their evaluation of this latest one, but no one has responded.

The malignant narcissist scumbag POS grifter and seditionist lost so his idiot sycophants' claim it was stolen. Based on how they acted on 1/6 its not much of a surprise.

 

[Airyaman]

What is particularly damning is that there are mountains of evidence and indications,

Mycroft is the ant, so you see his mountains.

 

[Nickyjo]

Here's what I've asked. I cant tell you how many times I've posted this and not one of them can give a logical answer:

So then what does/did the GOP know and understand after the election? They had 2.5 months to investigate, as a whole...with their majority and resources. To convene a commission, to investigate the claims, to audit, to seek verifiable facts, etc. Where was that federal investigation? They could STILL pursue it now but certainly they had more power and the majority then to back them and do everything legally in their power to retain control of the WH and their power in Washington.​

​

Why didnt they? Why didnt they do everything legally possible to retain the WH and their power by creating a commission to investigate claims of fraud and a stolen election? Or to drive any coordinated federal investigation at all?​

The only answers I've gotten were "They were tired of the Dems and the liberal media constantly attacking them" and "to protect the country from further "chaos"." The chaos got worse, see: Jan 6...and the ongoing fallout from it. And as long as they continue to lie about it, that Big Lie requires countering...it's not attacking to try and make people see reality. You cant let crap like that stand, look how many people still believe it and react crazily? Even violently?

So if they cant understand this, or explain it...what's keeping them convinced of the Big Lie? (somewhat rhetorical but perhaps there's some rational explanation?) @Jay59 you just asked a similar question. What are your thoughts?

My best guess is that this is based not on evidence, but on Trump’s ego and republicans fear of him and his supporters. He is a fascist wannabe (don’t think of Hitler, but of Mussolini) and such folks attract fierce loyalty. He himself described (and insulted) some of his supporters when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and not lose them. Good news: depending on Arizona and/or more indictments of Trump people and emerging evidence against him, support will fade, and with it the notion of a stolen election. But, sounding like a broken record here on DP, I am amazed that none of his supporters will address Trump’s consistent refusal to accep negative election results. Do they like being scammed?

 

[Jay59]

So you have anecdotes which seem to represent things that probanpbly happen in every election, with allowance for the pandemic. But you offer no link to a coherent theory as to who organized this, why/when, who staffed it, how no one has come forward to sell a story. Did the DNC or some caucus within meet a year before the election and set this in motion?

Who staffed this enormous undertaking? The entire judiciary was involved? Even Trump’s appointees? Can you provide a link to the theory of the case. Again, I have to ask, how do Trump’s consistent claims of fraud figure into your decision to believe him? Do you believe the following elections were rigged?:
Romney’s loss to Obama
The Iowa caucus
The 2016 popular vote
AZ, FL, GA, elections in 2017-18
The Emmys when “The Apprentice” didn’t win

In all the above, Trump claimed fraud. Of course the boy who cried wolf was right the last time, but doesn’t the pattern disturb you a bit?

If you are going to mischaracterize responses like this, no wonder you are fishing. To the best of my knowledge, there has been one forensic audit, when there should have been over a dozen. You Emperors longjohns are showing.

 

[reflechissez]

If you are going to mischaracterize responses like this, no wonder you are fishing. To the best of my knowledge, there has been one forensic audit, when there should have been over a dozen. You Emperors longjohns are showing.

Do you know what a forensic audit is?

 

[D_NATURED]

What is particularly damning is that there are mountains of evidence and indications, but the people who are SUPPOSED to investigate that stuff have either refused or conducted a bogus, useless investigation. And when someone comes along who wants to conduct an actual forensic investigation, they are met with resistance and opposition. We are even seeing some counties trying to erase all election data...which is against the law.

People are going through extraordinary measures to prevent any kind of meaningful investigation. Why is that? What are they trying to hide?

Anyway, real investigations are starting to be done...in spite of the opposition. We will find out the results in due time.

Oh...and, to answer your question: "Was it the DNC, or a rogue actor they were not aware of?"

It was a cabal of Trump haters that span both political parties and the coverup includes members of state governments, the federal executive, legislative branches and the entire judiciary. The desire to prevent Trump from winning the 2020 election transcends all ideologies.

Wow, to live in the paranoid mind of a Trump supporter must be a form of Hell. To imagine a myriad of complex scenarios, of groups of powerful opponents pulling secret strings to undo the orange one's destiny, of Chinese ballots and other liberal treachery must be torture. How I pity you.

The most obvious, simple answer is that Trump lost by millions of votes and his followers can't accept it. They've made a religion out of a man who, ironically, has no moral compass, only self-interest. And, for their man-god, no fabricated story is too dumb, no cost to the country or their intellectual integrity is too great for them to sacrifice in His name.

 

[Mycroft]

Wow, to live in the paranoid mind of a Trump supporter must be a form of Hell. To imagine a myriad of complex scenarios, of groups of powerful opponents pulling secret strings to undo the orange one's destiny, of Chinese ballots and other liberal treachery must be torture. How I pity you.

The most obvious, simple answer is that Trump lost by millions of votes and his followers can't accept it. They've made a religion out of a man who, ironically, has no moral compass, only self-interest. And, for their man-god, no fabricated story is too dumb, no cost to the country or their intellectual integrity is too great for them to sacrifice in His name.

And yet...the opposition to finding the fact is STILL being opposed.

Go figure...

 

[TobyOne]

How was the 2016 election stolen? Hilary has had some time to figure it out. Maybe she now knows.

 

[Lursa]

If you are going to mischaracterize responses like this, no wonder you are fishing. To the best of my knowledge, there has been one forensic audit, when there should have been over a dozen. You Emperors longjohns are showing.

Why didnt such forensic audits take place? Why didnt Republican Congresspeople insist on them? For their states or as a whole suit?

 

[Jay59]

Do you know what a forensic audit is?

Of course.

Are you asking how a forensic audit of vote tabulations differs from a financial forensic audit? In either case the purpose is to provide expert testimony for court.

Why didnt such forensic audits take place? Why didnt Republican Congresspeople insist on them? For their states or as a whole suit?

Do you realize that you answered your own question?

 

[CaughtInThe]

it wasn't.


the whole goal is to keep people talking about it.

 

[Antiwar]

How was the 2016 election stolen? Hilary has had some time to figure it out. Maybe she now knows.

Interstate Crosscheck.

 

[reflechissez]

Are you asking how a forensic audit of vote tabulations differs from a financial forensic audit? In either case the purpose is to provide expert testimony for court.

No. I am asking if you know what a forensic audit is and how it differs from a regular audit. Hint: it occurs AFTER fraud or malfeasance has been found.

 

[Hampton86]

And yet...the opposition to finding the fact is STILL being opposed.

Go figure...

Already determined

You just don't like the answer

Being a sore loser isn't reasonable cause