How things have changed: from Bernie detractor to Bernie voter

[bongsaway]

Bernie will take the Dems Senate hopes down with him. That is the sad fact. The could even lose seats in the House in purple States too. This is not the election to push radical change, voters want sanity and security not another 4 years of chaos. But go ahead vote with your heart instead of your head. What do life long politicians know right? Oh and the Florida polls show Sanders behind Trump and Biden ahead.

Senate Democrats queasy over Sanders as nominee | TheHill

I'm voting in a primary it's not the presidential election and even if it were and bernie was the democratic nominee, I would gladly vote for him. I don't vote for who I think can beat trump or what the polls are saying. I vote to keep my ideals in place and my conscience as clear as possible.

Whoever the dems nominate, including the bloomer which I don't care for, I will hold my nose and vote for him any day before trump.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Are the Democrats foolish enough to nominate an Independent socialist as their candidate? Bernie is not a Democrat. He is seeking the Democratic nomination while fighting the Democratic leadership.

Bernie is more of a Democrat than most 'Democrats' in Congress. He's not a "socialist"; that's a lie, and you know it but tell it anyway.

WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont offered a vigorous defense of the democratic socialism that has defined his five decades in political life on Wednesday, while tying his presidential campaign to the legacies of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Martin Luther King Jr.

Bernie Sanders Calls His Brand of Socialism a Pathway to Beating Trump - The New York Times

Politically, one doesn't shoot for the moon when the opposition controls the White House and the Senate. One waits until one's party controls the White House and Congress, then works toward needed changes.

Bernie and Lizzy have it ass backwards.

Which is why neither will become President.

I noticed no one disagreed with my analysis stated earlier.

Are the Democrats foolish enough to nominate an Independent socialist as their candidate? Bernie is not a Democrat. He is seeking the Democratic nomination while fighting the Democratic leadership.

That leads one to believe a vote for Bernie is a vote for rebellion, a vote for a revolution.

The vast majority of Americans are in no mood for rebellion. That was tried in 2016 when Trump, the unconventional newcomer, challenged party leadership. The result was a disaster. Americans are not looking for revolution. They simply want to rid themselves of Trump.

That won't happen. 63 million Americans voted for Trump. They haven't gone away, and they certainly won't vote for a socialist. So, if the Democrats are foolish enough to nominate Bernie, they are already 63 million votes in the hole.

Then there are conservative Independents like me. As of December 2019, Gallup polling found that 28% of Americans identified as Democrat, 28% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent. They won't vote for a socialist, either. If Bernie is nominated, the Democrats can kiss the Independent vote away, too.

Then there the Democrats. There are a huge number of Democrats who are moderate or conservative and most will not vote for a socialist. The Democratic Party can kiss those votes away as well.

Who does support Bernie? The 18 to 30 crowd, most without a college education, and the worst voting block in the country.

Nominating Bernie insures another four years of Trump. Good Lord, that can't happen!

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Who does support Bernie? The 18 to 30 crowd, most without a college education, and the worst voting block in the country.

Nominating Bernie insures another four years of Trump. Good Lord, that can't happen!

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is rising in the polls among Democrats, but questions about his electability against President Trump persist because he self-identifies as a democratic socialist.

A new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll backs up the idea that the label could hurt him.

Asked about their impression of socialism, 28% of adults said they have a favorable view, while 58% said they had an unfavorable one.

Just 23% of independents, though, and 7% of Republicans viewed socialism favorably.

Poll: Socialism Unpopular Even As Sanders Rises In 2020 Race : NPR

Why do some Democrats, particularly Sanders Democrats who are responsible for Trump in 2016 (Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof), wish to reelect Trump?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Dear, I belong to the top 2% of the entire US population in household income and net worth. You may take a wild guess regarding whether or not I'm a net tax-payer.

Don't think that everybody votes with self-interest at heart. There are some people out there who are not selfish.

While it is nice to know that you are so wealthy as to not be concerned about increasing your federal tax burden, being in the top 2% is obviously not the typical financial position held by the electorate. Having to pay some out of pocket expenses (deductibles and/or co-pays) in addition to premiums (even while having government subsidized insurance) is not the least bit unusual and is, in fact, what current Medicare coverage offers.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

I'm back from early voting. My state is a Super Tuesday one and early voting is open; I have a day off from work today so I went ahead and got there, and cast my ballot.

I think it is rather interesting that you and all the Sanders supporters listed below on your OP are avoided my posts.

Posts 352 and 353.

 

[Craig234]

I think it is rather interesting that you and all the Sanders supporters listed below on your OP are avoided my posts.

It doesn't deserve much response. We can start with you dishonestly, knowingly using the unqualified word "socialism" to describe Sanders. Don't care to waste time on people who behave that way.

 

[GreatNews2night]

While it is nice to know that you are so wealthy as to not be concerned about increasing your federal tax burden, being in the top 2% is obviously not the typical financial position held by the electorate. Having to pay some out of pocket expenses (deductibles and/or co-pays) in addition to premiums (even while having government subsidized insurance) is not the least bit unusual and is, in fact, what current Medicare coverage offers.

But Sanders plan would put a stop to co-pays and deductibles.

 

[GreatNews2night]

I think it is rather interesting that you and all the Sanders supporters listed below on your OP are avoided my posts.

Posts 352 and 353.

What are you talking about? I've answered you many times. But things move fast, I'm not always catching up to everything. I'm not here exclusively paying attention to you.

 

[SoCal]

Thank you for the kind words and the matching testimony to mine, regarding Western European-style health care (I snipped that part for brevity)

Sure, Bernie is divisive, but NOT if he actually wins the nomination, because it is pretty clear that most Dem and Dem-leaning independents would flock to him, against Trump. If he is NOT the nominee, that's when the party is likely to fracture...

This being such a unique election, I think the Democrats will flock to whoever wins the nomination.
If he's not the nominee and the party does fractures, it'll be the fault of the Sanders Cult yet again.

...But now, Bernie *is* the front runner, and yes, this time he *is* electable. There are lots of people who may still oppose him and may still vote for other Dems in the primaries, but if and once Bernie wins the nomination (and so far statisticians like Nate Silver give him the best odds of winning the nomination among all Dem candidates including Bloomberg), they will join him, and may even have a bit of a thought of "oh well, we didn't pick him in 2016; that didn't work out so well; let's give him a chance now; anybody but Trump."...

He's the 'front runner' in white caucus states. Anything's possible, lets see how he does in more divers states. The Nevada election might be a good indicator

...So, don't count Bernie out so fast. With a good veep, his chances will improve.

Yes, I know, veeps usually don't count, but this time they will, given that the two front runners for the Dem nomination, Bernie and Bloomberg (some polls still have Biden as second but this won't last) are both 78 years old. This has never happened before. These are the oldest candidates we've ever had. They are way more likely to die in office than any other previous president, Bernie even more as he seems to be in poorer health than Bloomberg. So, yes, this time people will pay close attention to a veep, and if Bernie picks a more moderate one to throw a bone to the moderate wing of the party, this may reassure a lot of people and may be very unifying, and then, with all hands on deck, beating Trump, while difficult, won't be impossible.

You need to believe, my friend! Let's be optimistic and let's work hard to make it happen!

I used to be optimistic, then almost half of America elected and still supports the tyrant Don. That really burst my bubble. These are the same people who blindly follow a despot who's above the law, as long as they get rid of the foreigners and the undesirables. Watch some historic film of a Il Duce rally and you'll see the same feverish clamor for more...

 

[ttwtt78640]

But Sanders plan would put a stop to co-pays and deductibles.

OK, so that would instantly increase demand for preventive, wellness and/or diagnostic physical/mental health care but do nothing to increase the supply of it. Who among us would not seek to have any ache, pain, discomfort, anxiety, lump, bump, wart or bruise or simple curiosity about a perceived physical/mental "condition" professionally evaluated, scanned or tested for (and treated) if it was absolutely free?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

That's not what AOC actually said; she said that such a compromise outcome is a notable possibility in a Dem dominant federal government, not that it's guaranteed.

And what reason do I have to believe Klobuchar wouldn't immediately throw cold water on Sanders' entire platform?

What she said was "Even Bernie can't wave a magic wand."

"The worst-case scenario? We compromise deeply and we end up getting a public option," Ocasio-Cortez told HuffPost. "Is that a nightmare? I don't think so."

And that doesn't mean AOC would throw cold water on MFA, it means she understands the reality of working with Congress. So does Bernie, so does Amy. And again, in the end, it boils down to these much vaunted and much revered "moderates" who still dream of "reaching across the aisle" like it's the "Hands Across America" music video. (which by the way I worked on!!!)

Dear moderates: Please show us where those moderates on the GOP side are, and where they live, because since 1994 and the Newt Reign of Terror and ever since, they sure as **** don't live on Capitol Hill.
And it's been getting progressively worse!
Where are these "moderates" our "moderate Democratic President" is supposed to work with?
WHERE?

404 - NOT FOUND

 

[Surrealistik]

What she said was "Even Bernie can't wave a magic wand."

Yes she did, but at no point did she say his goals were impossible, or compromise that results in a mere public option was inevitable.

And that doesn't mean AOC would throw cold water on MFA, it means she understands the reality of working with Congress. So does Bernie, so does Amy. And again, in the end, it boils down to these much vaunted and much revered "moderates" who still dream of "reaching across the aisle" like it's the "Hands Across America" music video. (which by the way I worked on!!!)

Dear moderates: Please show us where those moderates on the GOP side are, and where they live, because since 1994 and the Newt Reign of Terror and ever since, they sure as **** don't live on Capitol Hill.
And it's been getting progressively worse!
Where are these "moderates" our "moderate Democratic President" is supposed to work with?
WHERE?

404 - NOT FOUND

AOC wouldn't throw cold water on MFA, but you know as well as I do that Amy most certainly would, precisely because she's one of those delusional moderates like Biden who are still living in a surreal alternate 90s reality where the Republicans can be persuaded and negotiated with in good faith, and where, even after Sanders' election, the desires of plutocrats and oligarch donors like Bloomberg reign supreme over constituents. C'mon man, you've saw what happened just as I did with Obama where he had the public option within his grasp and he literally never even _tried_ to confront or persuade Joe Lieberman who singlehandedly prevented it; do you really imagine that Amy is any better? Sanders will fight for the whole cake, and like Obama, Amy will ask for half (at best!) and be happy with crumbs.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Actually, that is what Bernie is now doing.
Medicare was intended to be for all. Initially launched it covered the elderly
Bernie wants to change that so that everyone can enjoy Medicare
He also wants to make it better by adding dental, eye, and home care coverage
Based on what he has presented it appears there will be no premiums or need for supplemental insurance to pay medical expenses
So, your wish has been granted, Bernie is proposing to improve the existing Medicare program such that it becomes an effective Medicare program for all

Both Sanders AND Warren have been repeatedly asked "what about if people don't want to lose their choices?"
This is hilarious because since when you do get a choice right now?
A small sliver of VERY well off people get a wide range of choices when covered by current private sector insurance, but most people get told they can choose between one, two or maybe three doctors, and a couple of hospitals.
Everyone else is "out of network".
Not really much of a choice.
They also get told what drugs are covered and which aren't, and in the end, even if they're paying for 24 kt Cadillac policies, they sometimes STILL get denied important or even life-saving procedures anyway.
It's happening right now as you read this and it's been happening.

So the real question is, do you like your doctor and do you like your hospital, or do you like your insurance company?
I seriously doubt you will find more than a handful of people who will say that they love their insurance company.
"Oh I love CIGNA...I love Aetna, I love United Health."

No, people like their doctor, they like the clinic and the hospital they go to.
A single payer system isn't going to take away your doctor or your hospital, because the whole point is, there won't BE anymore
"in network/out of network" nonsense anymore...you go to whatever doctor or hospital you want.
The whole reason Obama wound up making a mistake in judgment over "If you like your doctor you can keep them" is BECAUSE the insurance industry screwed that whole aspect of the ACA up.
That's what happens when a "moderate" Democrat with good intentions tries to work with Republicans.

And for the very wealthy who want to fork over for private practice, I GUARANTEE you that will still be available, just like private schools still existed even after the debut of public school systems.

 

[iguanaman]

Both Sanders AND Warren have been repeatedly asked "what about if people don't want to lose their choices?"
This is hilarious because since when you do get a choice right now?
A small sliver of VERY well off people get a wide range of choices when covered by current private sector insurance, but most people get told they can choose between one, two or maybe three doctors, and a couple of hospitals.
Everyone else is "out of network".
Not really much of a choice.
They also get told what drugs are covered and which aren't, and in the end, even if they're paying for 24 kt Cadillac policies, they sometimes STILL get denied important or even life-saving procedures anyway.
It's happening right now as you read this and it's been happening.

So the real question is, do you like your doctor and do you like your hospital, or do you like your insurance company?
I seriously doubt you will find more than a handful of people who will say that they love their insurance company.
"Oh I love CIGNA...I love Aetna, I love United Health."

No, people like their doctor, they like the clinic and the hospital they go to.
A single payer system isn't going to take away your doctor or your hospital, because the whole point is, there won't BE anymore
"in network/out of network" nonsense anymore...you go to whatever doctor or hospital you want.
The whole reason Obama wound up making a mistake in judgment over "If you like your doctor you can keep them" is BECAUSE the insurance industry screwed that whole aspect of the ACA up.
That's what happens when a "moderate" Democrat with good intentions tries to work with Republicans.

And for the very wealthy who want to fork over for private practice, I GUARANTEE you that will still be available, just like private schools still existed even after the debut of public school systems.

You are forgetting that the vast majority of voters with employer paid HC like their policies mostly because not that many have ever needed to use it. You can tell them all day how bad they are but it is theirs and a perk they do not want to lose and be thrown in with all the "deadbeats" that had no policy. That is the reality and Sanders is giving Trump a Healthcare plan to tout...it is the one the voters already know and like. Do we really want to give Trump a leg up in the election? For what? The MFA plan is dead in the water in Congress, not to mention all of the candidates will sign anything the Dems can get thru Congress anyway. Can we please concentrate on ridding ourselves of the cancer before we worry about where we are going to retire? Trump believes that he can beat Sanders the easiest and I don't like giving him what he wants. He's a sneaky bastard with evil connections and should not be underestimated.

 

[Linc]

You are forgetting that the vast majority of voters with employer paid HC like their policies mostly because not that many have ever needed to use it. You can tell them all day how bad they are but it is theirs and a perk they do not want to lose and be thrown in with all the "deadbeats" that had no policy. That is the reality and Sanders is giving Trump a Healthcare plan to tout...it is the one the voters already know and like. Do we really want to give Trump a leg up in the election? For what? The MFA plan is dead in the water in Congress, not to mention all of the candidates will sign anything the Dems can get thru Congress anyway. Can we please concentrate on ridding ourselves of the cancer before we worry about where we are going to retire? Trump believes that he can beat Sanders the easiest and I don't like giving him what he wants. He's a sneaky bastard with evil connections and should not be underestimated.

trump’s rally in AZ Wednesday night; his rally in CO Thursday night; his rally in Vegas Friday night before the caucuses Saturday; we are so ****ed — the GOP will gain Senate seats, flip the House, win every governor’s race next year, and lock in state legislatures and Gerrymandering for another decade with sanders

 

[Hawkeye10]

trump’s rally in AZ Wednesday night; his rally in CO Thursday night; his rally in Vegas Friday night before the caucuses Saturday; we are so ****ed —

That's long been my argument.

 

[Linc]

That's long been my argument.

You’ll like the edit more.

 

[Hawkeye10]

You’ll like the edit more.

So we disagree on the particulars, but we both agree that the American people need to wake the **** up, and that we get to decide...the American people must do better...the American people have failed...right?

 

[GreatNews2night]

He's the 'front runner' in white caucus states. Anything's possible, lets see how he does in more divers states. The Nevada election might be a good indicator

Well, the Nevada caucus with Bernie's landslide victory was indeed a good indicator.

 

[GreatNews2night]

I think it is rather interesting that you and all the Sanders supporters listed below on your OP are avoided my posts.

Posts 352 and 353.

Oh poor thing, you're getting ignored? Here, have a pacifier and go to your safe space.

 

[GreatNews2night]

OK, so that would instantly increase demand for preventive, wellness and/or diagnostic physical/mental health care but do nothing to increase the supply of it. Who among us would not seek to have any ache, pain, discomfort, anxiety, lump, bump, wart or bruise or simple curiosity about a perceived physical/mental "condition" professionally evaluated, scanned or tested for (and treated) if it was absolutely free?

This is true. I can't argue against that.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Both Sanders AND Warren have been repeatedly asked "what about if people don't want to lose their choices?"
This is hilarious because since when you do get a choice right now?
A small sliver of VERY well off people get a wide range of choices when covered by current private sector insurance, but most people get told they can choose between one, two or maybe three doctors, and a couple of hospitals.
Everyone else is "out of network".
Not really much of a choice.
They also get told what drugs are covered and which aren't, and in the end, even if they're paying for 24 kt Cadillac policies, they sometimes STILL get denied important or even life-saving procedures anyway.
It's happening right now as you read this and it's been happening.

So the real question is, do you like your doctor and do you like your hospital, or do you like your insurance company?
I seriously doubt you will find more than a handful of people who will say that they love their insurance company.
"Oh I love CIGNA...I love Aetna, I love United Health."

No, people like their doctor, they like the clinic and the hospital they go to.
A single payer system isn't going to take away your doctor or your hospital, because the whole point is, there won't BE anymore
"in network/out of network" nonsense anymore...you go to whatever doctor or hospital you want.
The whole reason Obama wound up making a mistake in judgment over "If you like your doctor you can keep them" is BECAUSE the insurance industry screwed that whole aspect of the ACA up.
That's what happens when a "moderate" Democrat with good intentions tries to work with Republicans.

And for the very wealthy who want to fork over for private practice, I GUARANTEE you that will still be available, just like private schools still existed even after the debut of public school systems.

Exactly. People don't realize that their doctors, clinics, and hospitals aren't going anywhere, just the PAYER would be changing, so the idea that "I will lose my health care plan" is laughable.

I hope Bernie does a better job at explaining this to people so that some of them stop freaking out. Obama never explained the ACA well. I hope Bernie doesn't repeat the mistake.

 

[GreatNews2night]

trump’s rally in AZ Wednesday night; his rally in CO Thursday night; his rally in Vegas Friday night before the caucuses Saturday; we are so ****ed — the GOP will gain Senate seats, flip the House, win every governor’s race next year, and lock in state legislatures and Gerrymandering for another decade with sanders

Your pessimism is touching. Just the right attitude we need to beat Trump in November. [insert sarcasm here]

 

[SoCal]

Well, the Nevada caucus with Bernie's landslide victory was indeed a good indicator.

No one can deny Sanders is the current front runner, but lets see how things stack up on Saturday night and Sunday. I need to proof read my posts more carfully...

Exactly. People don't realize that their doctors, clinics, and hospitals aren't going anywhere, just the PAYER would be changing, so the idea that "I will lose my health care plan" is laughable.

I hope Bernie does a better job at explaining this to people so that some of them stop freaking out. Obama never explained the ACA well. I hope Bernie doesn't repeat the mistake.

I think Sanders is doing ok at explaining his proposal. It's the talking heads that need to do a better job. That and needing an electorate intelligent enough to comprehend and understand the overall benefits. I wouldn't hold your breath...

 

[GreatNews2night]

No one can deny Sanders is the current front runner, but lets see how things stack up on Saturday night and Sunday. I need to proof read my posts more carfully...



I think Sanders is doing ok at explaining his proposal. It's the talking heads that need to do a better job. That and needing an electorate intelligent enough to comprehend and understand the overall benefits. I wouldn't hold your breath...

Yes, never underestimate the idiocy of the voters, especially the uneducated Trump voter. You may have heard of the infamous Facebook poster, true story, some dumb redneck who was all excited saying "Yeah, Go Trump, I don't need no stinky Obamacare, Make America Great Again, Trump!" Someone asked him - "So you don't think we Americans need better healthcare?" The idiot replied "'Course not, like I said I don't need no stinky Obamacare, I got this great health plan from this thing called Affordable Care Act, they have this website where you can pick a neat plan for you."