How the Trump Administration Inflicts Misery on the Iranian People

[Nickyjo]

Well, I kid you not...until you brought it up, I simply had no idea the stark, hugely vast difference between horse **** and dog ****.

Yano?

As I clearly stated, we were not perfect, just under our strong influence and protection, much much much much less misery, death and destruction.

K vs M... again, Yano?

The numbers vary as, with the exception of the Nazis, not much methodical record keeping on the evils they were perpetrating done by the perps themselves.

National Socialists/fascists of Germany murder in concentration and POW death camps upwards of 12M [12 million], not to mention the super destructive war they and the Fascist Italians and Imperialist Japanese started in which upwards of 60M died... those numbers in and of themselves dwarf all your numbers put together... but hold on now, as Karen Carpenter might sing...

We have only just begun.

We also have Pol Pot with his Cambodian Killing Fields 1.7-2.5 M. Then you have Joe Stalin, we won't even add the communist leaders before and after him in the USSR, only to be outdone by Mao in the PRC upwards of 77M. Those numbers just account for those particular leaders. There was evil done before, for instance, Lenin, Brezhnev et a after in the USSR.

And that doesn't even cover the lists of others, nor does it take into consideration the destruction or misery to others who might have lived but were tortured, maimed, harmed psychologically.

The US singlehandedly kept WWII and the mass million range killings of the communists to over there, pretty much kept the misery, death and destruction from ever laying a finger on this hemisphere. Before that the Monroe Doctrine, along with the Roosevelt Corollary behind and emphasizing it, kept many of these destructive nations from establishing beachheads on the hemisphere after we felt strong enough to declare it to the rest of the world.

Here are several sources that overlap, but peruse them and see it the horse and dog excrement are even close to the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Top Ten Most Evil Dictators of All Time (in order of kill count) – Popten

https://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...mass-murderer-his-due/?utm_term=.0d7cb9b3b7b0

What does your comment have to do with mine? I was simply pointing out that the Soviet empire and the US empire both brutally controled countries in their regions, invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

What does your comment have to do with mine? I was simply pointing out that the Soviet empire and the US empire both brutally controled countries in their regions, invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments.

What you have to remember that "THEY" brutally controlled countries in their regions by invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments is NOT THE SAME as when "WE" brutally controlled countries in their regions by invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments because

That's DIFFERENT!!!​

PS - The Russian position is the same (it's just that the Russians use different definitions of "THEY" and "WE".)

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

What does your comment have to do with mine? I was simply pointing out that the Soviet empire and the US empire both brutally controled countries in their regions, invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments.

You see, I am plainly stating, much as I did before

There simply IS NO COMPARISON.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

What you have to remember that "THEY" brutally controlled countries in their regions by invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments is NOT THE SAME as when "WE" brutally controlled countries in their regions by invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments because

That's DIFFERENT!!!​

PS - The Russian position is the same (it's just that the Russians use different definitions of "THEY" and "WE".)

YUP, very definitely.

By scale, aims and results... much much different. Well, at least to thinking people. Where do you stand on the issue again?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

YUP, very definitely.

By scale, aims and results... much much different. Well, at least to thinking people. Where do you stand on the issue again?

I'm opposed to one country overthrowing the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country - regardless of whether that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" or in the name of "communist freedom".

As I understand it, your position is that it is quite OK for one (and ONLY one) country (that country being the United States of America) to overthrow the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country as long as that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" - BUT in no other case is it acceptable.

 

[Nickyjo]

What you have to remember that "THEY" brutally controlled countries in their regions by invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments is NOT THE SAME as when "WE" brutally controlled countries in their regions by invading, supporting dictatorships, and overthrowing governments because

That's DIFFERENT!!!​

PS - The Russian position is the same (it's just that the Russians use different definitions of "THEY" and "WE".)

Right. I forgot, our **** doesn't stink. Still and all, there was greater hope on our side.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Right. I forgot, our **** doesn't stink. Still and all, there was greater hope on our side.

Strangely enough all three of Christianity, Capitalism, and Communism - if applied in accordance with their actual basic tenets end up working out pretty much the same as far as the vast majority of the people are concerned.

It's too bad that no one has ever actually tried it with any of them.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I'm opposed to one country overthrowing the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country - regardless of whether that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" or in the name of "communist freedom".

As I understand it, your position is that it is quite OK for one (and ONLY one) country (that country being the United States of America) to overthrow the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country as long as that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" - BUT in no other case is it acceptable.

Isn' t that what the earliest current Canadians did to the indigenous peoples in the lands that are now Canada?

Give it back man, its the only honorable thing... flee back to Europe, they could probably use your help as refugees flood in to destroy the culture there.

Let the country without sin throw the first stone... you are sitting in a glass house, bro, protected by that which you hate but that which you owe much. Yano? No, you are completely lost in hostile ingratitude.

As you understand it? You fail to understand much of anything. First, I do not accept, in fact, reject every part of your very faulty and insipidly stupid premise. You were allowed to do it on your own terra firma, as were other current nations worldwide. Didn't you folks fight in WW1 and WW2? Why didn't you folks just stay the hell out of it and let whatever was going to happen, Holocaust and all, just happen?

But instead your folks fought to dominate Germany, did you not? What authorizes you to do any such thing...???

Why, under your stupid framing of history, should your capitialist democratic system have dominated Fascist Germany, eh?

 

[Nickyjo]

Strangely enough all three of Christianity, Capitalism, and Communism - if applied in accordance with their actual basic tenets end up working out pretty much the same as far as the vast majority of the people are concerned.

It's too bad that no one has ever actually tried it with any of them.

The big three you mention all had their flaws. One way said that “mankind was inoculated with just enough Christianity to make it immune to the real thing.” As to the other two, both seem in their pure form to have a naive view of humanity.

 

[PTF]

Missed the connection between "The American Conservative" and "right-wing" - didn't you?

Not at all.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I'm opposed to one country overthrowing the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country - regardless of whether that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" or in the name of "communist freedom".

As I understand it, your position is that it is quite OK for one (and ONLY one) country (that country being the United States of America) to overthrow the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country as long as that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" - BUT in no other case is it acceptable.

To which I replied:

Isn' t that what the earliest current Canadians did to the indigenous peoples in the lands that are now Canada?

Give it back man, its the only honorable thing... flee back to Europe, they could probably use your help as refugees flood in to destroy the culture there.

Let the country without sin throw the first stone... you are sitting in a glass house, bro, protected by that which you hate but that which you owe much. Yano? No, you are completely lost in hostile ingratitude.

As you understand it? You fail to understand much of anything. First, I do not accept, in fact, reject every part of your very faulty and insipidly stupid premise. You were allowed to do it on your own terra firma, as were other current nations worldwide. Didn't you folks fight in WW1 and WW2? Why didn't you folks just stay the hell out of it and let whatever was going to happen, Holocaust and all, just happen?

But instead your folks fought to dominate Germany, did you not? What authorizes you to do any such thing...???

Why, under your stupid framing of history, should your capitalist democratic system have dominated Fascist Germany, eh?

Never heard back from you, bro...

Completely stumped are ya... find out if you blame the "bad guys" that yours are numbered amongst those needing to be blamed? Hilarious.

And in the meantime, your nation's contributions in every category, major of which to world peace and overcoming the really bad folks is, well, rather a weak, feeble history...

Lesson learned, or that should be learned: the world is not such an easy, cut and dried place from which to negotiate. Some avenues taken, while imperfect, are just far far superior to others. There is NO perfect government, there is NO perfect state, NO perfect history.

Those who slink behind the weak and feeble nations which have done little, if comparatively anything, to push humanity into progress like the planet has never ever seen and could hardly even have been imagined a hundred years ago...and who instead criticise from their protected place, especially protected by that which they try to denigrate, have no real clue as to the history or the lessons of history.

That be you, bro.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I'm opposed to one country overthrowing the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country - regardless of whether that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" or in the name of "communist freedom".

As I understand it, your position is that it is quite OK for one (and ONLY one) country (that country being the United States of America) to overthrow the government of another country in order to establish a harsh, venal, corrupt, murderous, undemocratic, regime on another country as long as that is done in the name of "capitalist freedom" - BUT in no other case is it acceptable.

To which I replied:

Isn' t that what the earliest current Canadians did to the indigenous peoples in the lands that are now Canada?

Give it back man, its the only honorable thing... flee back to Europe, they could probably use your help as refugees flood in to destroy the culture there.

Let the country without sin throw the first stone... you are sitting in a glass house, bro, protected by that which you hate but that which you owe much. Yano? No, you are completely lost in hostile ingratitude.

As you understand it? You fail to understand much of anything. First, I do not accept, in fact, reject every part of your very faulty and insipidly stupid premise. You were allowed to do it on your own terra firma, as were other current nations worldwide. Didn't you folks fight in WW1 and WW2? Why didn't you folks just stay the hell out of it and let whatever was going to happen, Holocaust and all, just happen?

But instead your folks fought to dominate Germany, did you not? What authorizes you to do any such thing...???

Why, under your stupid framing of history, should your capitalist democratic system have dominated Fascist Germany, eh?

Never heard back from you, bro...

Completely stumped are ya... find out if you blame the "bad guys" that yours are numbered amongst those needing to be blamed? Hilarious.

And in the meantime, your nation's contributions in every category, major of which to world peace and overcoming the really bad folks is, well, rather a weak, feeble history...

Lesson learned, or that should be learned: the world is not such an easy, cut and dried place from which to negotiate. Some avenues taken, while imperfect, are just far far superior to others. There is NO perfect government, there is NO perfect state, NO perfect history.

Those who slink behind the weak and feeble nations which have done little, if comparatively anything, to push humanity into progress like the planet has never ever seen and could hardly even have been imagined a hundred years ago...and who instead criticize from their protected place, especially protected by that which they try to denigrate, have no real clue as to the history or the lessons of history.

That be you, bro.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Isn' t that what the earliest current Canadians did to the indigenous peoples in the lands that are now Canada?

Indeed it is. It's also what the earliest current Americans did to the indigenous peoples in the lands that are now the United States of America.

By the lights of civilization as it existed then, their acts were proper.

Fortunately we are no longer living in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, or 19th Centuries and we no longer hold the view that "People who ARE NOT __[fill in the blank]__ are rightfully to be subjected to the will of people who ARE __[fill in the blank]__." - at least I don't.

Do you?

Give it back man, its the only honorable thing... flee back to Europe, they could probably use your help as refugees flood in to destroy the culture there.

I'm quite willing to do that - as soon as the Americans are prepared to do the same thing.

What is past is past and simply cannot be undone. What we have to do is to prevent it happening again.

Let the country without sin throw the first stone... you are sitting in a glass house, bro, protected by that which you hate but that which you owe much. Yano? No, you are completely lost in hostile ingratitude.

How about "Let those who recognize the inappropriateness of past actions not repeat them."?

As you understand it? You fail to understand much of anything. First, I do not accept, in fact, reject every part of your very faulty and insipidly stupid premise. You were allowed to do it on your own terra firma, as were other current nations worldwide. Didn't you folks fight in WW1 and WW2? Why didn't you folks just stay the hell out of it and let whatever was going to happen, Holocaust and all, just happen?

Because the Canadian people and government recognized the injustice and inappropriateness of what was happening in 1914 and 1939 - just as the American people and government did in 1917 and 1941.

But instead your folks fought to dominate Germany, did you not? What authorizes you to do any such thing...???

I guess that you could see "assisting people of other countries in repelling German invaders" as "dominating Germany" if you were really stupid.

Why, under your stupid framing of history, should your capitialist democratic system have dominated Fascist Germany, eh?

Possibly because Canada saw the justice in assisting other countries in preventing Imperial and/or Fascist Germany from dominating them by force.

BTW, you did notice, that (once WWII was over) the Canadian forces did NOT occupy any portion of Germany in order to impose the government that the Canadian government insisted that Germany have - didn't you?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The big three you mention all had their flaws. One way said that “mankind was inoculated with just enough Christianity to make it immune to the real thing.” As to the other two, both seem in their pure form to have a naive view of humanity.

Agreed to the first.

I think that the "naive view" actually applies to all three.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

To which I replied:




Never heard back from you, bro...

Completely stumped are ya...

I limit the amount of time I spend on the Internet.

Sometimes that means that I don't sit with baited breath for you to drool out your pearls of - whatever.

Live with it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

To which I replied:




Never heard back from you, bro...

Completely stumped are ya... find out if you blame the "bad guys" that yours are numbered amongst those needing to be blamed? Hilarious.

And in the meantime, your nation's contributions in every category, major of which to world peace and overcoming the really bad folks is, well, rather a weak, feeble history...

Lesson learned, or that should be learned: the world is not such an easy, cut and dried place from which to negotiate. Some avenues taken, while imperfect, are just far far superior to others. There is NO perfect government, there is NO perfect state, NO perfect history.

Those who slink behind the weak and feeble nations which have done little, if comparatively anything, to push humanity into progress like the planet has never ever seen and could hardly even have been imagined a hundred years ago...and who instead criticize from their protected place, especially protected by that which they try to denigrate, have no real clue as to the history or the lessons of history.

That be you, bro.

Thanks for posting the same dreck twice.

That, obviously makes it twice as true.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Indeed it is. It's also what the earliest current Americans did to the indigenous peoples in the lands that are now the United States of America.

By the lights of civilization as it existed then, their acts were proper.

Fortunately we are no longer living in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, or 19th Centuries and we no longer hold the view that "People who ARE NOT __[fill in the blank]__ are rightfully to be subjected to the will of people who ARE __[fill in the blank]__." - at least I don't.

Do you?



I'm quite willing to do that - as soon as the Americans are prepared to do the same thing.

What is past is past and simply cannot be undone. What we have to do is to prevent it happening again.



How about "Let those who recognize the inappropriateness of past actions not repeat them."?



Because the Canadian people and government recognized the injustice and inappropriateness of what was happening in 1914 and 1939 - just as the American people and government did in 1917 and 1941.



I guess that you could see "assisting people of other countries in repelling German invaders" as "dominating Germany" if you were really stupid.



Possibly because Canada saw the justice in assisting other countries in preventing Imperial and/or Fascist Germany from dominating them by force.

BTW, you did notice, that (once WWII was over) the Canadian forces did NOT occupy any portion of Germany in order to impose the government that the Canadian government insisted that Germany have - didn't you?

Wow, thats quite a rationalization you got going there. Probably could hook up with some concentration camp guards and make them feel better about themselves with that heavily perfumed load.

Butt that a proctologist was that smooth in his digging for gold.

You are the one griping man, not us. We understand reality, the past and a very predatory world in which we still live. You live in a dreamland isolated spot with protection. Protection provided the OOOooooOOOooooh so evil number one rated most powerful capitalist democracy in planetary history. You keep conveniently ignoring that. And if we were even one-tenth as bad as you make us out, your country would not exist, it would be a part of the US of A.

You lefties are all the same, "you first" altruists, altruists in name only.

Yeah, if we start first? Pffffttttt... What rank hypocrisy. Your country doesn't stop anything from happening, its just sits there like a bump on a rotten log most the time, lets MY country do all the heavy lifting, we take the mantle of having the target on our backs, not you Canadians...your country doesn't pay the majority of the bills but does then have the luxury to suck its thumb, gazes at its navel and complain that not all is perfect in the world.

Go back to sleep man, you are dreaming anyhow.

Oh yeah, Canadian government in 1914? You were a part of British Empire then, like she was without sin. Does an "empire", if its British, just get a pass does it? Are you even kidding me?

Oh, got the rationalization kicked into high gear today, do ya? It was a war, WW1, none of those initiating it was free from blame... Germany lost is all, we, Wilson to his lasting damnation, got involved in a war we should never ever have. That was a fault, yes.

:lamo So Canada saw this justice? Were any civilians killed by Canadians, or any of the allies in WW1 and WW2? That is justice? What did they ever do to you? Shame shame, your country is not without sin, and yet you cast so many of this deliciously stupid stones.

To hell you folks didn't, you were a full-fledged partner in the UK Commonwealth, and Britain most certainly did occupy Germany along with Russia, France and the US. That you even then didn't shoulder your fair share of the burden of the peace just goes to show how ineffective Canada was/is and continues to be on the world stage.

Thank us.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I limit the amount of time I spend on the Internet.

Sometimes that means that I don't sit with baited breath for you to drool out your pearls of - whatever.

Live with it.

You didn't, still don't, have any even decent answers and you know it... so you avoided until I call you out on it...again.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Thanks for posting the same dreck twice.

That, obviously makes it twice as true.

Internet in the mountains down here makes it difficult at times and there are snafus. Nah, 100% true fits my needs, I am not greedy.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Wow, thats quite a rationalization you got going there. Probably could hook up with some concentration camp guards and make them feel better about themselves with that heavily perfumed load.

Butt that a proctologist was that smooth in his digging for gold.

You are the one griping man, not us. We understand reality, the past and a very predatory world in which we still live. You live in a dreamland isolated spot with protection. Protection provided the OOOooooOOOooooh so evil number one rated most powerful capitalist democracy in planetary history. You keep conveniently ignoring that. And if we were even one-tenth as bad as you make us out, your country would not exist, it would be a part of the US of A.

You lefties are all the same, "you first" altruists, altruists in name only.

Yeah, if we start first? Pffffttttt... What rank hypocrisy. Your country doesn't stop anything from happening, its just sits there like a bump on a rotten log most the time, lets MY country do all the heavy lifting, we take the mantle of having the target on our backs, not you Canadians...your country doesn't pay the majority of the bills but does then have the luxury to suck its thumb, gazes at its navel and complain that not all is perfect in the world.

Go back to sleep man, you are dreaming anyhow.

Oh yeah, Canadian government in 1914? You were a part of British Empire then, like she was without sin. Does an "empire", if its British, just get a pass does it? Are you even kidding me?

Oh, got the rationalization kicked into high gear today, do ya? It was a war, WW1, none of those initiating it was free from blame... Germany lost is all, we, Wilson to his lasting damnation, got involved in a war we should never ever have. That was a fault, yes.

:lamo So Canada saw this justice? Were any civilians killed by Canadians, or any of the allies in WW1 and WW2? That is justice? What did they ever do to you? Shame shame, your country is not without sin, and yet you cast so many of this deliciously stupid stones.

To hell you folks didn't, you were a full-fledged partner in the UK Commonwealth, and Britain most certainly did occupy Germany along with Russia, France and the US. That you even then didn't shoulder your fair share of the burden of the peace just goes to show how ineffective Canada was/is and continues to be on the world stage.

Thank us.

Thank you for your enlightened world view.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You didn't, still don't, have any even decent answers and you know it... so you avoided until I call you out on it...again.

You might not have noticed it, but I provided my answer to your post BEFORE I read your "calling out", but - have it your way if it will make you feel any better.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Did you know that Uranium One did not have a permit to EXPORT even a gram of Uranium to Russia?

Did you know that Rosatom sold off all of the assets previously owned by Uranium One that were located in the United States of America and only retained the much more valuable Uranium deposits in Kazakhstan?

Did you know that what Roxatom wanted when it purchased the Canadian company that owned both American and Kazakhstan assets was the Kazakhstan assets?

Did you know that the US government does not have the legislative competence to prevent a non-American company from purchasing non-American assets from another non-American company?

Did you know that the US imports around 90% of the Uranium it uses every year? Isn't that fact distressing to you? Shouldn't Mr. Trump declare that the reliance on imported Uranium is "harmful to America's national security interests" and impose whacking great duties on those foreign producers who are exploiting the United States of America by selling their Uranium on the open market and thereby forcing American Uranium mines and processing facilities to shut down?

The Uranium One nonsense is another "Right Wing Lie That Will Never Die".
Right wingnuts cannot accept the fact that they are telling a lie, a great big fat Big Lie.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Thank you for your enlightened world view.

Somebody has to do it...I do it as a public service, educating the huddled masses and so on and so forth... yano.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

You might not have noticed it, but I provided my answer to your post BEFORE I read your "calling out", but - have it your way if it will make you feel any better.

No... actually you didn't.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

The Uranium One nonsense is another "Right Wing Lie That Will Never Die".
Right wingnuts cannot accept the fact that they are telling a lie, a great big fat Big Lie.

Keep telling yourself that...and this from the folks that have given the nation the witch hunt known as the Russian Hoax.

Such delicious irony.:lamo