How Serious Is This? Consider What The FBI Would Do To Us

[braindrain]

Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/

Cool. You found a bigger liar.

Why does that somehow make you want to believe a different liar.

I know you can’t comprehend this but just because someone says bad things about trump does not make them a good person or honest.

That you have to try and use trump to defend this guy isn’t helping your case.

 

[Geoist]

Cool. You found a bigger liar.

Why does that somehow make you want to believe a different liar.

I know you can’t comprehend this but just because someone says bad things about trump does not make them a good person or honest.

That you have to try and use trump to defend this guy isn’t helping your case.

Having a long track record of lying makes one a liar. Trump is a liar. Beau just lied at some point in his life, like all of us.

 

[braindrain]

Having a long track record of lying makes one a liar. Trump is a liar. Beau just lied at some point in his life, like all of us.

Yes trump is a liar. It’s why I don’t believe a single thing he says.

Beau hasn’t just lied at some point in his life. He continues his lie. See his bs story about why he went to jail. And his claim it was because of his military contract work.

But I get it. Because this guy says bad things about trump you have to defend him no matter what.

 

[Geoist]

There is a giant difference between handling someone with kid gloves and torture and murder like you claimed would happen.
Sorry if the truth hurts your little narrative.

Are you saying agents of the state haven't kidnapped and tortured/murdered people? Hell, the FBI did it out in the open with Fred Hampton.

But just being able to point to a bigger pos does not make me want to care about the opinions of a liar and criminal.
You do you though.

Many people of history we revere were 'criminals', from the Founding Fathers to MLK and beyond.

Once again, an incident of lying doesn't make one a liar. A long track record of lying makes you a liar, hence the reference to Trump.

 

[Geoist]

Yes trump is a liar. It’s why I don’t believe a single thing he says.

Beau hasn’t just lied at some point in his life. He continues his lie. See his bs story about why he went to jail. And his claim it was because of his military contract work.

But I get it. Because this guy says bad things about trump you have to defend him no matter what.

You need to start posting links to your claims. Don't know why that is such a difficult thing for conservatives to do.

 

[US&THEM]

Not any more, that is correct. If he was at the time that he took these documents, however, then he had the authority to do so.

Not entirely true and be honest Trump could care less about how to legally obtain or initiate any process.

 

[cpwill]

Not entirely true and be honest Trump could care less about how to legally obtain or initiate any process.

Agreed that Trump couldn't care less, however, yes, it is true he had the authority to do so.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

There is indeed a process for declassification that is laid out. That process - like the classification process - flows from Presidential Authority. An OCA does not have to use it if they choose not to for information they control, and POTUS is the ultimate OCA, since all OCA authority is derivative from his or hers.

POTUS can, in fact, unilaterally declare something declassified and make it so.

No, he can't. You've been shown this a couple times now.

There are allegations that nuclear information is among the documents in question. Should that actually be the case (notice that my comment leaves room for the possibility that DOJ and the FBI screwed the pooch on this, though with a judge signing off on the warrant, it's a tad less likely to be the case), then what you said above is just flat out incorrect. There is a fairly detailed process for dealing with that, and no, even the President can't just handwave his was around it.

He may be able to do so with something like NASA photos and Area 51 shit, but that doesn't work for everything.

 

[iguanaman]

Agreed that Trump couldn't care less, however, yes, it is true he had the authority to do so.

None of the charges on the warrant have ANYTHING to do with classifications of documents so why are you even trying to make this point? Garland went right over your head and you haven't even figured that out yet.

 

[US&THEM]

Agreed that Trump couldn't care less, however, yes, it is true he had the authority to do so.

But there’s the rub process matters

 

[cpwill]

No, he can't.

He can, as he is the authority by which it was classified (and by which it gets declassified) in the first place.

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

There are allegations that nuclear information is among the documents in question. Should that actually be the case (notice that my comment leaves room for the possibility that DOJ and the FBI screwed the pooch on this, though with a judge signing off on the warrant, it's a tad less likely to be the case), then what you said above is just flat out incorrect.

I have seen this claim made several times based on an Atlantic Opinion piece pointing to the fact that the relevant statute for Restricted Data lays out that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission had oversight of it, just as, for example, the NSA has oversight of SIGINT, CIA has oversight of HUMINT, the JCS has oversight of ACCMs, etc.

I found that interesting enough to go look up the Nuclear Regulatory Commissions' declassification process - and turns out, it flows from the exact same Presidential Authority as does other classification, which makes sense, given that the same statute reference is mingling discussion of nuclear data with defense data (as there is obviously overlap).

What's their declassification authority? Well, according to them, it's POTUS.

NRC's Declassification Program

www.nrc.gov

The NRC's Declassification Process

Executive Order 13256 prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information. (As such, this new Order replaces Executive Order 12958, which President Clinton issued in 1995 and President Bush subsequently amended in 2003.) As specified in the Executive Order, when information is originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret), an original classification authority must establish a specific date or event for declassification based on the duration of the national security sensitivity of the information. Moreover, Section 3.1 of the Executive Order requires information to be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification.

Under the NRC's Declassification Program, all classified documents are reviewed for automatic declassification not later than 25 years from the date of the document. Classification determinations are based upon classification guides developed by the U.S. Government. Information may only be declassified by (1) the official who authorized the original classification, (2) a supervisory official (or successor) of the originating classification authority, or (3) agency subject matter experts who have been delegated declassification authority in writing by the NRC. Information that continues to meet the classification requirements of the Executive Order warrants continued protection. Thus, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Executive Order, NRC senior officials may exempt from automatic declassification certain specific classified information.​

 

[cpwill]

But there’s the rub process matters

Process is important. OCA's have the authority to go outside it or reshape it or ignore it with information they control.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

He can, as he is the authority by which it was classified (and by which it gets declassified) in the first place.

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

I have seen this claim made several times based on an Atlantic Opinion piece pointing to the fact that the relevant statute for Restricted Data lays out that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission had oversight of it, just as, for example, the NSA has oversight of SIGINT, CIA has oversight of HUMINT, the JCS has oversight of ACCMs, etc.

I found that interesting enough to go look up the Nuclear Regulatory Commissions' declassification process - and turns out, it flows from the exact same Presidential Authority as does other classification, which makes sense, given that the same statute reference is mingling discussion of nuclear data with defense data (as there is obviously overlap).

What's their declassification authority? Well, according to them, it's POTUS.

NRC's Declassification Program

www.nrc.gov

The NRC's Declassification Process​

​

Executive Order 13256 prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information. (As such, this new Order replaces Executive Order 12958, which President Clinton issued in 1995 and President Bush subsequently amended in 2003.) As specified in the Executive Order, when information is originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret), an original classification authority must establish a specific date or event for declassification based on the duration of the national security sensitivity of the information. Moreover, Section 3.1 of the Executive Order requires information to be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification.​

​

Under the NRC's Declassification Program, all classified documents are reviewed for automatic declassification not later than 25 years from the date of the document. Classification determinations are based upon classification guides developed by the U.S. Government. Information may only be declassified by (1) the official who authorized the original classification, (2) a supervisory official (or successor) of the originating classification authority, or (3) agency subject matter experts who have been delegated declassification authority in writing by the NRC. Information that continues to meet the classification requirements of the Executive Order warrants continued protection. Thus, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Executive Order, NRC senior officials may exempt from automatic declassification certain specific classified information.​

Which, ironically, exempts the President from such procedures.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

He can, as he is the authority by which it was classified (and by which it gets declassified) in the first place.

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

I have seen this claim made several times based on an Atlantic Opinion piece pointing to the fact that the relevant statute for Restricted Data lays out that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission had oversight of it, just as, for example, the NSA has oversight of SIGINT, CIA has oversight of HUMINT, the JCS has oversight of ACCMs, etc.

I found that interesting enough to go look up the Nuclear Regulatory Commissions' declassification process - and turns out, it flows from the exact same Presidential Authority as does other classification, which makes sense, given that the same statute reference is mingling discussion of nuclear data with defense data (as there is obviously overlap).

What's their declassification authority? Well, according to them, it's POTUS.

NRC's Declassification Program

www.nrc.gov

The NRC's Declassification Process​

​

Executive Order 13256 prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information. (As such, this new Order replaces Executive Order 12958, which President Clinton issued in 1995 and President Bush subsequently amended in 2003.) As specified in the Executive Order, when information is originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret), an original classification authority must establish a specific date or event for declassification based on the duration of the national security sensitivity of the information. Moreover, Section 3.1 of the Executive Order requires information to be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification.​

​

Under the NRC's Declassification Program, all classified documents are reviewed for automatic declassification not later than 25 years from the date of the document. Classification determinations are based upon classification guides developed by the U.S. Government. Information may only be declassified by (1) the official who authorized the original classification, (2) a supervisory official (or successor) of the originating classification authority, or (3) agency subject matter experts who have been delegated declassification authority in writing by the NRC. Information that continues to meet the classification requirements of the Executive Order warrants continued protection. Thus, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Executive Order, NRC senior officials may exempt from automatic declassification certain specific classified information.​

Which, ironically, exempts the President from such procedures.

The authority doesn't come from POTUS, it comes from the EO in question. Thats kinda been the point this whole time. Unless Trump (or any President, for that matter) changes or nullifies the EO currently being enforced, the EO and the requirements within it are what determines whether or not something meets the criteria of being declassifiable or not....at least in the area of nuclear information. If the President wants to declassify everything going on at Groom Lake and Area 51, there is a different set of criteria that govern his ability to do so, as the NRC may or may not have anything to do with some of those projects and some of that information.

As has been asked for multiple times, where is the EO that Trump signed into being that nullified or changed his ability to declared information classified or not, at least in the area of nuclear information, since this seems to be where we have gotten hung up. If one does not exist, then its pretty clear that the EO that has been in place since 2003 would be the standing determinant of what continues to warrant needing protection.

Basically, though....nothing in the above information gives Trump or any President the ability to wave a hand and make anything he or she wants declassified, and definitely not on a whim or without process.

 

[redbeer]

Honestly, keep saying you aren't stuck in a cult hivemind while defending Dear Leader for taking top secret/nuclear documents! Absolutely sickening.

If you libs/leftists aren't subbed to Beau of the Fifth Column on YT I strongly recommend it. Short and to the point videos. He's a deep thinker and a quick wit.

Anyways, here are a few of his thoughts on the news, particularly about the Top Secret SCI-designated documents:

"[TS/SCI documents] are so secret they can only be viewed in a room specifically designed to protect secrets."

"[Some say], 'If I did this they would've already arrested me' No, if you did this you'd be in a basement somewhere being interrogated until you talked, and they would not hold anything back."

"Some say], 'I'd be looking at 10-20.' No, if you took SCI documents, had the opportunity to return them, elected not to, and went about your day probably meeting with foreign nationals, no you wouldn't be looking at 10-20. 10-20 would be what the groundskeeper tells your family when they go to visit you. Row 10, Plot 20."

"If you choose to stand beside this man politically after this, you never get to talk about supporting the troops again because you are putting them at risk. You never get to talk about wanting a strong country again, because you're weakening it. You never get to talk about how diversity training is weakening the military, because nothing weakens it more than not being able to protect its secrets."

Lol.....Trump did not take top secret nuclear documents.....they are lying to you. Trump was not committing espionage by selling off our top secrets.....they are lying to you. I know it's a total waste of time in assisting you, for you are already sold into the bullsnort, full hilt, to the extreme, lol.

It's simply more of the same...."anonymous reports", they use to get the left worked up to a frenzy. They've done this quite literally hundreds of times the last six years, yet they still fall for it, every time....incredible!

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Lol.....Trump did not take top secret nuclear documents.....they are lying to you. Trump was not committing espionage by selling off our top secrets.....they are lying to you. I know it's a total waste of time in assisting you, for you are already sold into the bullsnort, full hilt, to the extreme, lol.

It's simply more of the same...."anonymous reports", they use to get the left worked up to a frenzy. They've done this quite literally hundreds of times the last six years, yet they still fall for it, every time....incredible!

Give us a break. They could be perp walking him out of MAL with the documents they are going to use to convict him stapled to his chest like a 2nd grader with the check for the bookmobile and you would still say it was made up or untrue.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

The authority doesn't come from POTUS, it comes from the EO in question.

Of course the authority comes from the President or else the executive order would have no standing to begin with.

It's an absurd argument that the President isn't exempt to the very power he delegates down to the Federal office he gives it too.

 

[j brown's body]

Hillary wasn’t and she had same level classified docs.

Same charges?

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Of course the authority comes from the President or else the executive order would have no standing to begin with.

Think about what you said for a minute and why its wrong. Nevermind, I'll help you out.

Unless Trump signed an EO superceding the one GWB amended in 2003, then the standing order from 2003 states that the EO in question dictates what warrants continued classification. That was right there in the document cpwill posted, and he even did me the favor of bolding that part of the document no less.

That means that the authority doesn't reside inherently with the person signing the EO and instead with the EO itself, since it is pretty apparent to anyone who can read that there is indeed the possibility of the EO outliving the 2 terms of the person signing it. As was already stated, the EO states quite clearly that whatever resides within it is what determines whether or not something remains classified, but for a few exceptions.

It's an absurd argument that the President isn't exempt to the very power he delegates down to the Federal office he gives it too.

Its the same argument that keeps a President from simply naming himself king and doing away with the democracy we hold dear. He too is subject to oversight.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Same charges?

Wrong question, JBB.......you would first have to prove that they were even the same thing to begin with.

One person had information on a server in her home WHILE she was acting as SOS.

Another person had information stuffed in something just better than a pool locker that had been requested back at the end of his term more than a year and a half ago.

One makes sense, the other doesn't. I'll leave that to you do decide which is which.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Unless Trump signed an EO superceding the one GWB amended in 2003, then the standing order from 2003 states that the EO in question dictates what warrants continued classification.

No, as I explained it to another poster, the President is exempt from standing orders and does not have to rescind them to do so.

(b) Information originated by a President, the White House Staff, by committees, commissions, or boards appointed by the President, or others specifically providing advice and counsel to a President or acting on behalf of a President is exempted from the provisions of Section 3.4(a)

 

[VySky]

Same charges?

That’s the outrage. Why they weren’t brought.

 

[US&THEM]

Process is important. OCA's have the authority to go outside it or reshape it or ignore it with information they control.

Process is important. OCA's have the authority to go outside it or reshape it or ignore it with information they control.

Why have the attorney sign and state Trump has returned all documents?

 

[braindrain]

Are you saying agents of the state haven't kidnapped and tortured/murdered people? Hell, the FBI did it out in the open with Fred Hampton.



Many people of history we revere were 'criminals', from the Founding Fathers to MLK and beyond.

Once again, an incident of lying doesn't make one a liar. A long track record of lying makes you a liar, hence the reference to Trump.

One it was not the FBI that killed Hampton. Two it has nothing to do with TS information and three finding very rare cases and then pretending that is the norm is extremely dishonest.


Speaking of dishonesty trying to compare Justin King to the founding founders or MLK is pretty ridiculous.


It’s not one incident of lying. His whole made up persona is a lie and he continues to lie about his post. But you defend him because he says things you agree with.

How sad.

 

[redbeer]

Give us a break. They could be perp walking him out of MAL with the documents they are going to use to convict him stapled to his chest like a 2nd grader with the check for the bookmobile and you would still say it was made up or untrue.

How many times do you have to be fooled with "false narratives", before you wake up to their tactics? Do you enjoy wallowing around in the crap they consistently push? This too, as with all the others will be proven to be a lie, plain and simple. They got your hopes up......you think, "finally we got him", only to be let down, once again......yet, you keep falling for their lame bullsnort. It's sad to watch, in all reality.....they have fed you with hatred and don't even realize it, just pounce upon the bandwagon. Lala land is a ruse.