How Serious Is This? Consider What The FBI Would Do To Us

[cpwill]

You realize, of course, that you have expressed a process, dont you?

Yes - that was for disposition of documents.

Apparently, that process wasn't followed, and as such, no matter the document, his taking it was illegal, even if done while he was in office.

That is incorrect, not least because the government was not ending it's custody of those documents. POTUS is the ultimate authority when it comes to the handling of defense information.

The President is not authorized to take what he wants when he wants to, no matter how many times people make that claim.

He is indeed. He simply isn't allowed to keep it once he's no longer President.

 

[JasperL]

Actually it's a "stop enabling a bad actor".

I have no idea what that means. The point is if BOTH SIDES think your position is stupid, there's a good chance it's just....stupid.

If the timeline is different and he took them after he was President, then the taking would have been unlawful as well, agreed. I just haven't seen anyone establish that, and the by far most likely answer seems to be that he was POTUS at the time.

Nobody cares if it was illegal when he took them or at noon on January 20th. At noon, your distinction without a meaningful difference became moot. His possession was at that moment unlawful, and has been for the last 18 months. Before that point, call it 'theft' or conspiracy to commit theft. Same crime, same punishment. He took them intending to possess them unlawfully after he no longer had ANY authority to retain them, and did retain them, until they were seized by force from him.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

He is indeed. He simply isn't allowed to keep it once he's no longer President.

Thats what this whole thing is about, so I have to admit, I'm not sure what point it is you are trying to make here. Last time I checked, he isn't President anymore and is in possession of said documents. As I have stated previously, its not even a matter of the security status of the documents, its the fact that he has them at all that started all of this. The fact that some of the documents might still be classified is completely irrelevant to the matter. Simply having them is illegal enough.

 

[ataraxia]

I haven't watched cable news in... Gosh, 12 years, now. Try again on that one

How is that any sort of discredit of what is being said? Maybe that’s exactly the problem: you’re only watching weird news sources.

As for your source, that's not a "legal eagle", it's an Obama administration lackey, who also says flatly false things like:

"[P]art and parcel of any act of declassification is communicating that act to all others who possess the same information, across all federal agencies,"​

In fact, information is regularly downgraded or declassified for particular uses by particular actors, while remaining at higher classification for the rest of the government.

It’s not just an Obama “lackey”. No one except Fox News viewers and Trump cultists are buying this nonsense. It doesn’t even make sense. Unlike your claims (and how the Trump administration was running things), the US government is a little more sophisticated than that.

“But experts said constitutional powers authorizing a president to declassify documents don't apply to records classified as top-secret or higher, as the information contained in them is usually protected by other federal laws.”

Trump claims Mar-a-Lago documents were 'declassified.' Why experts reject that argument.

Experts said constitutional powers authorizing a president to declassify documents don't apply to records classified as top-secret or higher

www.usatoday.com

“The more difficult question is whether Trump actually took such a step. There are well-established procedures in place for declassification, none of which Trump appears to have pursued. Nor did Trump take any administrative steps to change or install exceptions to these rules. He also failed to issue any memorandum or executive order directing declassification, as he did in other cases through the very end of his presidency. Indeed, at present, Trump does not appear to have memorialized whatever declassification decision he may have made in any meaningful outside way. His own former National Security Advisor John Bolton has stated, “I was never briefed on any such order, procedure, policy when I came in [or after],” and has described Trump’s assertion that he had a standing order to declassify documents as “almost certainly a lie.”

Does It Matter What (If Anything) Trump Declassified?

No, not really.

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[ataraxia]

I haven't watched cable news in... Gosh, 12 years, now. Try again on that one

As for your source, that's not a "legal eagle", it's an Obama administration lackey, who also says flatly false things like:

"[P]art and parcel of any act of declassification is communicating that act to all others who possess the same information, across all federal agencies,"​

In fact, information is regularly downgraded or declassified for particular uses by particular actors, while remaining at higher classification for the rest of the government.

“The absence of any contemporaneous evidence of a declassification decision is a problem for Trump, whether he and his supporters acknowledge it or not…

the question of classification were ever to become an issue at trial, Trump and his associates would be hard-pressed to rebut the incumbent president’s position without some evidence that Trump took steps to meaningfully declassify the records while president. Even if Trump can show that he gave some characteristic informal or verbal instruction regarding declassification, his own White House has previously disclaimed the idea that such utterances were intended to direct declassification if not followed up on through more conventional procedures, bringing their effect into serious doubt.”

Does It Matter What (If Anything) Trump Declassified?

No, not really.

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[cpwill]

Thats what this whole thing is about, so I have to admit, I'm not sure what point it is you are trying to make here.

I was responding to the notion that Trump didn't have the right to take the documents, which many people were conflating with the fact that he didn't have the right to retain the documents once he was no longer president. Basically, people wanted to add charges that wouldn't have held up, and I was pointing out that he was only guilty of that which he was actually guilty of. You would think that would be non-controversial, but it appears to have upset several people.

Last time I checked, he isn't President anymore and is in possession of said documents. As I have stated previously, its not even a matter of the security status of the documents, its the fact that he has them at all that started all of this. The fact that some of the documents might still be classified is completely irrelevant to the matter. Simply having them is illegal enough.

That is correct.

 

[redbeer]

Are you always this obtuse? The Secret Service were notified before they got there. Jan 6 was supposed to be peaceful too, look at what your fellow cult members did there.

Who was Ray Epps working for???

 

[US&THEM]

Who was Ray Epps working for???

Dominion Enterprises a marketing company. Next conspiracy theory?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Too bad that trump and his supporters do not have the balls to own up to their treason. All this pretending that Trump is innocent while the evidence is dangling out in the open is cowardice.

Everyone noticed give it a break.

 

[poweRob]

After the story broke about the documents I was imagining Trump using his beloved Sharpie to cross out 'top secret'.

Or use it to write "DECLASSIFIED" on the boxes.

 

[redbeer]

Too bad that trump and his supporters do not have the balls to own up to their treason. All this pretending that Trump is innocent while the evidence is dangling out in the open is cowardice.

Everyone noticed give it a break.

What evidence????.....all you got are "leaked lies", which you feebly receive as God's word.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

What evidence????.....all you got are "leaked lies", which you feebly receive as God's word.

Still pretending I see.

 

[redbeer]

Still pretending I see.

What?.....it's the truth.....we all know it. You got rumors, leaked lies in which you have taken as the gospel truth.....this is simple fact of today.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

What?.....it's the truth.....we all know it. You got rumors, leaked lies in which you have taken as the gospel truth.....this is simple fact of today.

Bullshit, do not try to play that Trump game, you know that there was no voter fraud. You know Trump is a traitor and wanted the coup. Do not pretend to be patriotic.

 

[redbeer]

Bullshit, do not try to play that Trump game, you know that there was no voter fraud. You know Trump is a traitor and wanted the coup. Do not pretend to be patriotic.

In the swing states prior to the election of 2020, the left sent their goon squad team of lawyers to sneak around State Legislatures, to get voting laws and rules changed......they had a full four years of personal attacks they used politically to sway public opinion.....the msm purposefully refused to cover the Hunter Biden story before the election.......These are all examples of voter fraud in which the left was heavily involved.....now, they need voted out of office, fired, never to return.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

In the swing states prior to the election of 2020, the left sent their goon squad team of lawyers to sneak around State Legislatures, to get voting laws and rules changed......they had a full four years of personal attacks they used politically to sway public opinion.....the msm purposefully refused to cover the Hunter Biden story before the election.......These are all examples of voter fraud in which the left was heavily involved.....now, they need voted out of office, fired, never to return.

Ah yes conspiracy crap topped off with Hunter Biden to assure that everyone knows a line of crap when one see's it.

 

[yankintx]

Hillary Derangement Syndrome 30 years

Someone please help these folks!!

 

[redbeer]

Ah yes conspiracy crap topped off with Hunter Biden to assure that everyone knows a line of crap when one see's it.

Denying is not reality, fyi.

 

[Logician Man]

<<< These are all examples of voter fraud in which the left was heavily involved.....>>>

 

[Metric Mouse]

No, you're lying. But people can watch if for themselves. Unlike you I linked to the video.

Dude, see post 269. We know what the 5th column is. No one is hiding it. Turn your curious George patch upright and remember rule 303.