How Much Of A Role Should Parents Have In Deciding Public School Curricula?

[noonereal]

What level would you consider the role of a parent who either sent their kid(s) to private schools or homeschooled them? If (when?) making that decision allowed them to get a voucher, thus defunding (transferring?) some amount from their local public school they would then have a ‘major’ role.

No way we should transfer monies out of the public schools.

I am staunchly against vouchers.

 

[noonereal]

I don't want faux choosing the curriculum

What does this mean?

 

[ttwtt78640]

No way we should transfer monies out of the public schools.

I am staunchly against vouchers.

I’m staunchly against monopolies (public or private) and the public employee unions which control them.

 

[BirdinHand]

I’m staunchly against monopolies (public or private) and the public employee unions which control them.

Definitely agree there.

 

[noonereal]

Yet that (blame anyone and anything except the teachers) is being used an excuse by teachers to pass these obviously undereducated students along to the next grade level simply because they have aged a year.

While it’s not the fault of a grade level X teacher that many (most?) in their class can’t do grade level X-1 (or X-2) level assignments that’s not a valid reason (excuse) for pretending otherwise and giving them a passing grade for their ‘class participation’ (simply meeting minimum attendance requirements). That may be fine or those in the ‘special education’ programs, but not for those eventually handed (allegedly) ‘regular’ high school diplomas.

I disagree. I see nothing wrong with passing a child along even if their test results suggest that they have retained less than 70% of the information presented them during the year.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Definitely agree there.

There is nothing else to explain the widespread use of ‘social promotion’ in our public K-12 school system. Simply because a student aged a year is not reason to advance them to the next grade level in school.

 

[noonereal]

I’m staunchly against monopolies (public or private) and the public employee unions which control them.

I do agree that all public unions should be banned. Not private, obviously.

You see education as a monopoly? I see it as a public service like the police or fire department.

If you want to really **** things up, put education in the hands of "investors" who only care about profits not the quality of he service.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I’m staunchly against monopolies (public or private) and the public employee unions which control them.

I'm for unions.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I disagree. I see nothing wrong with passing a child along even if their test results suggest that they have retained less than 70% of the information presented them during the year.

I agree, but a test score of 241 out of 500 (or 282 out of 500) possible is not (at least) 70%.

The nation’s average math score for fourth-graders fell by five points since 2019 (from 241 to 236, out of a possible 500). Eighth-graders’ national average math score dropped by eight points (from 282 to 274, out of a possible 500). Average reading scores for both grades fell, less dramatically, by three points. Scores in a group of large urban school districts fell by similar margins.

American test scores prompt 'a moment of truth' for schools

The “Nation’s Report Card” reveals steep declines in math and reading scores among U.S. fourth- and eighth-graders.

www.politico.com

 

[j brown's body]

I’m staunchly against monopolies (public or private) and the public employee unions which control them.

States without teachers unions are generally at the bottom end of school rankings by state.

But I get it, it's ideological for you, if not logical. Amirite?

 

[j brown's body]

Yet that (blame anyone and anything except the teachers) is being used an excuse by teachers to pass these obviously undereducated students along to the next grade level simply because they have aged a year.

While it’s not the fault of a grade level X teacher that many (most?) in their class can’t do grade level X-1 (or X-2) level assignments that’s not a valid reason (excuse) for pretending otherwise and giving them a passing grade for their ‘class participation’ (simply meeting minimum attendance requirements). That may be fine or those in the ‘special education’ programs, but not for those eventually handed (allegedly) ‘regular’ high school diplomas.

You give teachers too much credit. Teachers spend no more than a few hours a week with students. Their influence is minimal, at best.

 

[noonereal]

I agree, but a test score of 241 out of 500 (or 282 out of 500) possible is not (at least) 70%.

American test scores prompt 'a moment of truth' for schools

The “Nation’s Report Card” reveals steep declines in math and reading scores among U.S. fourth- and eighth-graders.

www.politico.com

I believe more harm comes to the child and sociaty to not pass them according to age.

They will be exposed to more and more knowledge the longer they stay in school. No two children retain the same knowledge or same amount. Our setting a standard for how much must be absorbed is capricious and our system for gaging helplessly flawed.
Leaving them back will lead to more and more drop outs. That leaves them less educated than had we passed them along. That leads to more crime and psychological problems for the individual.

Honest, I see no positive to insisting one attain some artificial grade assessment to proceed though the grades.

 

[noonereal]

States without teachers unions are generally at the bottom end of school rankings by state.

Sadly, true.

But the states with unions become cesspools of "who you know" waiting lists that weigh down the community.
Heck, to be a part time janitor in town you have to be connected. And once vested, they take another job within the town to grab as many pensions as possible.
Meantime the average American has no pension at all.

 

[Helix]

What does this mean?

It means that it's mostly faux rage potatoes who are pissed off that their kids are learning science, literature, and that gay people exist. That network has done enough damage to this nation. I don't want it interfering with education. Education is the best antidote to faux.

 

[j brown's body]

Sadly, true.

But the states with unions become cesspools of "who you know" waiting lists that weigh down the community.
Heck, to be a part time janitor in town you have to be connected. And once vested, they take another job within the town to grab as many pensions as possible.
Meantime the average American has no pension at all.

Expand pensions.

 

[ttwtt78640]

States without teachers unions are generally at the bottom end of school rankings by state.

But I get it, it's ideological for you, if not logical. Amirite?

States without teachers unions don’t exist.

So, to be clear, there is not one state that does not allow for teachers’ unions. They are available to teachers, hopefully, to make their professional, and sometimes personal lives better. Their goal is to improve classrooms and the environment that surrounds the schools in which teachers teach.

A few (5?) states don’t allow their teachers unions to do as much, specifically they are not able to ‘negotiate’ their own pay rates and benefits ‘packages’.

Many states limit what can or can’t be negotiated by unions. The state defines a school district’s obligation to collectively bargain, but they also decide the issues as well. So, what about the states that don’t allow for collective bargaining?

The teacher’s unions in these states still have some pull, but with their ability to negotiate pay and benefits for teachers not allowed, their bite isn’t as vicious as some state’s teachers unions.

Are There States Without Teachers Unions?

As we go barreling headfirst into year two of the COVID pandemic, we are learning more and more about teachers’ unions and what they stand for. We are learning just how powerful an entity they have become and how much more power they wish to have. We are also learning that while they supposedly...

go2tutors.com

 

[ttwtt78640]

I believe more harm comes to the child and sociaty to not pass them according to age.

They will be exposed to more and more knowledge the longer they stay in school. No two children retain the same knowledge or same amount. Our setting a standard for how much must be absorbed is capricious and our system for gaging helplessly flawed.
Leaving them back will lead to more and more drop outs. That leaves them less educated than had we passed them along. That leads to more crime and psychological problems for the individual.

Honest, I see no positive to insisting one attain some artificial grade assessment to proceed though the grades.

Hmm… so now you suddenly (one post later?) disagree with making students get passing grades to get to the next grade level. There is no point in wasting my time trying to address your (instant?) moving of the goals posts. HAND

 

[BirdinHand]

You give teachers too much credit. Teachers spend no more than a few hours a week with students. Their influence is minimal, at best.

Sadly, a few hours is more than many parents spend interacting with their own child on a weekly basis.

 

[noonereal]

Hmm… so now you suddenly (one post later?) disagree with making students get passing grades to get to the next grade level. There is no point in wasting my time trying to address your (instant?) moving of the goals posts. HAND

I changed nothing. You either misunderstood my post or confused me with another poster.

Tell me what why you think it preferable to keep 16 year olds in the 8th grade. Is it just because that is how it was done when you were a kid or is there actural substance behind your view?

 

[noonereal]

Sadly, a few hours is more than many parents spend interacting with their own child on a weekly basis.

Yes, it's a bitch parents have to work.

At least today parents work far less than the boomers did.

 

[TXNormalGOP]

You'd be wrong about that. . . VERY wrong.

You foolishly assumed that I had some agenda to prove here, but you are mistaken. I actually stole the poll question from a MSN poll which was aired on the same day. However the results of the MSN poll were very different than the results of this thread's poll. (most responded "moderate role" in the MSN poll)

I never intended it to go one way or another.

Good to know. I live to be foolish.

 

[Josie]

There is nothing else to explain the widespread use of ‘social promotion’ in our public K-12 school system. Simply because a student aged a year is not reason to advance them to the next grade level in school.

Yep, agreed.

 

[AGENT J]

I mostly agree, but that last part is out of reach for many (if not most) parents without implementing some type of voucher program for those who wish to ‘opt out’ of having their children attend public schools.

which was my point really. . . hence why i dont support voucher system because the reality is those basics things they get no say in exist in all accredited schools so if they don't like it, that's just tough and its on them . . .

i support cyber alternatives but that's bout it and again, those schools will be accredited so those specific parents will still be bothered


the only way id support a voucher system is if it was VERY restrictive, i wouldn't want it as a way for nutters to hurt schools that are just fine but they have hurt feelings

i see vouchers as doing nothing but hurting schools and kids as they are set up now

id rather have any trouble schools just held to a higher standard by some other means

reality as shown us over and over again that many upset parents are not really upset with the education or lack of education at times but with social status, who their kids go to school with (or false perception of that) and nutter ideas of indoctrination because . . . . big gasp . . . excepting different people exist is somehow evil to them

if a voucher system was based SOLEY on a schools performance and written very well so all students could perticipate then maybe but not any other way

 

[Lafayette]

Nah - here it boiled down to 12 people runnng for 3 seats.

The “rational” vote got split up between 9 other candidates - and the fringe candidates won with less than or about 10% of the vote each.

An example of too many candidates gone awry.

Not in the least. People like you seem to react to the person with the Most Advertising. As if s/he were a TV-commercial first and a candidate secondly. TV-commercials should NOT be selling political candidates. But they are!!!

Americans seem to have forgot that electing officials is NOT:
*Looking for the millionaires who don't know what to do with their time so they think they should do "representation" of their political-point-of-view.
*Looking for the piss-poor who need a job so why not "political representation" state or federal.
*Looking for the sexiest because s/he's just that - sexy!

What a nation needs most America has - it is called a Political Institution ... Whazzat?

This:

Why political institutions are important?

Political institutions are organizations that make, uphold, and implement laws. They frequently moderate disputes and create (governmental) policies affecting the social and economic systems. To make choices Political institutions are necessary for nations to make decisions about the welfare of their citizens. (Jul 19, 2022)

These institutions can be founded anywhere. They constitute an aggregation of people with a common purpose. To study a subject and offer a legal solution/proposition regarding that subject after sufficient study of the matter.

And they do that job a lot better than just reading the newspaper to obtain an opinion regarding any political subject. The truth is in a subject's often complex-details, not on the Front Page of newspapers!

Yes, the world around us is getting highly complex. That's because advanced civilizations (like those of the US and the EU) have moved to a higher level of cultural-sophistication. Much of it brought about by the Internet but also higher-levels of education that allow people to develop political-opinion based upon fact and factual evidence ...

 

[j brown's body]

States without teachers unions don’t exist.



A few (5?) states don’t allow their teachers unions to do as much, specifically they are not able to ‘negotiate’ their own pay rates and benefits ‘packages’.

Are There States Without Teachers Unions?

As we go barreling headfirst into year two of the COVID pandemic, we are learning more and more about teachers’ unions and what they stand for. We are learning just how powerful an entity they have become and how much more power they wish to have. We are also learning that while they supposedly...

go2tutors.com

A state that doesn't allow a union to collective bargain is essentially a state without a union.