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How much and what should BP pay for as a result of the oil spill?

What and how much should BP pay for as a result of the oil spill?


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phattonez

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That's essentially what cap-and-trade attempts to do. I'm somewhat skeptical of this approach because 1) it's expensive to measure, 2) many of the measurements only work for factory smokestacks and other "obvious" sources of pollution, and 3) even if you could accurately measure the amount of pollution, it's difficult to attach a specific monetary value to it.

I'm certainly open to the idea, but I have my doubts as to how well it would work from a practical standpoint.

Not at all. Cap and trade tries to set arbitrary prices, yet still allow some pollution within a certain range. It has no market basis. Do you really want democrats setting prices if they are going to charge companies?

My position, though more nuanced and idealistic, would be to measure all pollution, but that in order for a company to be allowed to pollute, they have to strike a deal with neighbors about how much they can pollute and how much they will be compensated. Yes, I realize that it is impossible now because this would only really work when companies are deciding where to build a factory, but it really is the only fair system. Right now, I think you could just try to determine what damages you are getting from pollution and try to set prices based on that.

I think in this case, we are talking about what to do after the fact. I cannot imagine that anyone would prefer that this oil be spilled over it not. So with the cat out of the bag, it than becomes time to discuss remediation instead of prevention.

However, prevention is always better.

But it is the same problem. How do you price it? No one owns that water, so it's kind of hard to determine how valuable it was.
 

tacomancer

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But it is the same problem. How do you price it? No one owns that water, so it's kind of hard to determine how valuable it was.

I think you have a good answer.

Right now, I think you could just try to determine what damages you are getting from pollution and try to set prices based on that.
 

phattonez

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It's the only way I could see things working right now.

Look at me, I'm not an anti-enviornmentalist conservative. There is value in keeping up the environment. My only point is that it's not up to government to decide how much we value it. We need some kind of transition to allow that to happen. I haven't been able to think of one, though. For right now, though, this might be the only fair way to handle pollution.
 

tacomancer

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It's the only way I could see things working right now.

Look at me, I'm not an anti-enviornmentalist conservative. There is value in keeping up the environment. My only point is that it's not up to government to decide how much we value it. We need some kind of transition to allow that to happen. I haven't been able to think of one, though. For right now, though, this might be the only fair way to handle pollution.

The problem with governments doing things like this is that they will come up with some formula that may or may not have anything to do with reality. So really, the only thing we can look at is direct damage and its attributable cost.
 

phattonez

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I'd say usually has nothing to do with reality and only has to do with what makes them look good.
 

RightinNYC

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From what I understand, they are only liable for 75 million, which is why I expect the American taxpayer will pick up the tab for the rest of the damages and lost wages/industry.

This is a popular misconception. BP is liable for the entire costs of clean up. The $75m cap is on incidental damages, e.g. costs created by decreased tourism, loss of work, etc.
 

The Mark

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Depending on the details of this incident (I have no idea what they are), some portion of the blame probably rests with BP.

But I am sure it is not solely to blame.

That never happens.
 

upsideguy

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Trial lawyers are loving this.

Think of all the money they will make off of this incident.

This is why we have courts and this is why trial lawyers are necessary.

This is (will be) very, very complex. There are several villains and many, many, many victims. Untangling this mess including, identifying the culprits, assigning the fair degree of blame, identifying the victims and assessing their specific damages, is going to take some work. The courts are there to make sure the process is as fair as practical.

Everyone gets their day in court..... for BP, TransOcean and Halliburton (and probably the US Dept of Interior), may those days be long and numerous.
 

Hatuey

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This is funny, hearing everyone talk about these guys needing to pay for 100% of the damage costs. Why don't we hear the same cry for air pollution or water pollution? No, we need to cap those instead. Seems to me that's a lot of hypocrisy.

... because people like you swear it's having zero or no effect on our planet. This 'accident' on the other hand has a verifiable clear as daylight effect on the environment. We don't need to have 100 page long debates on a fact which much of the scientific community agrees on. We don't have to debate made up e-mail controversies etc. We don't have to debate whether Al Gore invented the interwebz. It's simple. BP has as of today destroyed the livelihoods of thousands because of the 'Drill Baby Drill' mentality. End of story. Two separate issues.
 
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phattonez

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... because people like you swear it's having zero or no effect on our planet.

I don't make that claim so your whole post therefore is worthless. Local pollution does indeed cause serious damage.
 

The Mark

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... because people like you swear it's having zero or no effect on our planet. This 'accident' on the other hand has a verifiable clear as daylight effect on the environment. We don't need to have 100 page long debates on a fact which much of the scientific community agrees on. We don't have to debate made up e-mail controversies etc. We don't have to debate whether Al Gore invented the interwebz. It's simple. BP has as of today destroyed the livelihoods of thousands because of the 'Drill Baby Drill' mentality. End of story. Two separate issues.
Wow...

Ok, obviously the incident had an negative effect on the local environment. Anyone who questions that is insane.

Stating that a single entity has cause this incident is total BS and insane too.

Blaming the "Drill Baby Drill" mentality is also total BS and insane.

The multiple issues involved here are FAR more nuanced than that.
 

Donc

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3597015609_3479a8bb0d_m.jpg


I voted other because there wasn’t a 100% plus another 50% for some of the s*** they have most likely skated by the last fifty years in countries like this.


<An estimated 1.5 million tons of oil has spilled in the Niger Delta ecosystem over the past 50 years this amount is equivalent to about one “Exxon Valdez” spill in the Niger Delta each year.>

http://www.ccrjustice.org/files/4.6.09 final environmental factsheet.pdf
 

Jucon

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Wow...

Ok, obviously the incident had an negative effect on the local environment. Anyone who questions that is insane.

Stating that a single entity has cause this incident is total BS and insane too.

Blaming the "Drill Baby Drill" mentality is also total BS and insane.

The multiple issues involved here are FAR more nuanced than that.

I'm mostly pissed because they didn't ensure their shut off valves worked correctly... they not working the one time they are needed cannot be a coincidence. Either they used a faulty system or they didn't keep it up to par.

Not only that but they didn't have any back up plans (that worked) ready to go. This is all trial and error they're doing right now... meanwhile they are destroying the local environment.

Yes, these things can happen and I am willing to accept that... but as a major company that has the potential of causing havoc on the local environment if heaven forbid something happens, you need to have your **** together to reduce collateral damage. They have billions of dollars in profit and they would rather spend that on law suits and major cleanup rather than ensuring spilled oil is kept to a minimum after a disaster? That's what it looks like to me right now.
 

Queen

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Spill baby spill.
 

earthworm

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Do you think Obama will say that those lawyers made too much?

I do not know about our President; but I will say that they make too much.
Reform is badly needed here.
We can start with much higher taxes on the wealthy.
 

LiberalAvenger

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I'm mostly concerned about the innocent fishermen who have lost their livelihoods. These are not wealthy people and cannot get along without income.

I used to shrimp in the gulf years ago and catch oil balls in my nets, especially off the coast of Louisiana. This has been going on for years. I hope it is really investigated like Obama promises but I am afraid of more cover ups.

I heard reports of the coast guard today finding oil balls off the florida keys.:(
 

phattonez

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Oil balls? You mean that oil isn't disrupted enough by waves to break it apart in the ocean? That's pretty interesting, actually.
 

LiberalAvenger

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Oil balls? You mean that oil isn't disrupted enough by waves to break it apart in the ocean? That's pretty interesting, actually.

The media calls them tar balls but I call them oil balls. After all tar is made from oil. One of tar's major uses is for flat roofing. They heat the tar and then mop it onto the roof surface where it hardens up and is one of the most waterproof systems there is for flat roofs.

Also rolled rubber roofs are used for this but they probably make the rubber from oil too.
 

obvious Child

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Ideally they'd pay 100% of the cleanup and 100% of the incidental damages, but that probably isn't realistic. Hopefully they'll at least have to pay for the total cost of the cleanup and SOME of the incidental damages.

It's not just BP though. Halliburton and Transocean are liable as well.

More accurately, they won't pay anything. Their insurance will.
 

barefootguy

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All of the above plus criminal charges. They had illegally obtained permits to drill.
 
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