How good should education be?

[mikhail]

Whilst i would agree everyone should have a decent level of education, however if everyone was taught to an extremely high standard wouldnt this mean you would have very well educated people working full time in mcdonalds and emptying bins? i imagine that being extremely depressing for the individual?Isnt ignourance bliss for some?

 

[Jerry]

Whilst i would agree everyone should have a decent level of education, however if everyone was taught to an extremely high standard wouldnt this mean you would have very well educated people working full time in mcdonalds and emptying bins? i imagine that being extremely depressing for the individual?Isnt ignourance bliss for some?

I would support a program that determined which students should go on to high school and which students should go to a trade school instead.

You can always come back and go to collage.

FYI: I'm one of the students who would have don a lot better in life going to vo-tech instead of high school, and from there right into the work force or the service. I wonder if children from broken homes would generally do better going that rout, instead of getting board with school, getting pregnant and flipping burgers and McDonnalds.

 

[Kernel Sanders]

I would support a program that determined which students should go on to high school and which students should go to a trade school instead.

You can always come back and go to collage.

FYI: I'm one of the students who would have don a lot better in life going to vo-tech instead of high school, and from there right into the work force or the service. I wonder if children from broken homes would generally do better going that rout, instead of getting board with school, getting pregnant and flipping burgers and McDonnalds.

My high school did just that. They had a program in tandem with a trade school where students would attend the trade school most of the time, and attend the high school to fulfill the basic academic requirements

 

[Jerry]

My high school did just that. They had a program in tandem with a trade school where students would attend the trade school most of the time, and attend the high school to fulfill the basic academic requirements

I would have loved that. I wasted a lot of years sitting around in dead end jobs, board with life, not knowing wtf to do with myself.

 

[B L Zeebub]

I dont know what an indecent level of education is?

I just went by the yard stick that if I could not understand my daughter homework and she could, her education was moving in the right direction

 

[UtahBill]

I was bored a lot, and I went to an academically superior school. I thought I wanted to go to college, but looking back, trade school would have been the wiser choice. My navy tech schools are the reason I have always been employed. We will always need people who can repair things.

And for all the reading of history and politics that I have done, it hasn't made the world a better place. Maybe we need MORE of those things that make us suspicious of leaders, so teach more history, but taught accurately, warts and all....

 

[Laila]

Education should be the best it can be however some students excel in different areas.
Not everyone would go along to Uni and further education

 

[alexa]

I would support a program that determined which students should go on to high school and which students should go to a trade school instead.

But you have to be careful how you do it and it has to be a choice.

We used to have a system similar to this. People who did not pass the 11+ were sent to schools where girls were taught to be good wives and boys were taught carpentry and what not. Very little in the way of academic work at all.

I think education is really important. At the moment if a kid for whatever reason fails to learn to read and write properly by the time they are 7 they have very little chance of catching up. These kids often come from families where there is little parental interest in their education.

I would like therefore to see a lot more work put in at primary level to make sure no child misses out and help immediately a problem is found.

People will always have different interests so yes, a variety of different options should be available and maybe some kind of specialisation from 14 or so, if the child wants but most of all we still need to catch the children who for whatever reason do not make it through the early so important stages.

Then Education can be a life long thing as per what interests each person.

Not everyone will want to go on to University but even if they did, don't worry all the actors, dancers and artists if no one else will still need stand by jobs at McDonalds!!:lol:

 

[Jerry]

But you have to be careful how you do it and it has to be a choice.

What precautions would be needed and why would it have to be a choice for someone ill suited for high school? I could see someone qualified for high school stepping it down for whatever reason, but why send an ill suited person to something they're not ready for?

We used to have a system similar to this.

Who's "we"? You don't have a location displayed so I don't know who that would be.

People who did not pass the 11+ were sent to schools where girls were taught to be good wives and boys were taught carpentry and what not. Very little in the way of academic work at all.

Is academic work really that important? I mean, carpentry teaches you trig and physics, so I don't understand what you mean. Are you referring to something like an advanced English coarse that isn't ever going to be used in the trade?

 

[alexa]

What precautions would be needed and why would it have to be a choice for someone ill suited for high school? I could see someone qualified for high school stepping it down for whatever reason, but why send an ill suited person to something they're not ready for?

Where I live is the UK. My concern was because of our old system which decided for the child based on a test at 11. That ended the future choices of the person.

Kids develop at different times. For that reason I am not keen on anything which puts a child in any particular direction until it can be sure that is the right direction.

I just don't want to see anything like what we used to have and believe children should get a rounded education. Of course that can include technical subjects as well but I would never like to see something like the system we had here brought in again.

Is academic work really that important? I mean, carpentry teaches you trig and physics, so I don't understand what you mean. Are you referring to something like an advanced English coarse that isn't ever going to be used in the trade?

No I never referred to anything of the sort - I said my interest was to make sure some young children did not miss out at the crucial early stages which is what still happens here for some.

I think that being able to think and be critical and have discriminatory powers - that is to be taught to think for yourself are important aspects of education which I would ideally like to see everyone taught. That with the ability to read and write is the basis for me.

I think we owe everyone the best possible education - if at some point the child wishes to specialise in an area outside the academic that would be alright with me as long as it was not too early.

 

[Real Talk]

People should be able to educate on pretty much anything that they want 2.

 

[alexa]

People should be able to educate on pretty much anything that they want 2.

You believe in 'free schools' ?

 

[Real Talk]

Yes. I do.
I also believe in paying people to study.
But I think rewards should be highly peformance based.
And with it being easier to get paid to study things that were in demand in the economy.

 

[alexa]

Yes. I do.

I'm not necessarily against them myself but I knew someone who attended one and they said it was fun but they really had to get their education needed for work afterwards.

There is certainly room for consideration of them, though I suspect this demands a better type of teacher.

In the UK in the 70's we got into progressive teaching in our main schools but kids did not learn so well - so it moved back to more traditional.

My belief is that they did not learn so well because the demands were higher on the teachers and they were not up to it.

 

[Real Talk]

I'm not necessarily against them myself but I knew someone who attended one and they said it was fun but they really had to get their education needed for work afterwards.

There is certainly room for consideration of them, though I suspect this demands a better type of teacher.

In the UK in the 70's we got into progressive teaching in our main schools but kids did not learn so well - so it moved back to more traditional.

My belief is that they did not learn so well because the demands were higher on the teachers and they were not up to it.

O what I thought u meant free in the economic sense?

 

[alexa]

O what I thought u meant free in the economic sense?

Yes, I realised it could be mistaken for that. That was why I put it in inverted commas.

Here is a link to I think Britain's longest going Free School.

A. S. Neill's Summerhill School

 

[WI Crippler]

I think there should be an option, to "opt out" of your last two years of high school, if you can test show you are proficient in basic skills needed in vocational jobs. If you want to go to a university, obviously you would elect to finish out your high school time, since universities require that you have some more advanced classes to be admitted. This way we get kids that aren't planning on doing something with a university, out of the public school system and into the workforce earlier. For the kids who chose this option, they would be forced to grow up faster, and accept personal responsibility at a younger age. Its not like school where they get to **** off, and come back the next day. If they **** off, they get fired. We still need people in this country to produce things, to build, etc....We can't have a society full of graduates with sociology degrees.

 

[justabubba]

Whilst i would agree everyone should have a decent level of education, however if everyone was taught to an extremely high standard wouldnt this mean you would have very well educated people working full time in mcdonalds and emptying bins? i imagine that being extremely depressing for the individual?Isnt ignourance bliss for some?

i see your point

those nations filled with ignorant, uneducated people sure seem to do well economically [/s]

hope you can open this graph/image [See full size image] to see the relationship for yourself

Google Image Result for http://www.avjm.org/resources/How+does+the+expected+duration+of+schooling+relate+to+national+wealth.bmp

 

[UtahBill]

I think there should be an option, to "opt out" of your last two years of high school, if you can test show you are proficient in basic skills needed in vocational jobs. If you want to go to a university, obviously you would elect to finish out your high school time, since universities require that you have some more advanced classes to be admitted. This way we get kids that aren't planning on doing something with a university, out of the public school system and into the workforce earlier. For the kids who chose this option, they would be forced to grow up faster, and accept personal responsibility at a younger age. Its not like school where they get to **** off, and come back the next day. If they **** off, they get fired. We still need people in this country to produce things, to build, etc....We can't have a society full of graduates with sociology degrees.

I agree with opting, or testing out. But that will be a small percentage of the kids.
The core curriculum should be complete by grade 10, and the last 2 years should be planned by the staff based on the student's decision for a career path. If the student says at grade 10 completion that he wants to go to college, then there is a plan for the next 2 years that prepares him for such.
Likewise, for blue collar/technical jobs.
But if the student wants to be a bum and make no effort to further his education, them make sure he knows he might be opting out of any social programs down the line. The kids get total freedom of choice, but that freedom also includes the freedom to be hungry, cold, and alone if they choose to be a drain on society instead of a contributor...

 

[Real Talk]

I think there should be an option, to "opt out" of your last two years of high school, if you can test show you are proficient in basic skills needed in vocational jobs. If you want to go to a university, obviously you would elect to finish out your high school time, since universities require that you have some more advanced classes to be admitted. This way we get kids that aren't planning on doing something with a university, out of the public school system and into the workforce earlier. For the kids who chose this option, they would be forced to grow up faster, and accept personal responsibility at a younger age. Its not like school where they get to **** off, and come back the next day. If they **** off, they get fired. We still need people in this country to produce things, to build, etc....We can't have a society full of graduates with sociology degrees.

graduates with sociology degrees can do the same jobs as high school leavers. Especially if the studies were paid!

 

[Jerry]

Where I live is the UK. My concern was because of our old system which decided for the child based on a test at 11. That ended the future choices of the person.

Kids develop at different times. For that reason I am not keen on anything which puts a child in any particular direction until it can be sure that is the right direction.

I just don't want to see anything like what we used to have and believe children should get a rounded education. Of course that can include technical subjects as well but I would never like to see something like the system we had here brought in again.

Again, what specific precautions would need to be in place?

Why would it have to be a choice for an under qualified person?

They couldn't go back to collage later?

No I never referred to anything of the sort -

I didn't say you did, I said I didn't understand what you were saying

I said my interest was to make sure some young children did not miss out at the crucial early stages which is what still happens here for some.

I think that being able to think and be critical and have discriminatory powers - that is to be taught to think for yourself are important aspects of education which I would ideally like to see everyone taught. That with the ability to read and write is the basis for me.

I think we owe everyone the best possible education - if at some point the child wishes to specialise in an area outside the academic that would be alright with me as long as it was not too early.

You didn't tell me what you thought "academic study" was (ie; specific courses), or how academics were to critical for an underachiever to miss out on.

 

[mikhail]

i see your point

those nations filled with ignorant, uneducated people sure seem to do well economically [/s]

hope you can open this graph/image [See full size image] to see the relationship for yourself

Google Image Result for http://www.avjm.org/resources/How+does+the+expected+duration+of+schooling+relate+to+national+wealth.bmp

I dont mean anything that extreme want im saying is that doesent mean every child should be educated to the full extent that education can go.

 

[American]

I think a good primary education encompasses several features:

1) a proper understanding and use of the English language. (communication)
2) basic cognitive skills necessary for any job. (self-support and further education)
3) a proper understanding of the history and principles of government of the US. (citizenship)

 

[alexa]

Again, what specific precautions would need to be in place?

My concern is that children could be streamed into going into training rather than following the broad curriculum earlier. That is my concern.

Why would it have to be a choice for an under qualified person?

In this country probably not because we have degrees on absolutely everything now. My concern is that the person is allowed to make the choice for themselves - that is again, not streamed off early because they have not yet shown their potential. Unfortunately for gifted children as well it can be difficult to make choices. Parents usually do this for them....so your probably going to find in most cases that the parents of little Joe who is extremely bright will want him to stay in mainstay education for a little longer anyway.

The vulnerability is therefor on the less bright who may well turn more bright.

I also think that it is good for kids to get a little basic knowledge of a broad curriculum. However I don't see anything wrong with them going off to study whatever as part of their education. I think that idea is coming in here. No doubt it will also have school qualifications so will be similar to anything else.

They couldn't go back to collage later?

Of course. I did my own degree late having begun my working life as an actor. However that is not so easy now.

My concern remains particularly with poor kids from not so good neighbourhoods possibly being wrongly pushed in this direction.

You didn't tell me what you thought "academic study" was (ie; specific courses), or how academics were to critical for an underachiever to miss out on.

Well I guess I am thinking about the normal subjects on the school curriculum which result in school qualifications though I have realised while writing this that many new ones could be brought in.

I have my particular interest that children learn to think for themselves. In order to do that they need to learn to be able to think critically and to discriminate....as my daughter was none to keen to learn when she was at school in order to do that you need to learn some facts first.

School should be about so much. Learning to be creative as well.

My concerns are simply that I do not want any children bundled off into a second level education.

Please, I have said enough. Please expand on what you want.

 

[WI Crippler]

graduates with sociology degrees can do the same jobs as high school leavers.

So can graduates with engineering degrees from MIT or law degrees from Havard. Whats your point?