How can a vote against a Syrian STRIKE not be a vote for Assad & Putin?

[P. Kersey]

I see a vote against a STRIKE against Syria as a vote siding with Americans who are sick and tire of money being wasted. Yeah its bad what Assad allegedly did.But bad **** happens all over the world. We are going broke,we can not afford any more wars. Besides it seems that when ever we help another country it comes back later to bite us in the ass.

We don't "help" other countries out of altruism. We purposely manipulate and destabilize in order to be able to (continue to) exert influence in the area

 

[P. Kersey]

Many people keep asking ...why strike Syria...whats in it for us (America)?
Well you can't have it both ways ...you either lead, follow or get out of the way.

And when events like this happen and the US doesn't step up ....sooner or later someone else will. Let China for example start taking the lead on events like this and soon ...the US will become irrelevant.

You can't have it both ways ...you can't claim to be the world's force and the superpower ...and show off you dam selves all day...and when there's a situation you want to crawl in your hole!!

Ohhh..you aren't an american. That explains a lot.
Like another poster said...get YOUR country to go sort it out since you're so outraged by assad.

 

[Dickieboy]

From what I understand the 'planned' desired targets are anti-air missile defense batteries due to their value to Assad in preventing aerial intrusions. I also understand these are manned partially by Russians (as it is their equipment). It would seem plausible that if we do in fact target these RUSSIANS would possibly be killed...with CERTAIN ramifications. Does this sound remotely like a good idea?

One other question, is the enemy of my enemy my friend?

 

[a351]

How has regime change supported by the US in Egypt and Libya worked out?

I'll take the current Libyan leadership over Gaddafi every day of the week and twice on Sunday. What plagues Egypt now is largely the same as what plagued them prior to the revolution :shrug:. It's also naive to expect countries in their fledgling years of representative government to flourish as the West would expect.

 

[Un biased]

I feel like history repeating itself with the Iraq war McCain weapons of mass destruction rebels getting slaughtered in a mass murder kind of way .

If we strike we have to take out the guy once and for all or it will be like Hussein we made it worse by going their the first place and not stopping him for good because after that he started with burning down homes and people and bombing his people who rebelled against him .

After the rebels take control or if they do will they be any better than their last leader like when we put Fulgencio Batista into power who also abused his people and was over thrown himself

 

[polgara]

People in the US can slice and dice and equivocate all they want. But the world ..especially those in the region (including Israel) will see an American congress vote against a STRIKE against Syria as a vote siding with Vladimir and Assad.

There simply is no other way to look at it ...especially if your in Israel right walking around with Gas Masks in your bag!

In fact I endorse McCain's idea to not just hit Assad..but to take steps to take him out. Hit his weapons cache...and arm the rebels to go in and finish the job!

I also feel if congress vote no for this STRIKE ...Obama should exercise his executive power ...and STRIKE Syria non the less.
He (Obama) isn't looking for another term...and when the history books look at this fiasco ..I am sure this will clearly be the right decision.

Good evening, TFY. :2wave:

1. Okay, who or what do you suggest we strike?

2. I don't believe Israel thinks of Syria much at all. They're more concerned with Iran's nuclear capabilities.

3. You suggest we take Assad out? And replace him with what? You see what's going on in Egypt.

4. Obama is reluctant to do this on his own, and for good reason, IMO. Just because he isn't looking at another term doesn't mean he should jeopardize the rest of this one, IMO. The American people just don't like the smell of this whole thing as it stands... No one has taken credit publicly for the use of chemical weapons. Why not?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Circumstances?
We were lied to, right?

Yes, by the opposition.

Saddam did have WMD. We just didn't find it. All he had to do to keep us from attacking Iraq, was allow the UN inspectors to check the sites unhampered, and show disposition of the WMD he was known to have. In a post 9/11 world, we were doing our best to keep these weapons out of terrorists hands.

You do realize don't you, that one of Saddam's generals said much of Saddam's WMD went to Syria, right?

The chemical attacks in Syria, used by the rebels, could have been from Iraq.

 

[tessaesque]

How about we focus on providing security and aid to surrounding countries and refugees instead of pissing off the world and over-extending our military yet again in a battle where both sides stink to high heaven of lies and murderous behavior?

 

[Lord of Planar]

From what I understand the 'planned' desired targets are anti-air missile defense batteries due to their value to Assad in preventing aerial intrusions. I also understand these are manned partially by Russians (as it is their equipment). It would seem plausible that if we do in fact target these RUSSIANS would possibly be killed...with CERTAIN ramifications. Does this sound remotely like a good idea?

One other question, is the enemy of my enemy my friend?

Wow...

We don't need to piss them off...

 

[Lord of Planar]

What are you Middle-East warmongers going to say when the Arab Spring starts in Jordan?

 

[a351]

What you guys fail to see is one relevant fact.

These guys don't wear uniforms. This is what happens...

1) Rebels attack.

2) Rebels killed.

3) Remaining Rebels manage to collect most the firearms and flee.

4) Unarmed dead rebels = propaganda of civilians killed.
Now please, let that sink in a few minutes before responding. Now there is collateral damage as well, but the conflict is initiated by the rebels.

What an absolute crock. Your supposed fact is anything but. The fact is that Assad led forces have initiated numerous acts of violence and terror aimed at rebel military forces and unarmed civilians alike. In fact, the beginning of the armed conflicts themselves began with troops loyal to Assad firing upon protesters. Your posts in this thread are positively dripping with apologism. Pathetic really.

 

[Dickieboy]

Wow...

We don't need to piss them off...

Yeah, I know...like how would we feel if say we lost a few of our boys in such a strike? Such a situation would certainly enable the President to pretty much do what he wanted under the war powers act. Wonder if the ruskies have a similar provision?

I had also read that due to our ~10 years of war our hard military assets are somewhat depleted. Not a good time to engage in strife with one of the top 5 global powers.

 

[polgara]

How about we focus on providing security and aid to surrounding countries and refugees instead of pissing off the world and over-extending our military yet again in a battle where both sides stink to high heaven of lies and murderous behavior?

Good evening, tessaesque. :2wave:

This is probably the best post on this subject I have read! :thumbs:

IMO, we would score more points from the rest of the world by providing humanitarian aid to those fleeing this mess. Women and children live in Syria, too! Why should they be punished or killed for the actions of idiots who want to see chaos in their country? Too much doesn't ring true here!

 

[Lord of Planar]

What an absolute crock. Your supposed fact is anything but. The fact is that Assad led forces have initiated numerous acts of violence and terror aimed at rebel military forces and unarmed civilians alike. In fact, the beginning of the armed conflicts themselves began with troops loyal to Assad firing upon protesters. Your posts in this thread are positively dripping with apologism. Pathetic really.

I must have struck a nerve. You lost your civility.

Have any actual facts that prove non-violent protesters were attacked?

 

[Drake McHugh]

People in the US can slice and dice and equivocate all they want. But the world ..especially those in the region (including Israel) will see an American congress vote against a STRIKE against Syria as a vote siding with Vladimir and Assad.

There simply is no other way to look at it ...especially if your in Israel right walking around with Gas Masks in your bag!

In fact I endorse McCain's idea to not just hit Assad..but to take steps to take him out. Hit his weapons cache...and arm the rebels to go in and finish the job!

I also feel if congress vote no for this STRIKE ...Obama should exercise his executive power ...and STRIKE Syria non the less.
He (Obama) isn't looking for another term...and when the history books look at this fiasco ..I am sure this will clearly be the right decision.

Actually I fear a strike against Assad makes an attack on Israel by Syria and Iran much more likely.
Besides,most of the "rebels"that McCain and Graham laud are Al Quaeda.

 

[a351]

Have any actual facts that prove non-violent protesters were attacked?

BBC News - Syria protests: Security forces shoot at mourners

Syrian defectors tell of orders to kill and torture protesters - CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/25/syria.unrest/index.html

But hey, it you're not in the reading mood, why not consider.. ya know.. the indiscriminate chemical attack that is prompting the possible action?

 

[thinkforyoursel]

I feel like history repeating itself with the Iraq war McCain weapons of mass destruction rebels getting slaughtered in a mass murder kind of way .

If we strike we have to take out the guy once and for all or it will be like Hussein we made it worse by going their the first place and not stopping him for good because after that he started with burning down homes and people and bombing his people who rebelled against him .

After the rebels take control or if they do will they be any better than their last leader like when we put Fulgencio Batista into power who also abused his people and was over thrown himself

Compared to the Iraq war this is ...night and day.

Bush contrived a reason for war when there wasn't any....there were no WMD ...Saddam wasn't an eminent threat to the US ...and he deployed troops to invade the country.

In this case ...the evidence is conclusive ....there are WMD not just present.....but currently being used, and Obama has no intention to deploy troops in the country.

In my view the people on the right-wing are confused and have things backwards. This is the situation they should be for .....instead they choose Iraq's 10 year invasion to support. :roll:

 

[Grand Mal]

Those rebels are mostly Islamists, some are outright Al Qaeda. Assad is a brutal bastard despot but if he's taken out or just weakened enough for the rebels to win there'll be a battle in the Golan Heights, sure as God made little green apples.
It's a tough choice- do you act on the principle that a really big atrocity should'nt go unpunished and leave an ally (?) vulnerable or be seen to make the politic decision by doing nothing.
I guess Assad is going down and Israel will be mobilizing to face whoever replaces him.

 

[polgara]

Actually I fear a strike against Assad makes an attack on Israel by Syria and Iran much more likely.
Besides,most of the "rebels"that McCain and Graham laud are Al Quaeda.

I guess we're supposed to like AlQueda now, and forget everything we know about them? :thumbdown:. I'm beginning to have my doubts about McCain, too. He just wants to bomb things at the drop of a hat lately! WTH is going on with him?

Good evening, Drake McHugh. :2wave:

 

[Lord of Planar]

BBC News - Syria protests: Security forces shoot at mourners

Syrian defectors tell of orders to kill and torture protesters - CNN.com

Dozens of Syrians reported killed in Daraa - CNN.com

But hey, it you're not in the reading mood, why not consider.. ya know.. the indiscriminate chemical attack that is prompting the possible action?

Interesting how you believe such news. How do you know the people reporting this were honest? Propaganda is real, and without our own eyes on the situation, this is every bit as likely a complete orchestrated fabrication.

 

[Drake McHugh]

I guess we're supposed to like AlQueda now, and forget everything we know about them? :thumbdown:. I'm beginning to have my doubts about McCain, too. He just wants to bomb things at the drop of a hat lately! WTH is going on with him?

Good evening, Drake McHugh. :2wave:

McCain wants ground troops in there no doubt. He is absolutely insane. Still clinging to the failed neocon views that lost the last two elections for the GOP.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Those rebels are mostly Islamists, some are outright Al Qaeda. Assad is a brutal bastard despot but if he's taken out or just weakened enough for the rebels to win there'll be a battle in the Golan Heights, sure as God made little green apples.
It's a tough choice- do you act on the principle that a really big atrocity should'nt go unpunished and leave an ally (?) vulnerable or be seen to make the politic decision by doing nothing.
I guess Assad is going down and Israel will be mobilizing to face whoever replaces him.

Let's be honest ....the arguments being used about who the rebels are ...are just speculation. That's the truth...I laugh at some ..white...guy sitting a world away in some air conditioned news room ...sounding like he actually knows who the Syrian Rebels are. They don't ...Dick Cheney said the Iraqis would greet us with flowers ...how did that work out?

The fact is Assad can't stay ...and the Rebels seeing the US take him out ...will surely heed that power and not screw around once Assad is gone. Will the country look like America ...hell no ...but at least this butcher (Assad) will be gone.

 

[Un biased]

Compared to the Iraq war this is ...night and day.

Bush contrived a reason for war when there wasn't any....there were no WMD ...Saddam wasn't an eminent threat to the US ...and he deployed troops to invade the country.

In this case ...the evidence is conclusive ....there are WMD not just present.....but currently being used, and Obama has no intention to deploy troops in the country.

In my view the people on the right-wing are confused and have things backwards. This is the situation they should be for .....instead they choose Iraq's 10 year invasion to support. :roll:

Right wing you must have me confused with someone else . Hussein killed a lot of people like genocide was about to go out of style ( sort of like now ) Syria how is it a threat to the U.S Obama said and as well as McCain They will be intervening in any way as they possible can ( or so they say ) . WMD it is still is a excuse to intervene .

What is with people with Iraq you treat it as the most important thing or a bad thing for the wrong reasons America in the first war Messed up . Incented a rebellion with Hussein and said they were to support them but did not a Angry Hussein started to slaughter the people ( and then some ) who went against him . Dropping Napalm to his people that is a weapon of mass destruction . The second war was almost Justified it was fixing the mistakes of a past president who set the motion to action . Why would we support a 10 year invasion to get rid of a dictator who was committing a genocide we set in motion . Err I don't know.


Hussein used a poisonous gas to kill his people and a lot more than 1249 died

 

[Grand Mal]

Let's be honest ....the arguments being used about who the rebels are ...are just speculation. That's the truth...I laugh at some ..white...guy sitting a world away in some air conditioned news room ...sounding like he actually knows who the Syrian Rebels are. They don't ...Dick Cheney said the Iraqis would greet us with flowers ...how did that work out?

The fact is Assad can't stay ...and the Rebels seeing the US take him out ...will surely heed that power and not screw around once Assad is gone. Will the country look like America ...hell no ...but at least this butcher (Assad) will be gone.

My God, are you deliberately trying to make your post hard to read? Look up 'ellipsis' and learn to use it.
Dick Cheney? What? We're talking about missiles destroying the Syrian air power, possibly targeting Assad.
And if you think Arab militants will learn from an American military action that they shouldn't screw around with America, well, God bless you. Those were Saudi Arabians who flew those planes on 9/11.

 

[Drake McHugh]

Let's be honest ....the arguments being used about who the rebels are ...are just speculation. That's the truth...I laugh at some ..white...guy sitting a world away in some air conditioned news room ...sounding like he actually knows who the Syrian Rebels are. They don't ...Dick Cheney said the Iraqis would greet us with flowers ...how did that work out?

The fact is Assad can't stay ...and the Rebels seeing the US take him out ...will surely heed that power and not screw around once Assad is gone. Will the country look like America ...hell no ...but at least this butcher (Assad) will be gone.

You are a world away too,predicting what the "rebels"will do once they take over.
On a side note,I am white but seldom use air conditioning.