House Dem: Impeaching Trump on party lines would 'tear the country apart'

[Keridan]

It's a great cap on the US as a nation. To impeach a president for a framed up crime little different from the Kavenaugh **** show. I love it!

China waits with baited breath for the next iteration of Obama or Romney so they can plow us like a two bit whore.

The country won't collapse like Soviet Russia, it will just fade away as it loses it's identity and it's industrial base continues to be sent off shore by the people who read poll tested scripts saying "You are number one in my book". LOL.

BTW, what would have democrats done with the swarm of illegals on the borders? I'll tell you that it will teach the liberals why illegals make such good employees. They work and shut up, and are truly thankful for a job, because they know what it is to suffer under a crooked government.

Notice that I didn't comment on whether or not he has committed an impeachable offense. I don't really know. He has done a lot of shady stuff, but I am not qualified to judge impeachment and it does often get hard to judge how much is really him screwing up and how much is people looking for anything at all to attack.

There is a process. The senate wouldn't hold it up anyway.

Even if he did get impeached by some crazy situation, I don't see it causing real lasting harm to the country.

 

[JasperL]

Oh...be honest. Don't you REALLY wish the Dems would go after Trump?

Oh...be honest. Don't you REALLY wish Trump was Dear Leader for life?

But to answer your question, ask me again when Mueller issues his report and we know what's in it.

 

[JasperL]

What I want is for Mueller's investigation to proceed unimpeded and for congress to weigh the evidence when it is complete.

Yeah, it's not that hard. I don't know why our Trump lemming friends find this simple concept difficult to grasp.

 

[chuckiechan]

Notice that I didn't comment on whether or not he has committed an impeachable offense. I don't really know. He has done a lot of shady stuff, but I am not qualified to judge impeachment and it does often get hard to judge how much is really him screwing up and how much is people looking for anything at all to attack.

There is a process. The senate wouldn't hold it up anyway.

Even if he did get impeached by some crazy situation, I don't see it causing real lasting harm to the country.

It will be like the Kavenaugh hearings. If you don't have proof, make it up. And at the end of the day, Trump wins but you still get to say your lies were true and the media will back you up.

 

[JasperL]

I have been preaching this for awhile. As long as we don't address this issue the polarization and resentment will only continue to increase. This is the reason the country was setup as it was with everything not detailed in the constitution be decided by the states, we have lost sight of that concept and unless we move back to it then the inevitable result will be either civil war or best case scenario a peaceful split.

I appreciate the sentiment, but the problem is putting a nice thought into actual practice. At the national level, we spend money on just a few really big things - Medicare/Medicaid, SS, military (that's about 3/4) then everything else.

How do we move Medicare and SS to the states? VA benefits? Even Medicaid?

 

[JasperL]

It will be like the Kavenaugh hearings. If you don't have proof, make it up. And at the end of the day, Trump wins but you still get to say your lies were true and the media will back you up.

It will be nothing like the Kavanaugh hearings. :roll:

 

[chuckiechan]

It will be nothing like the Kavanaugh hearings. :roll:

It will be worse. Pure and unhinged hatted of all things republican, conservative, and Trump.

 

[Keridan]

It will be like the Kavenaugh hearings. If you don't have proof, make it up. And at the end of the day, Trump wins but you still get to say your lies were true and the media will back you up.

You could very well be right. Certainly those hearings were some shady shady stuff. I still have yet to see any evidence. Those hearings were at least required for confirmation, though. It's the abuse of that process that was pretty gross.

The thing is ... there's no avoiding the Trump hearings. If Hillary had won, she would have been investigated by now, too. Control of the HOR means investigative and subpoena power and the gridlock, polarization, and overall gross practices of a majority in government pretty well guarantees the power will be used for grandstanding at least.

Trump is an incredibly polarizing president, too. Like him or hate him, he makes sure he's in the news and in your face as much as possible. He does things his way and doesn't much care who he pisses off in the process. On top of that, the entire election of 2016 was a wild mess.

The good news for Trump is, though, that there isn't a lot of middle ground for him to hold on to. People pretty much already have their minds made up.

 

[Mycroft]

What I want is for Mueller's investigation to proceed unimpeded and for congress to weigh the evidence when it is complete.

Who asked you?

 

[AGENT J]

Reluctantly, Rep. Nadler is right. We should hold on to trump as an example of how not to to govern/boogyman. BUTT! …that doesn’t prevent New York State from going after him and his son-in-law. :2wave:

<Rep. Jerry Nadler warned Monday that any impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump that begin in the new, Democrat-controlled House of Representatives would need to clear an obvious partisan bar.>


<Nadler, who is to take over as chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and would oversee a potential impeachment process, outlined in an interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” a three-pronged test that he said would make for a legitimate impeachment proceeding, including that the offenses in question must be so grave and the evidence so clear that even some supporters of the president concede that impeachment is necessary.>


<Once it’s determined that a president has committed an impeachable offense, Nadler said, lawmakers need to consider whether the offense will “rise to the gravity where it’s worth putting the country through the trauma of an impeachment proceeding.”>


<He indicated that he had yet to see evidence that impeaching Trump was warranted, but said that special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election as well as future investigations into Trump by Nadler’s Judiciary Committee could yield material for an impeachment proceeding.>
<“If Mueller shows us that the president has committed impeachable offenses, we'll have to make judgments as to how serious those impeachable offenses are and whether we should undertake an impeachment. If we see evidence of impeachable offenses not from Mueller the same question will arise,” he said, noting that not all crimes are considered an impeachable offense and vice versa.>


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/26/nadler-evidence-impeachable-offense-trump-1014702

If any president commits crimes that are impeachable and that can be proven then they should be impeached :shrug:

if that hurts any snowflakes, to bad, it will not tear the country apart.

The nutters are in the minority. The nutters with TDS that wouldnt impeach trump no matter what and the nutters that want to impeach him based on what side of the bed he woke up on dont matter. they are all morons.

 

[JasperL]

It will be worse. Pure and unhinged hatted of all things republican, conservative, and Trump.

The Mueller investigation is staffed by some of the best prosecutors in the country, and they prefer to try people with rock solid evidence, and they have records backing up their ability to gather that evidence when it's available and to use it to get high profile convictions. If you think what's coming will have anything resembling the he said/she said Kavanaugh mess, you're going to be really surprised. Either they have nothing, which we'll find out, or they'll have it documented a dozen ways, from many witnesses, backed up with paper trails a mile high. I doubt we'll see anything in between.

Look at what they produced with Manafort - that's a good idea of what kind of case we'll see.

 

[chuckiechan]

The Mueller investigation is staffed by some of the best prosecutors in the country, and they prefer to try people with rock solid evidence, and they have records backing up their ability to gather that evidence when it's available and to use it to get high profile convictions. If you think what's coming will have anything resembling the he said/she said Kavanaugh mess, you're going to be really surprised. Either they have nothing, which we'll find out, or they'll have it documented a dozen ways, from many witnesses, backed up with paper trails a mile high. I doubt we'll see anything in between.

Look at what they produced with Manafort - that's a good idea of what kind of case we'll see.

Their answer to “he said, he said” is a perjury charge. That how the FBI makes its cases, it makes you face financial ruin if you dont fold, and often makes you keep your plea bargain secret because its so corrupt.

Either way, let Mueller throw is report out there and we can move on, get a new AG and appoint a Special Fisherman for Clinton crimes.

 

[JasperL]

Their answer to “he said, he said” is a perjury charge. That how the FBI makes its cases, it makes you face financial ruin if you dont fold, and often makes you keep your plea bargain secret because its so corrupt.

What's amazing is now that the FBI and DoJ are after Dear Leader, of course the nation's law enforcement authorities are just a bunch of corrupt jack booted thugs.

Either way, let Mueller throw is report out there and we can move on, get a new AG and appoint a Special Fisherman for Clinton crimes.

I will agree we are just guessing until Mueller finishes his tasks and issues a report. What's a mystery is why you think the jack booted thugs in FBI and DoJ will give you the result you want with Clinton. And if they do indict here, it's only because they're corrupt people who will use nothing but dirty tricks to get Hillary indicted, because that's what they're doing with Trump's people. Or will it be totally different if they're going after Hillary? Will you believe them then, so you'll only trust them if they're not targeting right wingers, who are all innocent of course. I'm not clear....

 

[Parrish]

And? This country has been in need of a severe, unrelenting round of introspection that we didn't undergo with Nixon (and that idiotic pardon) and Reagan.

Rip off the scab so that the would can properly heal.

But that "idiotic pardon" proved that Nixon was guilty.

 

[Donc]

It's about time the left woke up and wanted to start having actual policies instead of just being the anti-Trump resistance.

The infrastructure needs some love.:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Nap]

I appreciate the sentiment, but the problem is putting a nice thought into actual practice. At the national level, we spend money on just a few really big things - Medicare/Medicaid, SS, military (that's about 3/4) then everything else.

How do we move Medicare and SS to the states? VA benefits? Even Medicaid?

It isn't about spending money, it is about trying to impose values on the entire country when different regions have different cultures and the idea that legislation applies to different regions equally. For instance, $15 dollar minimum wage may work and be beneficial for most of California however in a state like Mississippi it would be catastrophic. Carbon taxes driving up the prices of gas in New York may just be a slight hindrance due to public transportation, in Texas and other more rural areas you would see riots like in France as many would no longer able to afford to live.

 

[JasperL]

It isn't about spending money, it is about trying to impose values on the entire country when different regions have different cultures and the idea that legislation applies to different regions equally. For instance, $15 dollar minimum wage may work and be beneficial for most of California however in a state like Mississippi it would be catastrophic. Carbon taxes driving up the prices of gas in New York may just be a slight hindrance due to public transportation, in Texas and other more rural areas you would see riots like in France as many would no longer able to afford to live.

But we don't have and aren't likely to get $15 mw anytime soon.

The point about a carbon tax is why we have a national government, though, and an EPA. A carbon tax is intended to address climate change, and if it's only done in a few states, is worthless. Before the EPA the big polluters shopped for lax rules and put up shop there, creating a race to the bottom among other problems, among them that pollution doesn't respect state boundaries, and coal burned in Tennessee blows right over to NC and VA and SC depending on the wind. Water from a famously filthy paper plant on the NC side of the NC/TN border fouled the Pigeon River in Tennessee which was fine with NC regulators because their people weren't affected.

 

[TurtleDude]

I hate Trump. I try not to hate the people who voted for him. That is hard sometimes. Nevertheless, I do not want Congress to impeach him unless the Mueller Report proves that he broke the law conspiring with Russia to defeat Hillary Clinton, and unless his approval rating dips comfortably below 30%.

A low rating for Trump will probably require a sharp and deep recession. If it had not been for the inflationary recession of 1974 I think Nixon could have survived Watergate. The recession put the American people into a bad mood.

As long as the economy works for them, Trump's supporters will forgive anything he does and has done. In the growing polarization of the United States, one can see the fault lines building for a civil war, or perhaps the peaceful breakup of the United States. I want Trump to fall hard, taking the Repubublican Party down with him, and discrediting what he stands for.

sounds like what you really want is a civil war. or you want a one party dictatorship

 

[DiAnna]

If the Dems jump the gun and go for impeachment before the various congressional committees have done their own investigation and before Mueller's Report is released, I'll consider it nothing more than the same partisan harassment the Repubs used to impeach Bill Clinton. I will be strongly against it.

If, OTOH, the Dems do their due diligence in investigating, and if Mueller's Report is released and contains strong evidence and/or proof that Trump committed conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury or any other impeachable offense, then damn right the Dems should impeach his ass! I know the Senate won't remove him from office, but the day after he's booted from the WH, there will be a line in the Rose Garden of FBI officials and attorneys with indictments, subpoenas and handcuffs.

And yeah. I'll cheer.

 

[Nap]

But we don't have and aren't likely to get $15 mw anytime soon.

The point about a carbon tax is why we have a national government, though, and an EPA. A carbon tax is intended to address climate change, and if it's only done in a few states, is worthless. Before the EPA the big polluters shopped for lax rules and put up shop there, creating a race to the bottom among other problems, among them that pollution doesn't respect state boundaries, and coal burned in Tennessee blows right over to NC and VA and SC depending on the wind. Water from a famously filthy paper plant on the NC side of the NC/TN border fouled the Pigeon River in Tennessee which was fine with NC regulators because their people weren't affected.

The 15$ minimum wage was merely an example, is there not a large portion of the Democratic base calling for a national $15 minimum wage?

Don't even get me started on the EPA (and the various other 3 letter agencies that Congress has delegated their duty to.), and I agree with you there are some instances in which there needs to be regulations that need to be done at the federal level (particularly ones like you have expressed that cause externalities ) . As far as the Carbon tax and it's uselessness if not imposed at the federal level, that same logic also applies at the world stage. If there are countries that are going to be ramping up usage then the US imposing such taxes would ultimately be useless as well and causing major economic hardship to the citizenry. Democrats like to say they are for the "working class" but legislation like that would be incredibly detrimental to us. In France a gallon of gas is up to $7.00, do you even realize the turmoil that would cause here if the price of gas was artificially raised to that level? It would devastate the working class and poor and I doubt they would sit silently so some people could feel they are saving the world.

 

[Phys251]

Trump is already tearing the country apart, as is our poorly designed two party duopoly. Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job, and we survived that. if Trump committed a serious crime and is not impeached, that would also tear the country apart.

now, is it a good idea for Democrats to start impeachment hearings right away absent Mueller's report? no, that would be a poor idea. it should also be pointed out that there's very little chance that he'll be convicted in the senate even if the crime is serious, as he owns the former Republican party now.

Kicking out tRump is not the goal of impeachment. If it happens that's just a bonus.

One goal of impeachment would be to neuter tRump. That's what impeachment did to Andrew Johnson and, in a way, to Clinton. Politically he survived but his brand was forever tarnished.

Another goal is to get every single member of Congress on record as to where they stand on what would be the most serious allegations that any President of the United States has ever faced. Coming down on the wrong side of that vote could have ramifications far beyond just the next couple of elections.

 

[SmartCat]

sounds like what you really want is a civil war. or you want a one party dictatorship

I want the Republican party to either cease to exist, like the Federalists and Whig Parties did, or I want it to become a permanent minority that is incapable of stopping the move to democratic socialism.

It will happen. Every day Republicans die of old age while most young people register as Democrats. Most Democrats prefer socialism to capitalism.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Oh...be honest. Don't you REALLY wish the Dems would go after Trump?

Any thinking American realizes that, no matter how justified, an impeachment conviction would be the last thing to wish for.

Nixon resigned because he had enough sense to realize that no matter what else happened his administration could no longer govern.

IF the Mueller investigation uncovers something egregiously impeachable nothing indicates that our present narcissist will demonstrate the same sensibility.

Therefore the best outcome would be something that finally shows trump for the con-man he is and proves to his supporters their support is unjustified. Once the emperor is shown to not be wearing clothes let the chips fall where they may.

NO, I "don't really" wish the "Dems" will go after trump. I would like to see him have a "Face In the Crowd" (Andy Griffiths character) moment and by his own words prove to the world what a fraud he is. That would be poetic justice, and the least trauma for our Nation.

 

[Helix]

Kicking out tRump is not the goal of impeachment. If it happens that's just a bonus.

One goal of impeachment would be to neuter tRump. That's what impeachment did to Andrew Johnson and, in a way, to Clinton. Politically he survived but his brand was forever tarnished.

Another goal is to get every single member of Congress on record as to where they stand on what would be the most serious allegations that any President of the United States has ever faced. Coming down on the wrong side of that vote could have ramifications far beyond just the next couple of elections.

A lot of it is going to depend on the severity of the crimes, assuming that there are any. I don't think it's a stretch to speculate that his supporters will be willing to dismiss a lot of charges as just an attempt to remove their leader.

 

[tres borrachos]

What the OP boils down to is some Democrat finally realized "Hey! We can't impeach Trump just because! We actually need a legal reason!"

It's good to know at least 1 House Rep is using his brain cells.

Did you even pay attention to any of the people who are crying for impeachment? Or did you even read the OP?

What he said is what everyone already knew. Surely this wasn't an epiphany for you.