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Home Births

kerussll

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Sorry all, but this is going to be a bit of a rant. I am an RN in a neonatal intensive care unit. Our unit has been experiencing a boom of home births gone wrong, (not an entirely rare thing on my unit) or babies who were harmed because their mothers refused a c-section for too long. (Even more common). It just makes me so unbelievably angry. These children all were very near death after birth, and most will have lasting brain damage if they live at all. The little boy's mother I took care of last night was warned not to have a home birth because the baby was too big. So what does she do? She has a home birth with a doula. The baby's head comes out, but his shoulders get stuck. Dad picks mom up and drives her to the hospital where the baby's shoulders are both broken and he's ripped out. No heartbeat for 20 minutes, then he's finally resuscitated. He's alive now and going home soon, but he'll never be who he could have been. Paralyzed, severely brain damaged. He will never eat except through a tube, and will never walk or talk. There are many more stories I could tell, but I found this one especially upsetting.

And all for what? So mothers could feel superior and boast they had a "natural home birth" and were able to avoid money-grubbing hospitals and doctors? Because all hospitals want to do is cut you open so they can charge you more money. Then pump you full of harmful drugs that will hurt your baby. And vaccinate them against hepatitis B because we are in cahoots with the government who are being bribed by drug companies who only want to poison children. Then nurses like me will force feed your baby formula because we're all bribed by formula companies and want to sabotage your desire to breastfeed. REALLY? I've heard all this and more at work from people who really believe it. There is a culture of fear and distrust of medicine in this country and it only seems to be getting worse. It seems to be the worst in the area of childbirth where the all natural crowd is full of judgment and misinformation for expectant mothers.

I don't know what needs to be done, but I would love to see a change. I wish people could realize that healthcare workers really do want what is best for them, and aren't trying to trick them or make extra money off of them. Thoughts?
 

Paschendale

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Home births are how we did it when 10% of women died in childbirth.
 

kerussll

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Home births are how we did it when 10% of women died in childbirth.
That's true. It's also dangerous for the women, but that's not really my area of expertise. I don't like it, but I feel more ok with someone accepting risks for themselves. These babies didn't have a chance.
 

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The problem is they hear all these stories about home births going just fine. After all, most home births DO go just fine. The point of giving birth at a hospital is in case things DON’T go fine. It is a form of insurance. I just don’t understand why someone would take an unnecessary risk by doing it at home if they don’t have to.
 

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Sorry all, but this is going to be a bit of a rant. I am an RN in a neonatal intensive care unit. Our unit has been experiencing a boom of home births gone wrong, (not an entirely rare thing on my unit) or babies who were harmed because their mothers refused a c-section for too long. (Even more common). It just makes me so unbelievably angry. These children all were very near death after birth, and most will have lasting brain damage if they live at all. The little boy's mother I took care of last night was warned not to have a home birth because the baby was too big. So what does she do? She has a home birth with a doula. The baby's head comes out, but his shoulders get stuck. Dad picks mom up and drives her to the hospital where the baby's shoulders are both broken and he's ripped out. No heartbeat for 20 minutes, then he's finally resuscitated. He's alive now and going home soon, but he'll never be who he could have been. Paralyzed, severely brain damaged. He will never eat except through a tube, and will never walk or talk. There are many more stories I could tell, but I found this one especially upsetting.

And all for what? So mothers could feel superior and boast they had a "natural home birth" and were able to avoid money-grubbing hospitals and doctors? Because all hospitals want to do is cut you open so they can charge you more money. Then pump you full of harmful drugs that will hurt your baby. And vaccinate them against hepatitis B because we are in cahoots with the government who are being bribed by drug companies who only want to poison children. Then nurses like me will force feed your baby formula because we're all bribed by formula companies and want to sabotage your desire to breastfeed. REALLY? I've heard all this and more at work from people who really believe it. There is a culture of fear and distrust of medicine in this country and it only seems to be getting worse. It seems to be the worst in the area of childbirth where the all natural crowd is full of judgment and misinformation for expectant mothers.

I don't know what needs to be done, but I would love to see a change. I wish people could realize that healthcare workers really do want what is best for them, and aren't trying to trick them or make extra money off of them. Thoughts?
My thought is that you very eloquently express a real problem. I wonder if you should share it in a Letter to the Editor of your local newspaper.

The situation you describe is just heartbreaking -- and infuriating. So sad for baby.

And mom may well have a go at suing the hospital or doctors -- or both.
 

kerussll

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My thought is that you very eloquently express a real problem. I wonder if you should share it in a Letter to the Editor of your local newspaper.

The situation you describe is just heartbreaking -- and infuriating. So sad for baby.

And mom may well have a go at suing the hospital or doctors -- or both.
Well thank you. I did hear a rumor they were thinking of suing for "wrongful life" which apparently is a thing? They resuscitated him for so long, and we don't really know how long he went without oxygen while they were at home or driving to the hospital, etc. Maybe they should have called it earlier and just let him go? I don't know. Maybe they could sue the doula who was not prepared to handle such a situation. (I don't believe they have a medical license?)

A lot of what doctors and nurses do is unfortunately (but necessary) to cover our asses. If a doctor agrees to a vaginal delivery and the baby has shoulder dystocia, he could be sued for not predicting the baby was too big for that and recommending a c-section. I knew a doctor who had been sued for exactly that situation and the baby wasn't even very big. I don't think there was any way he could have known, but he lost the case. So unfortunately a lot of c-sections get done that probably aren't strictly necessary. It's just doctors erring on the side of caution because they don't want to get sued. So I get that mothers are suspicious when they're told they need a c-section. But at the same time, you have to realize that there is a danger to you and your baby during birth! There's just no reason to not be in a safe place when you do it!
 

kerussll

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The problem is they hear all these stories about home births going just fine. After all, most home births DO go just fine. The point of giving birth at a hospital is in case things DON’T go fine. It is a form of insurance. I just don’t understand why someone would take an unnecessary risk by doing it at home if they don’t have to.
That's exactly how I feel about it. You could also not put a seat belt on your child and things would probably be fine. But WHY? :doh
 

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I think some people are just too granola and/or cheap and/or poor but there is no freaking way--none, not a one--that I would have ever let my wife deliver at home even if I had to hog tie her and have a tow truck wench her out the bedroom window by her ankles like a rusted out clunker. That said, my wife was like "Whatever drugs you normally give, I want two fingers worth and a beer backer" both times.
 

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Sorry all, but this is going to be a bit of a rant. I am an RN in a neonatal intensive care unit. Our unit has been experiencing a boom of home births gone wrong, (not an entirely rare thing on my unit) or babies who were harmed because their mothers refused a c-section for too long. (Even more common). It just makes me so unbelievably angry. These children all were very near death after birth, and most will have lasting brain damage if they live at all. The little boy's mother I took care of last night was warned not to have a home birth because the baby was too big. So what does she do? She has a home birth with a doula. The baby's head comes out, but his shoulders get stuck. Dad picks mom up and drives her to the hospital where the baby's shoulders are both broken and he's ripped out. No heartbeat for 20 minutes, then he's finally resuscitated. He's alive now and going home soon, but he'll never be who he could have been. Paralyzed, severely brain damaged. He will never eat except through a tube, and will never walk or talk. There are many more stories I could tell, but I found this one especially upsetting.

And all for what? So mothers could feel superior and boast they had a "natural home birth" and were able to avoid money-grubbing hospitals and doctors? Because all hospitals want to do is cut you open so they can charge you more money. Then pump you full of harmful drugs that will hurt your baby. And vaccinate them against hepatitis B because we are in cahoots with the government who are being bribed by drug companies who only want to poison children. Then nurses like me will force feed your baby formula because we're all bribed by formula companies and want to sabotage your desire to breastfeed. REALLY? I've heard all this and more at work from people who really believe it. There is a culture of fear and distrust of medicine in this country and it only seems to be getting worse. It seems to be the worst in the area of childbirth where the all natural crowd is full of judgment and misinformation for expectant mothers.

I don't know what needs to be done, but I would love to see a change. I wish people could realize that healthcare workers really do want what is best for them, and aren't trying to trick them or make extra money off of them. Thoughts?
I guess it's a personal choice to take that risk, but personally I would prefer to be in the hospital with medical personnel, equipment, medication, etc. in case something went wrong.
 

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The OP asserts a utopian healthcare and hospital system that ignorant people refuse to accept.

As a countering point:
Up to 98,000 UnnecessaryHospital Deaths Occur Every Year . . . And the Band Plays On

http://www.americanhs.com/Resources/articles/pdf/Article-JRJ-98,000deaths.pdf

There are also extreme versions of infections and viruses raging thru some hospitals.

In addition, there are hospitals that practice horrific practices against women they see as poor - specifically deciding she shouldn't have more children and then while she is under the influence of drugs and in terribly birthing pain to sign something that she will be permanently sterilized at the same time.

We know a couple for which this was done to the women, who didn't even remember signing anything nor did the husband know any of it until later too. They has both planned a large family and that was literally cut out of her while she was drugged out of her mind. Their marriage shattered as she went into permanent depression having been so multilated. In a routine social do-gooder practice towards what they saw a poor people (she wasn't), they surgically and permanently multilated her, shattered her future and psychologically destroyed her. Since it was her barely legible signature under those drugs she even blamed herself for ruining everything for her, her husband and her family. She's since just disappeared, walking away for her children.

Home births IF a QUALIFIED midwife present and the woman rational are likely far safer. A qualified, licensed midwife may NOT undertake high risk births, can recognize them, and avoids many of the risks, dangers and certainly costs of hospital births.

Outrageous as it may seem to you, many people are not able to afford a hospital birth and are not willing to have their credit destroyed and overall economics shattered for charges as extreme as $50 for an aspirin.

I have little doubt for every home birth and alternative health choice with a bad outcome you name, I bet I could find 10 hospital horror stories.

Don't misread me, but both births my wife gave were hospital born in induced premie births in trauma units for severe known (particularly the second) life risks to her and the fetus. Overall, medical personnel have been GREAT towards her for any and everything. But for those same hospitals, I could tell horror story after horror story for treatment of "lesser" people. In one instance of someone we know quite well, twice the hospital told her that her father was brain-dead urging pulling the plug. Both times she refused and both times he revived and is still alive, conscious, cognitive and at home. BUT he was a charity care and it seems the hospital was tired of him tying up a bed and costing them money - a socially undesirable old alcoholic.

Nor are the medical experts always correct in child birth. I could tell a story where someone absolutely refused to accept the expert Dr's and nurses advice, and their newborn lived because of it - refusing to agree the newborn was dead and thus the father refusing to stop doing CPR/mouth-to-month as they tried to insist and even make him stop. After about 25 minutes the newborn revived and is fully healthy. It is only recently birthing centers have been willing to accept that newborns sometimes can go a very long without oxygen or breathing as some nature defense that otherwise people don't have.

I could tell other stories on both sides. You tell only one side asserting that hospitals are perfection treating people perfectly. They aren't.
 
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joko104

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joko104

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Other issues include hospitals that have the practice of immediately or almost immediately taking the newborn away, which some believe permanently lessens the bond between mother (and father) and the child. For many animals in nature, if you take a newborn away at birth or even just touch it, the mother will fully reject it to just abandon it to die. In most regards, in hospitals everything is done their way and their way only - and sometimes just for practical reasons of dealing with endless waves of people for which individuality is considered irrelevant.
 

kerussll

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The OP asserts a utopian healthcare and hospital system that ignorant people refuse to accept.

As a countering point:
Up to 98,000 UnnecessaryHospital Deaths Occur Every Year . . . And the Band Plays On

http://www.americanhs.com/Resources/articles/pdf/Article-JRJ-98,000deaths.pdf

There are also extreme versions of infections and viruses raging thru some hospitals.

In addition, there are hospitals that practice horrific practices against women they see as poor - specifically deciding she shouldn't have more children and then while she is under the influence of drugs and in terribly birthing pain to sign something that she will be permanently sterilized at the same time.

We know a couple for which this was done to the women, who didn't even remember signing anything nor did the husband know any of it until later too. They has both planned a large family and that was literally cut out of her while she was drugged out of her mind. Their marriage shattered as she went into permanent depression having been so multilated. In a routine social do-gooder practice towards what they saw a poor people (she wasn't), they surgically and permanently multilated her, shattered her future and psychologically destroyed her. Since it was her barely legible signature under those drugs she even blamed herself for ruining everything for her, her husband and her family. She's since just disappeared, walking away for her children.

Home births IF a QUALIFIED midwife present and the woman rational are likely far safer. A qualified, licensed midwife may NOT undertake high risk births, can recognize them, and avoids many of the risks, dangers and certainly costs of hospital births.

Outrageous as it may seem to you, many people are not able to afford a hospital birth and are not willing to have their credit destroyed and overall economics shattered for charges as extreme as $50 for an aspirin.

I have little doubt for every home birth and alternative health choice with a bad outcome you name, I bet I could find 10 hospital horror stories.

Don't misread me, but both births my wife gave were hospital born in induced premie births in trauma units for severe known (particularly the second) life risks to her and the fetus. Overall, medical personnel have been GREAT towards her for any and everything. But for those same hospitals, I could tell horror story after horror story for treatment of "lesser" people. In one instance of someone we know quite well, twice the hospital told her that her father was brain-dead urging pulling the plug. Both times she refused and both times he revived and is still alive, conscious, cognitive and at home. BUT he was a charity care and it seems the hospital was tired of him tying up a bed and costing them money - a socially undesirable old alcoholic.

Nor are the medical experts always correct in child birth. I could tell a story where someone absolutely refused to accept the expert Dr's and nurses advice, and their newborn lived because of it - refusing to agree the newborn was dead and thus the father refusing to stop doing CPR/mouth-to-month as they tried to insist and even make him stop. After about 25 minutes the newborn revived and is fully healthy. It is only recently birthing centers have been willing to accept that newborns sometimes can go a very long without oxygen or breathing as some nature defense that otherwise people don't have.

I could tell other stories on both sides. You tell only one side asserting that hospitals are perfection treating people perfectly. They aren't.
Wow, long post. I'll try to address all of it. No, I don't believe we have a utopian healthcare system and you can read my post about unnecessary c-sections. That's the way the system works right now, and until doctors aren't at risk for being sued for the unexpected, they will err on the side of caution to lessen their liability. Doctors do not prefer elective c-sections because they are bad for business and not the best thing for their patients (mother or baby). A high c-section rate is not looked favorably upon when women are choosing where to deliver and that's something hospitals want to be able to advertise.

Unnecessary hospital deaths do occur, yes. But unnecessary home deaths also occur. Facts are facts and you cannot in good sense claim that a home birth unprepared for an emergency resuscitation or surgical intervention is safer. The hospital horror stories you are talking about, we don't see. That's not an exaggeration. I can't think of any baby I've ever seen come to my unit as a result of medical malpractice. But I have seen too many come to me from home births. If you have any evidence that more babies are harmed in hospitals than during home births please share!

As for the story of your friend being sterilized against her will: If the story really is exactly as you put it, they should absolutely sue that hospital. It is not common, or even legal, practice to recommend someone be sterilized for no medical reason. I don't know how to put this nicely, but I don't believe this story.

And as for the hospital wanting to pull the plug on your friend's father because he was costing the hospital money...that doesn't make sense. The doctors and nurses who are in charge of his care would not make a cent more if he died. In fact, he was not an unusual case at all as a great deal of our patients don't make the hospital any money. Do you think they try to pull the plug on all of them? Nope, instead they charge $50 for tylenol to make up for their losses and still turn a profit. On the flip side, I've had parents accuse us of keeping babies in the hospital longer than necessary to make more money off of them. When in reality, if we keep a patient longer than necessary, the insurance companies or medicaid won't pay for that extra time there.

The way we pay for healthcare in this country is broken and it needs to change, but that's for another thread. This thread is about home births being unnecessarily risky, which they are.

And once again no, I'm not asserting hospitals are perfect. Only safer for your wife and baby than being born at home. I hope I've cleared that up for you.
 

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Study: US loses billions on unnecessary C-sections

Study: US loses billions on unnecessary C-sections - The Hill's Healthwatch

C-sections are convenience and profitable to doctors and hospitals. They can schedule the birth exactly, no relatives to bother with, and no waiting for labor not having to put up with screaming women, and get to bill for the surgery.
Yes, elective scheduled c-sections could be convenient and profitable for the hospital but they are not recommended by O.B.s who value their reputation or their patients. They also need to be consented to by the woman. I'm not sure why a woman would want to do that, but apparently a lot do. And trust me, I've been to plenty of c-sections and you still have to deal with the relatives in the room:)
 

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Other issues include hospitals that have the practice of immediately or almost immediately taking the newborn away, which some believe permanently lessens the bond between mother (and father) and the child. For many animals in nature, if you take a newborn away at birth or even just touch it, the mother will fully reject it to just abandon it to die. In most regards, in hospitals everything is done their way and their way only - and sometimes just for practical reasons of dealing with endless waves of people for which individuality is considered irrelevant.
I believe this was the practice years ago, but certainly is not common now. (Unless there's a medical reason for taking the baby away. In which case, that's me whisking the kid off to be helped out :D) The bolded part is another common misconception and I'm glad you brought up. It's absolutely not true. You consent for your treatment and you control your hospital stay. I've seen parents come in with 20 page detailed birth plans and if within a hospital's scope of practice they're always followed to the letter. Yes, you can bounce on a yoga ball during labor. No, we won't take your baby out of your room for the duration of your stay. No, I won't offer you any pain relief other than massage. Yes, you can pray over your baby's umbilical cord before you cut it. Whatever floats your boat!

When I was in nursing school my mother (who doesn't have a background in medicine) asked me what we do when a patient won't take his medicine. "Do you have to spend a lot of your time making people take their pills?" No, Mom they're not criminals in a psych ward! After I've explained what it's for and verify they don't want it, I check a little box on the computer that says the patient refused it and go about my day. :doh
 

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Yes, elective scheduled c-sections could be convenient and profitable for the hospital but they are not recommended by O.B.s who value their reputation or their patients. They also need to be consented to by the woman. I'm not sure why a woman would want to do that, but apparently a lot do. And trust me, I've been to plenty of c-sections and you still have to deal with the relatives in the room:)
I'm a medical transcriptionist, and I type about this all the time. A lot of women who have had a C-section are just afraid to go through with VBAC I think, so they always opt for the C-section instead. It seems as if you've already had a C-section, then the doctors are more apt to repeat that procedure than if you had prior vaginal deliveries.
 

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Sorry all, but this is going to be a bit of a rant. I am an RN in a neonatal intensive care unit. Our unit has been experiencing a boom of home births gone wrong, (not an entirely rare thing on my unit) or babies who were harmed because their mothers refused a c-section for too long. (Even more common). It just makes me so unbelievably angry. These children all were very near death after birth, and most will have lasting brain damage if they live at all. The little boy's mother I took care of last night was warned not to have a home birth because the baby was too big. So what does she do? She has a home birth with a doula. The baby's head comes out, but his shoulders get stuck. Dad picks mom up and drives her to the hospital where the baby's shoulders are both broken and he's ripped out. No heartbeat for 20 minutes, then he's finally resuscitated. He's alive now and going home soon, but he'll never be who he could have been. Paralyzed, severely brain damaged. He will never eat except through a tube, and will never walk or talk. There are many more stories I could tell, but I found this one especially upsetting.

And all for what? So mothers could feel superior and boast they had a "natural home birth" and were able to avoid money-grubbing hospitals and doctors? Because all hospitals want to do is cut you open so they can charge you more money. Then pump you full of harmful drugs that will hurt your baby. And vaccinate them against hepatitis B because we are in cahoots with the government who are being bribed by drug companies who only want to poison children. Then nurses like me will force feed your baby formula because we're all bribed by formula companies and want to sabotage your desire to breastfeed. REALLY? I've heard all this and more at work from people who really believe it. There is a culture of fear and distrust of medicine in this country and it only seems to be getting worse. It seems to be the worst in the area of childbirth where the all natural crowd is full of judgment and misinformation for expectant mothers.

I don't know what needs to be done, but I would love to see a change. I wish people could realize that healthcare workers really do want what is best for them, and aren't trying to trick them or make extra money off of them. Thoughts?
I've had four children - nothing but risky pregnancies and deliveries.

You know what?
Doctors are dishonest, don't explain true risks, and mothers are left with vague suggestions of 'the doom that might happen' (if even that much) - but they aren't left with enough specifics to actually get them to overcome their FEARS or CONCERNS. They are not well informed - about anything.

All aspects of pregnancy are:
1) Watered down - it's natural, it's no big deal.
2) Ignored - it's natural, it's no big deal.
3) Dealt with quietly - not involving Mom, not informing Dad, etc.
4) When you do ask questions, you will likely get an answer that's washed out, lightweight, and concerned for your sensitive feelings more than honesty.

People don't trust OBGYN's because OGBYN's can't be trusted to be brutally honest. The DANGERS of birth and pregnancy are not DISCUSSED with anyone.

Example:
What happens when you push during delivery when they tell you NOT TO?

- I never found out from my own actions and I was never told what could happen - I overheard a NURSE complaining through a door while I was at the clinic, pregnant with my 4th child, about a patient: "well she pushed when they weren't ready and she had a rectal prolapse" (paraphrasing to put it nicely)

OH! I had no idea that's what could happen . . . so after 3 kids and experiencing all sorts of problems I never knew why on earth they tell you to 'stop pushing' when the baby's almost born. Mid hard labor - that's not when you think to ask about that ****. It just irritates you when they say it, and never once do they say WHY. So - it made no sense to me, never once did a nurse or doctor ever dare TELL me what the real concerns were and what could happen.

I guarantee you when they said to her "Don't push" she didn't think "Oh, I might permanently injure myself to a point of requiring surgery" - and in fact, it feels unnatural not to when you're at the brink of delivery. So I consider the tight-lipped delivery-room nature to be directly at fault for failing to inform the patient of the issues.

So - I promise you that women like my sister and the one you're talking about had no idea that "the baby's too big" would mean "the baby might get stuck and become permanently paralyzed" . . . etc.

I guarantee you they thought "It's delivery, it's been done for thousands of years, it's no big deal" - and DOCTORS being hush-hush are a large part of that. Unless you're in the medical field or have experienced it first hand - you have no reason to KNOW of the risks.

...You want to know why parents are stupid?
...and I want to know why when I DID ask questions - I received light weight, false answers in return. . . they opt for the "I didn't want to emotionally upset you" - when OBVIOUSLY they should.
 
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ChrisL

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I've had four children - nothing but risky pregnancies and deliveries.

You know what?
Doctors are dishonest, don't explain true risks, and mothers are left with vague suggestions of 'the doom that might happen' (if even that much) - but they aren't left with enough specifics to actually get them to overcome their FEARS or CONCERNS. They are not well informed - about anything.

All aspects of pregnancy are:
1) Watered down - it's natural, it's no big deal.
2) Ignored - it's natural, it's no big deal.
3) Dealt with quietly - not involving Mom, not informing Dad, etc.
4) When you do ask questions, you will likely get an answer that's washed out, lightweight, and concerned for your sensitive feelings more than honesty.

People don't trust OBGYN's because OGBYN's can't be trusted to be brutally honest. The DANGERS of birth and pregnancy are not DISCUSSED with anyone.

Example:
What happens when you push during delivery when they tell you NOT TO?

- I never found out from my own actions and I was never told what could happen - I overheard a NURSE complaining through a door while I was at the clinic, pregnant with my 4th child, about a patient: "well she pushed when they weren't ready and she had a rectal prolapse" (paraphrasing to put it nicely)

OH! I had no idea that's what could happen . . . so after 3 kids and experiencing all sorts of problems I never knew why on earth they tell you to 'stop pushing' when the baby's almost born. Mid hard labor - that's not when you think to ask about that ****. It just irritates you when they say it, and never once do they say WHY. So - it made no sense to me, never once did a nurse or doctor ever dare TELL me what the real concerns were and what could happen.

So - I promise you that women like my sister and the one you're talking about had no idea that "the baby's too big" would mean "the baby might get stuck and become permanently paralyzed" . . . etc.

I guarantee you they thought "It's delivery, it's been done for thousands of years, it's no big deal" - and DOCTORS being hush-hush are a large part of that. Unless you're in the medical field or have experienced it first hand - you have no reason to KNOW of the risks.
My experiences with doctors of my own and the MOST of the docs I type for are the complete opposite. In most cases a surgery is going to be MUCH more risky than a natural birth, barring complications.

Not to mention, once you've been opened up, you are much more prone to infection, later on down the line developing extremely painful adhesions inside your body, among many other complications related to surgeries.

Normally, they tell you not to push before you're completely dilated and the team is scrubbed and ready because they don't want you to tear. Of course a rectal prolapse and other such complications do sometimes occur. Nothing is perfect.

Still, I would say that a natural childbirth under "normal" circumstances is much better for you and the baby than a cesarean section.
 

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My experiences with doctors of my own and the MOST of the docs I type for are the complete opposite. In most cases a surgery is going to be MUCH more risky than a natural birth, barring complications.

Not to mention, once you've been opened up, you are much more prone to infection, later on down the line developing extremely painful adhesions inside your body, among many other complications related to surgeries.

Normally, they tell you not to push before you're completely dilated and the team is scrubbed and ready because they don't want you to tear. Of course a rectal prolapse and other such complications do sometimes occur. Nothing is perfect.

Still, I would say that a natural childbirth under "normal" circumstances is much better for you and the baby than a cesarean section.
(I realized after writing I didn't really need to quote you)

Everything has it's risks - in order for someone to make an informed decision they have to be given more knowledge and a wider platform to speak from.

My approach to pregnancy: I didn't care - until I was far along and developed issues. I was so focused on making it through the pregnancy in one piece, I didn't even think about the potential hazards during delivery and after - and they were never broached by my OBGYN.

But even then - I had no intention of delivering at home, my first two deliveries were done blind on my part. . . next two were with more knowledge from experience and research.

My sister, though - made a much bigger deal about delivery. She delivered at a hospital, but only after having a doula come to the home during her early labor (you know - the stuff I've done ALONE and with my HUSBAND) . . . I don't know why her husband couldn't keep tabs on early labor contractions, but he didn't.

Ah - epidurals are another example of poorly informed decisions. You know - they can have long term negative effects on both mother and child? And I didn't even know what it REALLY was until Jack said "tell me when you have your next contraction . . . and hold still" . . . and only by asking him questions did I know exactly HOW it was administered - and WHERE. Considering they can permanently disable a woman, you'd think more OBGYN's would be all 'you should really know the risks...'
 

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(I realized after writing I didn't really need to quote you)

Everything has it's risks - in order for someone to make an informed decision they have to be given more knowledge and a wider platform to speak from.

My approach to pregnancy: I didn't care - until I was far along and developed issues. I was so focused on making it through the pregnancy in one piece, I didn't even think about the potential hazards during delivery and after - and they were never broached by my OBGYN.

But even then - I had no intention of delivering at home, my first two deliveries were done blind on my part. . . next two were with more knowledge from experience and research.

My sister, though - made a much bigger deal about delivery. She delivered at a hospital, but only after having a doula come to the home during her early labor (you know - the stuff I've done ALONE and with my HUSBAND) . . . I don't know why her husband couldn't keep tabs on early labor contractions, but he didn't.

Ah - epidurals are another example of poorly informed decisions. You know - they can have long term negative effects on both mother and child? And I didn't even know what it REALLY was until Jack said "tell me when you have your next contraction . . . and hold still" . . . and only by asking him questions did I know exactly HOW it was administered - and WHERE. Considering they can permanently disable a woman, you'd think more OBGYN's would be all 'you should really know the risks...'
Of course, there are some doctors who really seem to think they are Gods and know what's best, but they are not the majority. I don't claim to know every doctor, just speaking from my own experiences.

I don't think anyone would blame you for wanting to deliver in the hospital. Although I think it should be a personal decision, I think delivery in the hospital is probably the best choice in case of unforeseen complications. As with anything medical in nature, there are a lot of complications that just can't be predicted.

In my case, I went completely natural, no epidural or anything. Hurt like hell too. :shock: I think they could have prepared me a little more for the level of pain that I experienced, since I was a really young mom and had no idea how much it was going to hurt.
 

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Per the OP's formula comments:
Being able to nurse is natural - but KNOWING how to do it right to make it painless and effective is NOT natural. You must be taught. I had nothing but problems with nursing and with child 3 I finally got it right but her pediatrician pushed me to use formula anyway because she wasn't gaining enough weight. AKA - all my poking and prodding to find out what i could do that was better for her per nursing was met with rudeness. Basically: I was told there was nothing I could do, and I should just give up nursing. (Gee - so helpful, doc)

4th child: finally I realized that my quick loss of weight right after birth put too much pressure on my body to produce adequate milk supplies - so I continued to eat like I was pregnant. Long term effects, yes - but I nursed him for 6 months before having to ween and he was a big guy.

Also, hospitals ARE bought out by formula companies when they give you a 'It's a baby!' care package to take home and it HAS free formula and bottles in it. Yeah - mixed signals much?

Women should not have to delivery and raise FOUR KIDS to learn all this **** by TRIAL AND ERROR. . . this is a negative effect our medical age has brought us. Decades ago knowledge in general was all around less than today - but when things were known, it use to be that such things were a part of life, everyone knew more from early on in life . . . now it's reversed: our knowledge per science has improved, but it's heavily weighted towards the doctors and nurses, and much less of it is 'general' from early on in life.

Of course, there are some doctors who really seem to think they are Gods and know what's best, but they are not the majority. I don't claim to know every doctor, just speaking from my own experiences.

I don't think anyone would blame you for wanting to deliver in the hospital. Although I think it should be a personal decision, I think delivery in the hospital is probably the best choice in case of unforeseen complications. As with anything medical in nature, there are a lot of complications that just can't be predicted.

In my case, I went completely natural, no epidural or anything. Hurt like hell too. :shock: I think they could have prepared me a little more for the level of pain that I experienced, since I was a really young mom and had no idea how much it was going to hurt.
People who have fears and concerns should be encouraged to speak them - and be selective about their treatment.

One thing that would be WISE beyond belief is to actually invite women to the delivery department for a tour of the routine/facility area. OR discuss with them birthing equipment and procedures well ahead of time.

The E gel is no big deal . . . but like hell if anyone knows what it is. There's a lot that goes on with birth, the immediate after care, and infant care - that parents are never informed of.

And honestly - they need to quit taking the babies to the nursery. That just creates distance and ignorance.
 
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Per the OP's formula comments:
Being able to nurse is natural - but KNOWING how to do it right to make it painless and effective is NOT natural. You must be taught. I had nothing but problems with nursing and with child 3 I finally got it right but her pediatrician pushed me to use formula anyway because she wasn't gaining enough weight. AKA - all my poking and prodding to find out what i could do that was better for her per nursing was met with rudeness. Basically: I was told there was nothing I could do, and I should just give up nursing. (Gee - so helpful, doc)

4th child: finally I realized that my quick loss of weight right after birth put too much pressure on my body to produce adequate milk supplies - so I continued to eat like I was pregnant. Long term effects, yes - but I nursed him for 6 months before having to ween and he was a big guy.

Also, hospitals ARE bought out by formula companies when they give you a 'It's a baby!' care package to take home and it HAS free formula and bottles in it. Yeah - mixed signals much?



People who have fears and concerns should be encouraged to speak them - and be selective about their treatment.

One thing that would be WISE beyond belief is to actually invite women to the delivery department for a tour of the routine/facility area. OR discuss with them birthing equipment and procedures well ahead of time.

The E gel is no big deal . . . but like hell if anyone knows what it is. There's a lot that goes on with birth, the immediate after care, and infant care - that parents are never informed of.

And honestly - they need to quit taking the babies to the nursery. That just creates distance and ignorance.
You make some really great points, especially about the care baskets. They do tend to push formula feeding instead of spending the proper time to find out what the problem might actually be.

You would absolutely LOVE my aunt. She goes to new mom's homes and teaches them how to breast feed properly, among many other things, like bathing, cutting nails, all of those little tedious things that can be kind of scary and intimidating to new moms.

The thing is that her services aren't free, so she usually works for wealthy people only. They should definitely do more of that in the hospital for new moms to make them more comfortable.
 

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To the best of my understanding it's like an earthy, hippie midwife with less training. :shrug:
They are NOT midwives, they assist midwives. They do not deliver babies. My daughter went through the training, and they merely assist. They primarily act as a substitute for a father, when one isn't present....but not solely.

Anyway, birthing/obstetrics is a strange animal in the medical world. The revival of c-sections was the biggest factor in women surviving births. The reintroduction of the c-section with the cross incision in the late 1800's reduced deaths dramatically. On the opposite side is the fact that Obstetricians carry the highest level of malpractice insurance, because they are often blamed for anything that might be wrong with the baby, even if the mother snorted coke, drank and smoked for 9 months. So what we have here is possibly an over use of a procedure to counter the crazy liability issue with this profession. Many OB doctors have gotten out of delivering babies altogether........they very reason most got into the profession to begin with. Sad, is what it is.
 
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