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Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr., speaking about the George Zimmerman acquittal at the NAACP annual convention in Orlando, Fla., urged that laws like Florida’s “stand your ground” statute allowing people to use licensed firearms when they feel threatened should be invoked only after the person first tries to retreat from a dangerous situation.
“It’s time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods,” Holder said. “These laws try to fix something that was never broken.”
[More at the source: Atty. Gen. Eric Holder slams 'stand your ground' laws - latimes.com]
From the LA Times:
It has begun.
What do you think?
From the LA Times:
It has begun.
What do you think?
He said, “We must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common sense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat, outside their home, if they can do so safely.” Otherwise, he said, “by allowing and perhaps encouraging violent situations to escalate in public, such laws undermine public safety. The list of resulting tragedies is long and, unfortunately, has victimized too many who are innocent.
Well, his claim seems to be that many of those who claim to be defending themselves from violence are actually perpetuating violence. So, to him, he is concerned with those people.Holder should be concerned with folks perpetuating violence rather than being concerned with those defending themselves from the violence.
The premise of his position is that regular citizens (i.e. not law enforcement) have too much authority to use violence so this test of sincerity doesn't make sense.I'll believe Holder in being sincere in his position when he calls on law enforcement to have a duty to retreat from violent criminals...
Thrilla said:I'll believe Holder in being sincere in his position when he calls on law enforcement to have a duty to retreat from violent criminals...
..yes, i understand what his premise is and why he would exclude law enforcementThe premise of his position is that regular citizens (i.e. not law enforcement) have too much authority to use violence so this test of sincerity doesn't make sense.
No, the premise isn't that LEO lives are "more important". It is that LEOs are more trained than the average citizen to use force appropriately.law enforcement officers lives are simply more important than ordinary folks.. so they should be left to be able to defend themselves and ordinary folks should have their choices constrained by law.
Well, his claim seems to be that many of those who claim to be defending themselves from violence are actually perpetuating violence. So, to him, he is concerned with those people.
No, the premise isn't that LEO lives are "more important". It is that LEOs are more trained than the average citizen to use force appropriately.
Holder does know this. He's arguing that Stand Your Ground allows assailants to claim victimhood and self-defense when neither applies to them.if they are perpetuating violence, SYG would not come into play ..
SYG concerns self defense, not being the assailant.
Holder should know this..
If you need immediate force, then regular self-defense laws would still apply.However, even a LEO will tell you that in that crucial time when you might need immediate force, they might not be there...So I guess you're saying that's too bad.
No, the premise isn't that LEO lives are "more important". It is that LEOs are more trained than the average citizen to use force appropriately.
Well, he is not arguing that the self-defense laws, in general, should be taken away. He is arguing that Stand Your Ground laws ought to be reexamined and perhaps done away with. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to characterize his arguments as taking the self-defense option away from people. You would still have the option to defend yourself if it was necessary.ahh, so he's assuming us regular folks can't handle our ****, therefore, they should be made to run away.
I have a novel idea.. how about letting folks choose the course of action they are comfortable with?... some will most assuredly run away, some will most assuredly provide an active defense... but most importantly, the choice will be left with the person that is actually involved in the situation, rather than some dimwitted politicians trying to decide their course of action for them .
god forbid Holder ever fins himself in a situation where he has ot defend himself... well, after he is out of office and no longer has armed guards doing it or him... I think he would like to have a choice in the matter like anyone else would.
If you need immediate force, then regular self-defense laws would still apply.
Holder does know this. He's arguing that Stand Your Ground allows assailants to claim victimhood and self-defense when neither applies to them.
Sure and Holder believes that Stand Your Ground facilitates false claims of self-defense. He wants to prevent people from shooting innocent people and then falsely claiming self-defense. He doesn't want to wait until after people are already dead.as i'm sure any LEO would attest to, Self defense is probably claimed by many folks..... who are now in prison after it comes out they were not , in fact, defending themselves.
LEO still investigates these killings to determine claims such as self defense... SYG laws don't negate those investigations.
SYG laws don't effect such things... self defense laws are still in place.
It seems that Holder agrees. He just doesn't think that Stand Your Ground is reasonable.I think that laws restricting one from exercising reasonable self defense are asinine.
Which has no effect on the fact that regular self-defense laws would still apply.We see how the self defense laws are going so well that a jury acquits, and what happens? The original instigators of the race baiting, whom said that they wanted him arrested, and charged, all of the sudden don't like the verdict, so the pressure is on for Holder to trump something up, and get him...It is sick.
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