• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hey, could we have rational discussions about President Obama?

joe six-pack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
384
Location
Six-Pakistan
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
As a country, I think we've gone off the hyperbolic deep-end. It's time to take a sobering look at ourselves and realize that our political discussion is polluted with misinformation and insane gibberish.

Let me give you an example of a proper critique of Obama: He hasn't yet done the job he was sent to do. The President campaigned as a visionary, but has preformed to maintain the status quo; he has not delivered on all of his campaign promises, and has not yet delivered on the message he was elected to achieve.

But the conversation is deluded and skewed by pundits and talking-mouths who bring hyperbole into an otherwise reasonable critique of our 44th President. It detracts from the real issue of job performance when complete tools put his middle name, Hussein, in "quotation-marks" as if the people who voted for him care that his father was an African-Muslim.

It detracts from the conversation when crack-pots, who label a Liberal President, with many Conservative policies, a fascist or communist. It doesn't matter that these two ideas are contradictory. The people yelling these slogans don't really understand what they mean to begin with.

Take any major criticism of the President from the right--you can bet a Republican has done it. Health Care? Mandatory care was Bob Dole's idea, that Republican who ran against Clinton. Mitt Romney lead the charge for mandatory Health coverage in his home-state of Massachusetts, where homosexuals can get married to each other.

Government bail outs? Try George W Bush and the TARP fiasco.

There is nothing "radical" about this Presidents policies. If anything they are too ordinary, too common-place. It's been done, again and again by past Presidents, Congressmen and Senators on both sides of the isle. This is the status quo, not some radical Government overthrow.

You know what? I feel less represented by either side everyday. Republicans have no shame and Democrats are total screw-ups. But let's at least have a civilized discussion about the political process and accurately critique our Government and President. Please.

If not, then go to hell. Thanks. :peace
 

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
19,883
Reaction score
5,120
Location
0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Pretty much.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...s-2nd-quarter-cbo-says-11.html#post1058997443

Obama is enacting a bunch of Republican Agenda Platforms and he's getting called a Socialist. The stimulus had verbatim policies from Bush and the 2001 GOP and he's getting called a Socialist. Bush actually enacting a socialist addition to Medicare that is funded by taxing the rest of us...and is defended by Republicans. Obama forcing people to shoulder the burden of their own costs by buying private insurance....is called a socialist.

And the funny thing is that TARP worked. Virtually no one here understands that once banks stop lending to each other overnight to cover reserve minimums, we are literally one step from financial collapse. And you know the Republicans here would be calling for Obama's head for failing to prevent that. When they see their Goldman Sach's stock literally become worthless, they'd go into a rage. Obama and Bush saved their retirement funds...and get called horrible names in return. No good deed goes unpunished.

What I don't understand is how people think that this recession is the same as all recessions. Kind of stupid if you ask me.
 
Last edited:

peepnklown

Frankernaut
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
607
Reaction score
177
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
It’s the same old thing. We have a presidential candidate from political party B promise change from political party A and then when in office follows or continues political party A’s platform and or goals.
 

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
19,883
Reaction score
5,120
Location
0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
It’s the same old thing. We have a presidential candidate from political party B promise change from political party A and then when in office follows or continues political party A’s platform and or goals.

It is amusing to watch diehard Bush supporters attack Obama for doing the same stuff Bush did. Bunch of raging hypocrites.

And joe six-pack, it's not possible because most people are too partisan to realize they are massive raging hypocrites.
 

mpg

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
7,795
Reaction score
1,784
Location
Milford, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
The "evil" things that Bush was hated for, such as Gitmo, suspension of habeas corpus and warrantless wiretaps, are suddenly OK now that Obama is POTUS.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
81,577
Reaction score
36,618
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The "evil" things that Bush was hated for, such as Gitmo, suspension of habeas corpus and warrantless wiretaps, are suddenly OK now that Obama is POTUS.

No, we're still kinda upset about that.
 

Harry Guerrilla

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
28,951
Reaction score
12,422
Location
Not affiliated with other libertarians.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
As a country, I think we've gone off the hyperbolic deep-end. It's time to take a sobering look at ourselves and realize that our political discussion is polluted with misinformation and insane gibberish.

Let me give you an example of a proper critique of Obama: He hasn't yet done the job he was sent to do. The President campaigned as a visionary, but has preformed to maintain the status quo; he has not delivered on all of his campaign promises, and has not yet delivered on the message he was elected to achieve.

But the conversation is deluded and skewed by pundits and talking-mouths who bring hyperbole into an otherwise reasonable critique of our 44th President. It detracts from the real issue of job performance when complete tools put his middle name, Hussein, in "quotation-marks" as if the people who voted for him care that his father was an African-Muslim.

It detracts from the conversation when crack-pots, who label a Liberal President, with many Conservative policies, a fascist or communist. It doesn't matter that these two ideas are contradictory. The people yelling these slogans don't really understand what they mean to begin with.

Take any major criticism of the President from the right--you can bet a Republican has done it. Health Care? Mandatory care was Bob Dole's idea, that Republican who ran against Clinton. Mitt Romney lead the charge for mandatory Health coverage in his home-state of Massachusetts, where homosexuals can get married to each other.

Government bail outs? Try George W Bush and the TARP fiasco.

There is nothing "radical" about this Presidents policies. If anything they are too ordinary, too common-place. It's been done, again and again by past Presidents, Congressmen and Senators on both sides of the isle. This is the status quo, not some radical Government overthrow.

You know what? I feel less represented by either side everyday. Republicans have no shame and Democrats are total screw-ups. But let's at least have a civilized discussion about the political process and accurately critique our Government and President. Please.

If not, then go to hell. Thanks. :peace

I think that if you believed the president to be a visionary, from his campaign rhetoric, you already lost.
It was one giant appeal to emotion.

Totally agree that conservatives should get off the Obama is a Kenyan, Muslim, communist, evil doer.
It makes them look incredibly ignorant and foolish.
 

Wiseone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,551
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Lets talk deficit spending too. I love when both parties claim its time for fiscal conservatism in Washington DC, Republicans claim it more but both parties to it too much considering the massive inflation in gov't spending.

I know some people reading this will say "Well the Obama Stimulus costs 814 billion while Iraq only cost 700 billion!" Like the different of 114 Billion means that much when you look at those numbers, and even if it did matter at least the Stimulus money is going to be reinvested, although not entirely effectively, back into the economy. War, by definition, is waste because it creates no new value. What do I mean by that? Well with a stimulus you may build a new road which cuts down on travel time for goods traveling across the country, so companies need less drivers, gasoline, make less trips, etc, so money is coming from that investment. But if you build a 2 billion dollar B-2 bomber, it has no such effect on the economy.

Both parties spend spend spend like there's no tomorrow.

Then you got claims that Dems are expanding the size of the government, having it take over our lives! But ignore the huge expansion of goverment under Bush in response to 9/11, including an entirely new department of Homeland Security which is a total cluster**** money pit.
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
49,477
Reaction score
29,174
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
No, we're still kinda upset about that.

Yep, theres a reason why many democrats who are running are afraid of a low voting turnout.
 

Grim17

Battle Ready
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
31,757
Reaction score
15,079
Location
Southwestern U.S.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
As a country, I think we've gone off the hyperbolic deep-end. It's time to take a sobering look at ourselves and realize that our political discussion is polluted with misinformation and insane gibberish.

Let me give you an example of a proper critique of Obama: He hasn't yet done the job he was sent to do. The President campaigned as a visionary, but has preformed to maintain the status quo; he has not delivered on all of his campaign promises, and has not yet delivered on the message he was elected to achieve.

Much of "visionary" message was anything but clear. What people say he was sent to do, depends on who you talk to. The farther left a person is, the more radical the changes they believe he was elected to accomplish. Saying he has maintained the status quo is just not true. I would call the heath care bill he passed anything but that.

But the conversation is deluded and skewed by pundits and talking-mouths who bring hyperbole into an otherwise reasonable critique of our 44th President. It detracts from the real issue of job performance when complete tools put his middle name, Hussein, in "quotation-marks" as if the people who voted for him care that his father was an African-Muslim.

I agree with you on the "Hussein" thing. I thought it may have had a degree of relevance during the campaign, but it certainly doesn't anymore.

It detracts from the conversation when crack-pots, who label a Liberal President, with many Conservative policies, a fascist or communist. It doesn't matter that these two ideas are contradictory. The people yelling these slogans don't really understand what they mean to begin with.

Does the expression "you reap what you sow" ring a bell? This over the top labeling was cemented into the American political landscape by the left during the entire 8 years of the Bush administration. The liberal left opened a can of worms that will likely never go away, so now we all have to live with it.

I am not someone that has ever called president Obama a communist or fascist. But unlike the labels thrown at president Bush, the ones hurled at Obama at least have some foundation to them. The Obama administration is littered with people who embrace an anti-capitalist, socialist, redistributive ideology that can't be denied. President Obama has for his entire life, surrounded himself with the most radical, anti-American people in our society. His childhood mentor was a communist, his spiritual mentor for 20 years was a radical anti-American, his spiritual adviser now is a avowed socialist, and a former associate of Obama's who hosted the event kicking off his political career, was an American terrorist who was involved in several bombings. Even in his college years he embraced radical Marxists, and the most anti-American professors and students on campus. These people weren't just acquaintances, but major players in his life as he made clear in both of his books. These are all facts, not lies manufactured to attack the man, and if the media would have done there job and scrutinized Obama before the election, he would have never been elected in the first place.

The American people have gotten a preview of what this president stands for, and whether you like it of not, they are rising up against it. Call it what you like, but it isn't based on misinformation. It's based on regret... regret that they didn't take the beliefs he professed to embrace his entire life more seriously.



Take any major criticism of the President from the right--you can bet a Republican has done it. Health Care? Mandatory care was Bob Dole's idea, that Republican who ran against Clinton. Mitt Romney lead the charge for mandatory Health coverage in his home-state of Massachusetts, where homosexuals can get married to each other.

Bob Dole failed in his bid for the presidency... This should tell you something. As for Mitt Romney, he passed a "state" health care bill. Agree or disagree with the bill itself, it was done at the state level, which is not only constitutional, but the only way it should be done. That's the way this country was set up.

Whether you want a government run universal heath care system or not, the one that was passed was a complete joke that needs to be scraped. It was 2000 pages regulations and mandates that not one person in congress or the senate ever read before signing. The fact that it wasn't even written by congress, but by the far left organization "The Apollo Alliance" justifies any and all calls for its repeal.

Government bail outs? Try George W Bush and the TARP fiasco.

For many more years than I've been alive, we have all watched government spending spiral out of control. The reason it's become a big deal now, it that we have reached such a monumental amount of debt and government spending combined, that it has finally scared the hell out of main stream Americans. If the next president continues on the same path as we're on now, the public unrest will only grow louder, no matter what party is in power.

There is nothing "radical" about this Presidents policies. If anything they are too ordinary, too common-place. It's been done, again and again by past Presidents, Congressmen and Senators on both sides of the isle. This is the status quo, not some radical Government overthrow.

That is your opinion... but as has become more and more clear each day, that is not how more and more Americans see things.

You know what? I feel less represented by either side everyday. Republicans have no shame and Democrats are total screw-ups. But let's at least have a civilized discussion about the political process and accurately critique our Government and President. Please.

I myself have lost faith in the government. Unfortunately though, we only have 2 choices right now, and I am forced to have to put my faith in one party or the other. After witnessing just a year and a half of the Obama administration, that choice couldn't be more clear.

If not, then go to hell. Thanks. :peace

All righty then...
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
81,577
Reaction score
36,618
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yep, theres a reason why many democrats who are running are afraid of a low voting turnout.

I voted for change and I got Bush III. Conservatives keep telling me Obama is both The Liberal Messiah and that he's also very unpopular in his own party. It's kinda strange how they manage to reconcile those two thoughts.

Obama has not yet earned my vote for his re-election because he has not substantially delivered on his campaign promises, and has instead proven to be basically the same as every other politician, and especially on personal liberties he's just continued the Bush doctrine. Yeah, the Democrats have every reason to be afraid. If my choice is between "Incompetent and Spineless" and "Total Assholes," I'm probably just going to stay home.
 

Cold Highway

Dispenser of Negativity
DP Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
9,595
Reaction score
2,739
Location
Newburgh, New York and World 8: Dark Land
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I voted for change and I got Bush III. Conservatives keep telling me Obama is both The Liberal Messiah and that he's also very unpopular in his own party. It's kinda strange how they manage to reconcile those two thoughts.

Obama has not yet earned my vote for his re-election because he has not substantially delivered on his campaign promises, and has instead proven to be basically the same as every other politician, and especially on personal liberties he's just continued the Bush doctrine. Yeah, the Democrats have every reason to be afraid. If my choice is between "Incompetent and Spineless" and "Total Assholes," I'm probably just going to stay home.

You should never stay home in a election, there is always someone to vote for.
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
49,477
Reaction score
29,174
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I voted for change and I got Bush III. Conservatives keep telling me Obama is both The Liberal Messiah and that he's also very unpopular in his own party. It's kinda strange how they manage to reconcile those two thoughts.

Obama has not yet earned my vote for his re-election because he has not substantially delivered on his campaign promises, and has instead proven to be basically the same as every other politician, and especially on personal liberties he's just continued the Bush doctrine. Yeah, the Democrats have every reason to be afraid. If my choice is between "Incompetent and Spineless" and "Total Assholes," I'm probably just going to stay home.

Your story is similar to mine. My vote was to reverse many of Bush's policies that I disagreed with. Not really hope or change, but more of a return to normalcy. I didn't get that, so basically I have no party to turn to.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Your story is similar to mine. My vote was to reverse many of Bush's policies that I disagreed with. Not really hope or change, but more of a return to normalcy. I didn't get that, so basically I have no party to turn to.

This is basically how I feel, though I will still vote. It seems to me that the republicans have terrible ideas, but know how to get things done, and the dems have great ideas, but couldn't know how to do things the right way to save their lives. I guess my only hope is to vote for the guys with great ideas, and hope they get their act together, and learn how to get crap done.
 

Frozengale

Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
161
Reaction score
56
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I would love to have an unbiased report pointing out the positives and negatives of this (and any, really) President. Then I wouldn't have to sit here stupidly trying to sort through any and all information about him (and any other President) wondering if somethings been hyped, toned down, changed, misrepresented, etc. etc. etc.

This is my main complaint about the Two Party System. It creates an environment where it is impossible to have rational discussions and try to eliminate bias. I mean we are all fighting for the same team aren't we? We are trying to make out country better, stable, and a great place to live. But the fact that we can't even have a rational debate on anything concerning politics, let alone the President of the United States, means that we are doomed to fail.

Personally I don't know what to think of Obama, most of what I hear and read about him I can't help but feel has been skewed to one side or the other. He hasn't screwed the US beyond the point of no return so far. But since I use that as a benchmark for "What makes a good President" I can't say that's a good thing.
 
Last edited:

BDBoop

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
9,800
Reaction score
2,719
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
As a country, I think we've gone off the hyperbolic deep-end. It's time to take a sobering look at ourselves and realize that our political discussion is polluted with misinformation and insane gibberish.

I gave this thread five stars, and give you 13 attaboys and a warm fuzzy for starting this thread. Now I'm going to read the responses.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
After 8 years of hyperbolic deep-end about Bush... now we all should be calm and rational and if not, go to hell.


:lamo

Chickens... coming... home.... to roost.
 

BDBoop

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
9,800
Reaction score
2,719
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
After 8 years of hyperbolic deep-end about Bush... now we all should be calm and rational and if not, go to hell.


:lamo

Chickens... coming... home.... to roost.

Every time I take the neocons off ignore, they remind me why they were there to begin with.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Every time I take the neocons off ignore, they remind me why they were there to begin with.

Please keep me on... the Progressive moonbat mentality gives me the green apple splatters.
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
49,477
Reaction score
29,174
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
This is basically how I feel, though I will still vote. It seems to me that the republicans have terrible ideas, but know how to get things done, and the dems have great ideas, but couldn't know how to do things the right way to save their lives. I guess my only hope is to vote for the guys with great ideas, and hope they get their act together, and learn how to get crap done.

We need a party of Alan Graysons. That guy seems like the only honest democrat these days
 

Geo Patric

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
3,671
Reaction score
1,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
As a country, I think we've gone off the hyperbolic deep-end. It's time to take a sobering look at ourselves and realize that our political discussion is polluted with misinformation and insane gibberish.
and? that is new?
Let me give you an example of a proper critique of Obama: He hasn't yet done the job he was sent to do. The President campaigned as a visionary...
he did? i musta dozed off sometime during the campaign. can you cite anything anywhere where the then candidate made any such claim? or anything even remotely close.

m. Obama never claimed to be a radical. In fact, as i recall, he has as a matter of defending himself, had to disclaim it repeatedly.

yes, the rhetoric was hyperbolic, the imagery was rather silly, to be perfectly honest, but it was an election campaign, it was advertising. if we, as a people, are suckers for madison avenue methods... we are damn sure not alone. if we allow ourselves to be duped by advertisers we have mostly ourselves to blame. But, even at its height, was was actually being said?
generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment - this was the time - when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals.
note. not I, the Visionary, but We, the People. THIS statement, as high minded as it is and with all its rhetorical flourish is simple. We get to chose a candidate that will pursue health care for all americans and jobs for the unemployed, begin the long job of changing our technologies to NOT damage the planet to benefit ourselves, and change the view that others have of us as a result of several decades, indeed, more than a century, of indifference and manipulation of other nations and peoples.

now, i would say that THOSE are all things that m. Obama has at the very least attempted. if he has not addressed ALL those things that I hope for or been as successful as I might have hoped, well, my hopes often fail to match the real world. that is why they are called 'hopes'.

and i maintain my hopes. and i maintain my trust in Barack Obama. i never viewed him as a savior but as an intelligent and caring politician. I still do.
Republicans have no shame and Democrats are total screw-ups.
if there is a welling up of irrationalism today, it is in this thinking.... WE are republicans and WE are democrats. The politicians (whom i expect you really mean) are our expression. YOU... You and I and the fella picking fluff outta his ear... we are to blame, not them... they are only doing a job.
If not, then go to hell. Thanks. :peace

hell, as Satre says, is other people. i suspect he is right. Peace, yerself.

geo.
 

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
19,883
Reaction score
5,120
Location
0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
After 8 years of hyperbolic deep-end about Bush... now we all should be calm and rational and if not, go to hell.


:lamo

Chickens... coming... home.... to roost.

The more amusing thing is those who criticized the anti-Bush people are now going off the deep end on a politician who's following the very same policies of Bush.

As others stated, we have Bush III in office but because he's not a Republican, he gets all kind of flak for enacting Republican ideas. This is a sign America is broken.
 

mpg

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
7,795
Reaction score
1,784
Location
Milford, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
No, we're still kinda upset about that.
kinda upset =/= being outraged enough to sacrifice national security and demonizing the POTUS

I'm not saying that you personally did those things, but that's what we saw from the left when W was POTUS.
 
Last edited:

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
We need a party of Alan Graysons. That guy seems like the only honest democrat these days

A Congress made up of escapees from a mental intitution? We already have that. And don't confuse hyperbolic insanity with honesty... which you obviously did. I know... let's fire Congress, parole Manson and put him in charge! Yeah!

That's what you sound like Mega... but I know you were being sarcastic.



.....

Right?
 

Geo Patric

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
3,671
Reaction score
1,057
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
"hyperbolic insanity", to be sure.

jiminy... how do we ever get anything done?

geo.
 
Top Bottom