Hey billo lets pick it up here...

[FinnMacCool]

All I ask is just how many have died?
How many have we helped, how many have we saved?

I haven't read or seen anything that indicates that the Afghanis are living a better life now that they aren't under the Taliban anymore. Most are rather indifferent. Our quest for vengance has destroyed the lives of thousands and Osama Bin Laden is still free.

 

[cherokee]

FinnMacCool]I haven't read or seen anything that indicates that the Afghanis are living a better life now that they aren't under the Taliban anymore. Most are rather indifferent.

I know they are doing alot better now without the taliban..

Something you wont see on the news....
http://www.af/

Our quest for vengance has destroyed the lives of thousands and Osama Bin Laden is still free.

Still need the numbers, just because you say 1000's wont make it true.

Bin laden still free..Thats something I agree with you on.
he really needs to die
They should have sent 250,000 us troops into afghan

 

[FinnMacCool]

I really don't trust anything from governments. That stuff is bound to be filled with propaganda.

 

[Conflict]

First and formeost I have nothing against cherokee. I respect Marines.

I also respect Finny.

I think that what we have seen in Afghanistan is not quite so intuitive. In fact it's quite sublime.

Should we have ousted the taliban? OF course we should have.

Should we have done anything more than that? Of course we shouldn't have.

All the sudden the reports are coming in... Afghanistan wields unknown oil reserves etc blah blah...

People are always slammng the liberals because it's just some huge oil conspiracy. The sad fact of the matter is that now days it's difficult to discern what we are fighting for and why. I keep seing the term oil pop up.... and don't give me any ****ing **** about liberal media... The media is obviously state controlled as it has been for years. Not left, nor right, just imperialistic, attritional, shut the **** up, we own you! Greed.

So why does oil seem to pop up everywhere? Is this the modern day rendition of the beverly hillbillies? I'm not even going to attempt to go into the narcotic market that has so discreetly helped to fund a number of clandestine operations within the DoD. It's time for people to wake up. Look at what your country has been and what it is now. DOn't fight blindly.

 

[FinnMacCool]

From what I've read about history, all the wars we've been involved in have been fought, whether directly or indirectly, for economic purposes. From everything I read, I find it extremely difficult to trust the government, or any government on anything.

What I DO know is that 75% of those living in Afghanistan are undernourished. They're one of the top 10 hungry nations in the world. . .I wonder if bombing the country has made things easier for them. . .perhaps for the ones that died. . .

For one thing, why did we invade Iraq? There are plenty of countries with weapons of mass destruction.

Why didn't we go into Sudan instead? 100 people die everyday over there. There is genocide over there on a massive scale? Why Iraq and not Sudan?

It's because Iraq has economic relevancy, Sudan doesn't. We pick and choose our battles according to which helps us most economically. "Patriotic War" is the greatest lie our ****ing government has ever told to its people. I never will trust them again

 

[cherokee]

From what I've read about history, all the wars we've been involved in have been fought, whether directly or indirectly, for economic purposes. From everything I read, I find it extremely difficult to trust the government, or any government on anything.

Not 100% true.
WWI and WWII was life or death, Korea and Vietnam was to stop commuist takes overs.

What I DO know is that 75% of those living in Afghanistan are undernourished. They're one of the top 10 hungry nations in the world. . .I wonder if bombing the country has made things easier for them. . .perhaps for the ones that died. . .

No one said war was nice but now the people are rebuilding and Aid has been pouring in greater numbers then when the Taliban ruled.
Ask the people if they want the taliban back..Where did you get the 75% at?

For one thing, why did we invade Iraq? There are plenty of countries with weapons of mass destruction.

This is about the war in Afghan not Iraq..

Why didn't we go into Sudan instead? 100 people die everyday over there. There is genocide over there on a massive scale? Why Iraq and not Sudan?

Good question ask the UN. Then ask when they did nothing in Rwanda.

It's because Iraq has economic relevancy, Sudan doesn't. We pick and choose our battles according to which helps us most economically. "Patriotic War" is the greatest lie our ****ing government has ever told to its people. I never will trust them again

This is about the war in Afghan not Iraq..

 

[FinnMacCool]

Not 100% true.
WWI and WWII was life or death, Korea and Vietnam was to stop commuist takes overs.

Only because it was in our nations economic interest to do so. It's true that World War II very well could've been fought for the right reasons, particularily for those who actually voluntered since it was against fascism but the primary concern of the president wasn't fighting fascism but preserving its interests over there.

No one said war was nice but now the people are rebuilding and Aid has been pouring in greater numbers then when the Taliban ruled.
Ask the people if they want the taliban back..Where did you get the 75% at?

http://www.wfp.org/country_brief/hunger_map/map/hungermap_popup/map_popup.html

Good question ask the UN. Then ask when they did nothing in Rwanda.

That always was such a lame excuse. How is it that we can invade Iraq without UN approval but we can't go into Sudan without UN approval? It's ****ing bullshit. America has so much disregard for the UN it doesn't matter what they say. It's just an excuse.But I can see why it would be so easy to place the blame on the UN instead of blaming, as we should, the people in charge. Our Government.

This is about the war in Afghan not Iraq..

Yeah but I'm talking about American imperialism and so both are pertinent.

 

[taxedout]

But we weren't attacked by a country. We were attacked by some psycho's that have a lot of hatred toward us.

And if you think it was only UBL that started this whole mess, just think about what they did. You have to have a pretty good hate-on to do something like that. You don't just all of a sudden decide to fly planes into someones buildings.

But we also need to look at what role we have had in all this. Namely our foreign policy. If we are acting like an aggressor nation, going around the world attacking country's we don't like, then we as American's have to be more responsible voters during our elections.

One never need to look inward to explain the actions of terrorists.
Their actions are beyond those of sane individuals.
Their actions cannot be explained by sane reasoning.
To even try, is ******* in the wind, and exactly what they wish for you to do.
They do not wish to be understood, nor do they wish to ever be satisfied.
They do get a good laugh from your continued rationalization of their behavior however.

 

[FinnMacCool]

One never need to look inward to explain the actions of terrorists.
Their actions are beyond those of sane individuals.
Their actions cannot be explained by sane reasoning.
To even try, is ******* in the wind, and exactly what they wish for you to do.
They do not wish to be understood, nor do they wish to ever be satisfied.
They do get a good laugh from your continued rationalization of their behavior however.

You seem to know a lot about "them". Do you know who "they" are? Have you met with them personally? Have you spoken intimately with them on these things?

If not, then you can shut the F.U.C.K. up

 

[cherokee]

FinnMacCool
Only because it was in our nations economic interest to do so. It's true that World War II very well could've been fought for the right reasons, particularily for those who actually voluntered since it was against fascism but the primary concern of the president wasn't fighting fascism but preserving its interests over there.
http://www.wfp.org/country_brief/hunger_map/map/hungermap_popup/map_popup.html

That was a cool site. I cant navigate much of it (not everything loads)
But it did say this.
“Afghanistan faces enormous recovery needs after more than two decades of war, civil unrest, and recurring natural disasters. While notable progress has been made with the election of a new president and a new parliament, millions of Afghans still live with poverty, a crumbling infrastructure and a landscape that's riddled with mines.”

I do see where is says that 35% of the population is undernourished.
You can’t blame the conditions completely on the US. It’s been a total hellhole for over 40 years. I believe they have been given a chance; they have a new government its up to them to change.

That always was such a lame excuse. How is it that we can invade Iraq without UN approval but we can't go into Sudan without UN approval? It's ****ing bullshit. America has so much disregard for the UN it doesn't matter what they say. It's just an excuse.But I can see why it would be so easy to place the blame on the UN instead of blaming, as we should, the people in charge. Our Government.

Why is it the USA that you only bash the US, How about the French who HAD troops on the ground in Rwanda but did nothing. How about you get the rest of the ******s to stand up to this chit? Huh? Why are you not bashing them?

You think I enjoyed seeing the reports of genocide coming from Rwanda. You think for one motherf.ucking second I didnt want to grab a weapon and tear a$$ over there? F.UCK OFF dipchit.
You have no clue how worthless the f.ucking UN is?
Heres a f.ucking clue for you a$$hole I have friends in Senegal.
You think I don’t worry each and every DAMN day!
And last you piece of chit I’m planning on going to the Dafar region.

Yeah but I'm talking about American imperialism and so both are pertinent.

Whatever floats your f.ucking boat….It makes you sleep better knowing you can blame the USA for every f.ucking thing wrong with the world.
Go to hell bitch.


You know what. you and billo want Iraq and Afghan to fail so f.ucking much, why is that?...
oh you don’t want them to fail then let me ask you motherf.uckers this..
I donate what money I can. I also send care packages to our troops.
WHAT THE F.UCK ARE YOU TWO DOING TO HELP THEM?

 

[cherokee]

You seem to know a lot about "them". Do you know who "they" are? Have you met with them personally? Have you spoken intimately with them on these things?

If not, then you can shut the F.U.C.K. up

Since you want to jump down on him.
Just what the f.uck do you know about THEM or f.ucking THEY?
What you have friends that are terrorists you hang out with?

 

[cherokee]

You know what I think pi$$es you motherf.uckers the most..
I don’t believe 100% with the war in Iraq…..Afghan? Yes 100%.
I do not like my Prez nor do I agree with him
but I support our soldiers.



I WILL NEVER TURN MY BACK ON MY TROOPS!

 

[FinnMacCool]

That was a cool site. I cant navigate much of it (not everything loads)
But it did say this.
“Afghanistan faces enormous recovery needs after more than two decades of war, civil unrest, and recurring natural disasters. While notable progress has been made with the election of a new president and a new parliament, millions of Afghans still live with poverty, a crumbling infrastructure and a landscape that's riddled with mines.”
I do see where is says that 35% of the population is undernourished.
You can’t blame the conditions completely on the US. It’s been a total hellhole for over 40 years. I believe they have been given a chance; they have a new government its up to them to change.

[/Quote]

You seem to forget that we forcefully changed it for them. Their government is most likely simply a pawn of our country. The president over there is, I believe, one of the Bush's business partners.

Why is it the USA that you only bash the US, How about the French who HAD troops on the ground in Rwanda but did nothing. How about you get the rest of the ******s to stand up to this chit? Huh? Why are you not bashing them?

Because this is my country and I feel kinda responsible for it.

You think I enjoyed seeing the reports of genocide coming from Rwanda. You think for one motherf.ucking second I didnt want to grab a weapon and tear a$$ over there? F.UCK OFF dipchit.
You have no clue how worthless the f.ucking UN is?
Heres a f.ucking clue for you a$$hole I have friends in Senegal.
You think I don’t worry each and every DAMN day!
And last you piece of chit I’m planning on going to the Dafar region.



Whatever floats your f.ucking boat….It makes you sleep better knowing you can blame the USA for every f.ucking thing wrong with the world.
Go to hell bitch.

Hmm. . .I'm at a loss for words.

You know what. you and billo want Iraq and Afghan to fail so f.ucking much, why is that?...
oh you don’t want them to fail then let me ask you motherf.uckers this..
I donate what money I can. I also send care packages to our troops.
WHAT THE F.UCK ARE YOU TWO DOING TO HELP THEM?

I don't want anyone to fail but I do want the Afghanis and Iraqis to have decent lives. And American imperialism for their own benefit will not help them with their lives. Human life is of utmost importance, not material needs or money.

As for what I do to help the troops, well it would be extremely silly of me to lie to you. I haven't sent them any money or anything like that to them. What I have done is written articles in my school newspaper about what they go through in hopes that people will better understand what they faced. If I had the means to send them money, I might but I also know that, despite what they are going through, there are about a million other causes out there and many people far worse off doing what they are doing. I have sympath for human life, including soliders, because I am a very empathetic person. What you have to understand is that someone in my posistion cannot afford to send all their money away to other people. I have my own personal dreams and aspirations which I do not feel need to be wasted away at the moment. Now my father and mother are both part of things that help out veterans in need so I hope that at least shows you something.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Since you want to jump down on him.
Just what the f.uck do you know about THEM or f.ucking THEY?
What you have friends that are terrorists you hang out with?

No but neither does he. That was the point.

 

[cherokee]

FinnMacCool]
You seem to forget that we forcefully changed it for them. Their government is most likely simply a pawn of our country. The president over there is, I believe, one of the Bush's business partners.

Yes we did…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

On September 22, 2001, as the U.S. blamed Osama bin Laden and his hosts, the Taliban, for the September 11, 2001 attacks, the United Arab Emirates and later Saudi Arabia withdrew their recognition of the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan, leaving neighboring Pakistan as the only remaining country with diplomatic ties. When threatened with retributive attack by the U.S. for harboring al-Qaeda, the Taliban government offered to judge Osama bin Laden in an Islamic court, and later, to hand him over to a neutral country for a war crimes trial. These offers were rejected by the United States, which instead offered an ultimatum[5] demanding, among other things, the handover of all al-Qaeda leaders and the closure and inspection of all "terrorist training camp".
Shortly afterward, the United States, aided by the United Kingdom and supported by a coalition of other countries including the NATO alliance, initiated military action against the Taliban. The stated intent was to remove the Taliban from power because of the Taliban's refusal to hand over Osama bin Laden for his involvement in the September 11 attacks, and in retaliation for the Taliban's aid to him. The ground war was mainly fought by the Northern Alliance, the remaining elements of the anti-Taliban forces which the Taliban had routed over the previous years.

I don't want anyone to fail but I do want the Afghanis and Iraqis to have decent lives. And American imperialism for their own benefit will not help them with their lives. Human life is of utmost importance, not material needs or money.

So do I

for what I do to help the troops, well it would be extremely silly of me to lie to you. I haven't sent them any money or anything like that to them. What I have done is written articles in my school newspaper about what they go through in hopes that people will better understand what they faced. If I had the means to send them money, I might but I also know that, despite what they are going through, there are about a million other causes out there and many people far worse off doing what they are doing. I have sympath for human life, including soliders, because I am a very empathetic person. What you have to understand is that someone in my posistion cannot afford to send all their money away to other people. I have my own personal dreams and aspirations which I do not feel need to be wasted away at the moment. Now my father and mother are both part of things that help out veterans in need so I hope that at least shows you something.

I do understand where you’re coming from but you can do more then you think. You can rally students at your school for a clothing drive, a blanket or whatever you can think of.
Find out what the afghan people might need and write about it in your paper. It will cost you only time.

Don’t become a whiner like so many in the world spouting out “American imperialism” if you get caught up in the politics you end up not helping anyone.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Yes we did…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

On September 22, 2001, as the U.S. blamed Osama bin Laden and his hosts, the Taliban, for the September 11, 2001 attacks, the United Arab Emirates and later Saudi Arabia withdrew their recognition of the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan, leaving neighboring Pakistan as the only remaining country with diplomatic ties. When threatened with retributive attack by the U.S. for harboring al-Qaeda, the Taliban government offered to judge Osama bin Laden in an Islamic court, and later, to hand him over to a neutral country for a war crimes trial. These offers were rejected by the United States, which instead offered an ultimatum[5] demanding, among other things, the handover of all al-Qaeda leaders and the closure and inspection of all "terrorist training camp".
Shortly afterward, the United States, aided by the United Kingdom and supported by a coalition of other countries including the NATO alliance, initiated military action against the Taliban. The stated intent was to remove the Taliban from power because of the Taliban's refusal to hand over Osama bin Laden for his involvement in the September 11 attacks, and in retaliation for the Taliban's aid to him. The ground war was mainly fought by the Northern Alliance, the remaining elements of the anti-Taliban forces which the Taliban had routed over the previous years.






So do I




I do understand where you’re coming from but you can do more then you think. You can rally students at your school for a clothing drive, a blanket or whatever you can think of.
Find out what the afghan people might need and write about it in your paper. It will cost you only time.

Don’t become a whiner like so many in the world spouting out “American imperialism” if you get caught up in the politics you end up not helping anyone.

I'm actually doing something at school for the people in Darfur. I've been running it by my school administrators but the problem is those guys are so cheap that its nearly impossible for them to do anything. I'm planning on buying a bulk of wrist bands and printing out some flyers to see if I can just do it myself.

I see we will never fully agree on matters of foreign policy but I hope that at the very least, we both understand each other a little more.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by taxedout:
One never need to look inward to explain the actions of terrorists.
Their actions are beyond those of sane individuals.
Their actions cannot be explained by sane reasoning.
To even try, is ******* in the wind, and exactly what they wish for you to do.
They do not wish to be understood, nor do they wish to ever be satisfied.
They do get a good laugh from your continued rationalization of their behavior however.

Sorry it's taken so long to respond, but I had to go get another keyboard.

I'm not trying to explain their actions as if to infer they had a right to do so. What they did was wrong. Very wrong. And they need to be held accountable for that. If that means locking them up for the rest of their lives, so be it. I think they have lost their right to be a member of society.
With that being said, I have never been one for double-standards. In my world, the door swings both ways. I don't expect to live by a different set of rules than others. And I don't lay blame on others without looking at myself first. But what really gets me angry are hypocrits. The ones in particular think that America can run around the world doing whatever we like to country's with impunity. If were bombing the s.h.i.t out of people, how can you say it's all their fault when they retaliate. Take that figuratively, not literally in this example.

In the case of 9/11, I simply want us to look at our foreign policy to see if there are things we need to change (without compromising our national security). If there is, we make some adjustments (not appeasments). If there isn't, then we at least looked into it. But to simply think, "No way, were perfect! We don't do anything wrong. Say that again, and I'll put a boot in your ***!" is bullshit.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee;
You really need to stop getting your information from a comic book.

It's the only thing you understand you spunk-smelling f.a.g.g.o.t!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
Come on bitch give me a number.....Show me the reports...
Or is this the only lame remarks you can come up with?

After I f.u.c.k.e.d your mother in the a.s.s and she took a s.h.i.t and had you, I promised her I would go easy on the little brown loaf. Or is it loafer?

 

[teacher]

Sorry it's taken so long to respond, but I had to go get another keyboard.

Wish you it were so simple. The omnicient, omnipotent eye of teacher watches you always puny simpleton. Never forget that. Only one thing you need concern yourself with...

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by teacher:
Wish you it were so simple. The omnicient, omnipotent eye of teacher watches you always puny simpleton. Never forget that. Only one thing you need concern yourself with...

"Simpleton!" That's one of Gunny's words. Are you two dating? Are you one of Gunny's little Bunny's?

 

[taxedout]

You seem to know a lot about "them". Do you know who "they" are? Have you met with them personally? Have you spoken intimately with them on these things?

If not, then you can shut the F.U.C.K. up

Given your obvious world experience, I can tell right away that you are the expert on human behavior. You obviously have the ability to rationalize with individuals that wish to blow themselves up. Hooray for you.
Did you develope that skill while waiting in the cafeteria line, or maybe while passsing the bong around your dorm room. Maybe your thorough understanding of the world around you was imparted upon you by listening to Rage Against the Machine albums. (I know, you mommy was still cleaning your *** the last time an album was printed).

Whatever the case, you are obviously wise beyound your years, or is that wet behind your ears.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Given your obvious world experience, I can tell right away that you are the expert on human behavior. You obviously have the ability to rationalize with individuals that wish to blow themselves up. Hooray for you.
Did you develope that skill while waiting in the cafeteria line, or maybe while passsing the bong around your dorm room. Maybe your thorough understanding of the world around you was imparted upon you by listening to Rage Against the Machine albums. (I know, you mommy was still cleaning your *** the last time an album was printed).

Whatever the case, you are obviously wise beyound your years, or is that wet behind your ears.

In other words, I am wrong because I'm young. Well how are you right? You can not indefinatly prove your right about any of the **** you said because you've never spoken to them personally nor have you any idea of whether they are insane or not. At the same time, I cannot prove that they are NOt insane might point being you and me are both unable to give a pure answer of what their psychosic behind these acts are (though I can infer a lot), so there is no point in you making vauge generalizations about "them".

BtwI don't like rage of the machiene and I don't smoke pot. We have to wonder where you developed these vauge generalizations. You seem to be an expert on them.

 

[taxedout]

You can not indefinatly prove your right about any of the **** you said because you've never spoken to them personally nor have you any idea of whether they are insane or not. At the same time, I cannot prove that they are NOt insane might point being you and me are both unable to give a pure answer of what their psychosic behind these acts are (though I can infer a lot), so there is no point in you making vauge generalizations about "them".

Sane people don't blow themselves up.
This is not rational human behavior.
Their arguments do not deserve credence.
Only a fool would grant them such.

 

[cherokee]

After I f.u.c.k.e.d your mother in the a.s.s and she took a s.h.i.t and had you, I promised her I would go easy on the little brown loaf. Or is it loafer?

Was that before or after she was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia?

You just don’t get it do you?

I guess it takes a different type of communication to get thru too people like you.