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Has anybody realized that if those French riots had occurred in Israel...

P

pancho-angry

...there'd be dead kids strewn about like newly mown hay. Why hasn't the obvious comparison been made in our papers?
 

mpg

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You expect the newspapers to predict what would happen in each country for each news event?
 

ddoyle00

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"You expect the newspapers to predict what would happen in each country for each news event?"

America's media doesn't have any problems predicting what could happen in Iraq or Afghanistan. Lately, its's been nothing but the media quoting itself and other journalists with no new news.

I agree with Angry. I have seen several times how Israel deals with its problems. Tanks and dismounted infantry knocking down houses or sending gunships after someone because of a bombing.

America has become a haven for Zionists who wish to furthur their own agenda and have infiltrated the government to help promote thier ideals. The American public is seduced and mesmerized by the Jewish rhetoric and that in turn affects our government. If Americans think that they are our brothers because of Jesus Christ, then they are mistaken. If it comes down to Israel or American interests, they would not hesitate to put their ideals first. At any expense.
 
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pancho-angry said:
...there'd be dead kids strewn about like newly mown hay. Why hasn't the obvious comparison been made in our papers?
That is a good point.But you see it is permitted for the Untermenschen to riot,murder and commit mayhem in Aryan lands but not in israel.The jews are above and beyond reproach you see.It is the new religion.
 

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pancho-angry said:
...there'd be dead kids strewn about like newly mown hay. Why hasn't the obvious comparison been made in our papers?
Why use Israel? I told my Mom today "Imagine if they tried burning a rednecks Camaro". Billy bob would be busting out some pump action. As would I. Or how about the Koreans defending their shops in the LA riots? What's your point? Is there something wrong with defending your property? What a weak pathetic attempt to pick on the Jews.
 

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Speaking as a redneck, it would be a Colt AR15, not a pump shotgun. I prefer the ability to put 30 rounds downrange than the shock of only 8 large slugs.
Besides, the point that is trying to be made is who else's governemnt besides Israel's uses its military to put down a riot? Oh yeah, China. Rewind CNN a few months and watch a helicopter shoot rockets into an apartment. Watch a tank knock down a house. There a bit o' difference tween a redneck with a shotgun and a armored tank with a mounted .50 cal and a 120mm smoothbore.
 

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ddoyle00 said:
Speaking as a redneck, it would be a Colt AR15, not a pump shotgun. I prefer the ability to put 30 rounds downrange than the shock of only 8 large slugs.
Each has it's good points. You'd be better off when running out of your trailer to save your Camaro up on cinder blocks from a couple of rioters to go with the shotgun. That pumpkinball has a little more knockdown power than a .223.
Besides, the point that is trying to be made is who else's governemnt besides Israel's uses its military to put down a riot? Oh yeah, China. Rewind CNN a few months and watch a helicopter shoot rockets into an apartment. Watch a tank knock down a house. There a bit o' difference tween a redneck with a shotgun and a armored tank with a mounted .50 cal and a 120mm smoothbore.
The Jews don't play. After what they have been and still go through, can you blame them? And now you're gonna compare democratic Israel with communist China? The Jews are killing terrorists. The Chinese are killing protesters. And this is your debate point? Your not very good at this, are you? If America had people burning cars in the street every night, how long before we brought out he troops? But it might not get to that. US citizens are armed.
 

Tashah

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pancho-angry said:
Why hasn't the obvious comparison been made in our papers?
Maybe they're not as prescient as you? Jewish media conspiracy? Aryan forgot? Irving's arrest? New World Order? Illuminati? Aliens? Lol... go figure.



 

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"After what they have been and still go through, can you blame them?"

-so you justify the use of 64 ton armored tanks rumbling through your own town to go after terrorists?


"The Jews are killing terrorists. The Chinese are killing protesters."

-I did not debate the targets, I debated the use of military force and who else besides Israel and China uses heave armor and helicopters on its own citizens?

On top of that, you still live in your moms basement, dont you? Maybe after saving your paper route money, you can move out and be glad to own a rusted out Camaro. Even though I own a Jeep, I would be happy with a Camaro SS 5.7 litre 350 V8.
And after receiving riot training for my second deployment (of which I am still on) one M16 and a fully loaded LCE of 150 rounds is a bit more substantial when you are facing a crowd. Maybe you have read otherwise in your Soldier of Fortune magazine or your comics, but your not very good with weapons are you?
 

cnredd

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ddoyle00 said:
-I did not debate the targets, I debated the use of military force and who else besides Israel and China uses heave armor and helicopters on its own citizens?
Yeah!...

I wonder who does that...

In 1957, in the wake of the Brown decision, U.S. President Dwight Eisenhower enforced the Supreme Court's 1954 school desegregation order by sending troops to Little Rock, Arkansas when the Governor of the state resisted allowing black students (known as the Little Rock Nine) to attend the previously all-white Little Rock Central High School. President Eisenhower used United States Army troops, when Governor Orval Faubus had mobilized troops from the Arkansas National Guard to prevent it, setting a precedent for the enforcement of court orders relating to racial integration by the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desegregation
 

ddoyle00

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Ok, Arkansas. Were amy shots fired? Was anyone hurt or killed? No.

Kent State. Shots were fired and one person was killed.

Israel......attack gunships with rotary 30mm cannons, various rockets flying through a city to do strafing runs.

Israel.......64 ton Challanger tanks with 120mm smoothbore cannon, .50 caliber machine gun and M60 variant machine gun knocking down houses and apartments.

China....I have no idea the size of their tanks, but needless to say they were used.

Thats the difference. Israel uses excessive force (compared to the rest of the world). When has America ever mobilized tanks and helicopters against its citizens? Never. Fine, Israel lives in a different environment, I agree. My whole point is how Israel would react. I dont condone or disapprove of anything.
 

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cnredd said:
Yeah!...

I wonder who does that...

In 1957, in the wake of the Brown decision, U.S. President Dwight Eisenhower enforced the Supreme Court's 1954 school desegregation order by sending troops to Little Rock, Arkansas when the Governor of the state resisted allowing black students (known as the Little Rock Nine) to attend the previously all-white Little Rock Central High School. President Eisenhower used United States Army troops, when Governor Orval Faubus had mobilized troops from the Arkansas National Guard to prevent it, setting a precedent for the enforcement of court orders relating to racial integration by the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desegregation
It kills me that people think our military is only for use in defending our borders. Our troops first and foremost primary option, WHEN NEEDED, is to defend our cities. Though I've never been privy to seeing armed troops walking down the street, I have to ask. Redd, when the MOVE bit was going on down on Osage, hadn't the PA Guard been readied, and in fact been present, since the Philadelphia PD was unable to control the situation (through no fault of their own, obviously. They were dealing with nutjobs?)
 

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debate_junkie said:
It kills me that people think our military is only for use in defending our borders. Our troops first and foremost primary option, WHEN NEEDED, is to defend our cities. Though I've never been privy to seeing armed troops walking down the street, I have to ask. Redd, when the MOVE bit was going on down on Osage, hadn't the PA Guard been readied, and in fact been present, since the Philadelphia PD was unable to control the situation (through no fault of their own, obviously. They were dealing with nutjobs?)
A) Don't capitalize my name...:2wave:

B) The Guard wasn't needed in Philly for MOVE...It was one house...

The problem came when the Mayor approved a helicopter to drop C4 on the house...The fire spread, and the PFD were concerned about getting shot at from the house if they tried to put it out, so the Mayor chose to let the fire burn until it got out of control and took the whole block down...

I don't know if the Guard was physically there are not...but they weren't needed...
 

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cnredd said:
A) Don't capitalize my name...:2wave:

B) The Guard wasn't needed in Philly for MOVE...It was one house...

The problem came when the Mayor approved a helicopter to drop C4 on the house...The fire spread, and the PFD were concerned about getting shot at from the house if they tried to put it out, so the Mayor chose to let the fire burn until it got out of control and took the whole block down...

I don't know if the Guard was physically there are not...but they weren't needed...
When your name is at the beginning of a sentence, I will cap it :2wave:

Ok, I was asking. I was 14 at the time, and I thought I remembered something being said of the PA guard, but I couldn't find it in my research on the subject, and wanted to seek the brilliant mind of someone who lived there. :lol:
 

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debate_junkie said:
When your name is at the beginning of a sentence, I will cap it :2wave:

Ok, I was asking. I was 14 at the time, and I thought I remembered something being said of the PA guard, but I couldn't find it in my research on the subject, and wanted to seek the brilliant mind of someone who lived there. :lol:
But instead you came to me...:doh

I was 13 at the time and very annoyed that this event took away my General Hospital for the day, although if anyone asks me this I will deny it...
 

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pancho-angry said:
...there'd be dead kids strewn about like newly mown hay. Why hasn't the obvious comparison been made in our papers?



You are very much correctamundo!:smile: If France was ever treated by the media in the same fasion that Israel is;...you had better believe France itself, & government & its people would be accused of disinfranchising the muslim population, practicing genocide, being racists & haters,...as well as being blamed for taking away the rights of the muslim population, ..& condemned for not allowing those innocent peaceful muslims a state for themselves within France!

You must understand the mindset of the liberal media; ...THEY assume the smaller population is the one who is ALWAYS aggrieved, ..ALWAYS righteous, ..& ALWAYS the victims; ..even when it is the smaller population who is committing most, ..IF not ALL of the crimes.

Media does NOT like pointing out the sins, & evils of small groups because it makes it look like THEY might be "piling on" them, ..& thats the last thing the media wants to do because the media also believes that ANYBODY, ..no matter how ideologically bankrupt, or criminal a group is, ..they have every right to riot, destroy property, assault, murder etc , because since THEY are engaging in it, ..why they MUST have legitimate reasons.

Some of the media ALREADY believes it too; & that is why THEY have said things excusing the muslim behavior like: "The muslim population in where They live is poor, ..& the French government isn't doing enough to help them in their squalid conditions"?????

WTF is that? France could not be more accomodating to foreigners, ..they give them housing, food, as well as a stipend to live on, ..& in fact give foreigners so many rights, & priveleges in the first place.

You see, ..with the media, they already believe the French government should DO MORE "GRATIS", ...& the media ignores the fact that it is up to the muslim immigrant to TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES!

It is because the media bought into the joys of "socialism" long ago, ..& assumes it is ALWAYS up to the government, & its native citizens to bend over, & take it up the hershey highway to provide EVERYTHING, ..especially for the groups that DESPISE the native citizens, their religion, & their government!

The media is caught in a catch 22. THey have always loved France, ..& its socialistic government, ...so THEY do not want to portray France as being too heavy handed;...so they just report very little on the topic, ..as they do not want to offend their kissing cousins!

You won't see a French citizen, or any law officer beating the crap out of a muslim, ..especially if any of them deserve it either, ..because in reality the media lOVES both, ..the muslim, & France.

And...you can believe that the media will NOT portray either FRance, or the muslim population as "being in the wrong" because that would be a diservice to both groups, ..cause' they love them both so much!

besides, ..the media would prefer to spend its time, & resources on condemning America, its servicemen,& its government ...as the worst examples of racism & practitioners of torture, & abuse, & as the biggest threat to world peace!;)
 

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"America's media doesn't have any problems predicting what could happen in Iraq or Afghanistan. Lately, its's been nothing but the media quoting itself and other journalists with no new news."

Did they predict what would've happened if hurricane Katrina hit South Korea? Did they predict what would've happened if the French riots were in Peru? Don't be ridiculous.
 

Tashah

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The press didn't hypothesize on what would have happened if the Tsunami had hit the coast of Israel either.

The intent of this thread by pancho-angry was to compare the response of French authorities over rioting by its Muslim citizens, with an imaginary riot response scenario in Israel. I hate to burst pancho's angry bubble, but Israel proper has never been stung with civilian rioting despite the fact that Israel has Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Bedouin, and Druze citizens.

The thread question was not only a hypothetical and flight of fancy, it was also framed with a determinate bias. Clearly, not a very auspicious beginning for señor pancho-angry.



 

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It's kind of irrelevant whether we are talking about rioters or terrorists here. Not that the two can be compared in any substantial way.

But I think the question of unreasonable force in Palestinian neighborhoods by the Israeli military, and whether it would be thought of as acceptable in a western nation, is a legitimate one.

That's not to suggest that Israel should be deprived of the ability to protect itself. It's just that, some of their methods, such as destroying the family homes of suicide bombers, are conceivably counter-productive and more vengeful than punitive.

It would be silly and most especially, stupid, for the press to try and mock up a riot scenario in Israel. From what I understand, many Palestinians live happily within Israel without incident.
 

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Thank you MixedMedia. Finally someone read my comments for what they are. All I was saying is that Israel and China (that I know of) uses its military on a routine basis to solve domestic problems. Thats all. I wasnt Jew-bashing or comparing rioters to terrorists. Yeesh.
 

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ddoyle00 said:
Thank you MixedMedia. Finally someone read my comments for what they are. All I was saying is that Israel and China (that I know of) uses its military on a routine basis to solve domestic problems. Thats all. I wasnt Jew-bashing or comparing rioters to terrorists. Yeesh.
It's not a "domestic" issue, they are two separate countries, hence the fence!;)

China on the other hand, they have a real problem when it comes to dealing with their own.
 

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Deegan said:
It's not a "domestic" issue, they are two separate countries, hence the fence!;) China on the other hand, they have a real problem when it comes to dealing with their own.
Exactly. ddoyle keeps trying to compare or commingle the internal civil riots in France with the external military actions of Israel. It's apples and oranges.



 

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Regardless of the fence, both countries claim that land, right? During the Mexican War, America sent federal troops to Texas to fight the Mexicans since we both claimed that land. That sounds the same, right?

Today, We would be blasted by the world for something like this while Israel gets off scot-free or they just do not care for world opinion. One of the two.
Israel uses hand-me down American military power to erradicate a terrorists family after a bombing. No other country besides Israel can fly helicopters into the middle of a town and drop bombs on a house purely out of revenge. No other country besides Israel can use its tanks to knock down a house while no one seems to care besides the Arabs.
 

Tashah

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ddoyle00 said:
Regardless of the fence, both countries claim that land, right? During the Mexican War, America sent federal troops to Texas to fight the Mexicans since we both claimed that land. That sounds the same, right?
Duh... you've just stipulated that military forces engage when land is in dispute.

ddoyle00 said:
Today, We would be blasted by the world for something like this while Israel gets off scot-free or they just do not care for world opinion. One of the two.
Really?.........

US forces have not knocked down civilian homes in Faloojah? US forces have not bulldozed orchards and palm-date groves in Tikrit? US helicopters have not fired missles in any Iraqi city since 'Mission Accomplished'? US forces have not conducted any midnight raids on insurgent cells? US forces never search Iraqi civilians? No road barricades? No city lockdowns? No arrests without warrants? No torture or abuse of prisoners? No secret CIA detention centers? No bombs dropped on wedding celebrations in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did not the US allow Iraq to be looted for almost a week?

Sorry if these exemplars are a bit inconvenient doyle.

ddoyle00 said:
Israel uses hand-me down American military power to erradicate a terrorists family after a bombing. No other country besides Israel can fly helicopters into the middle of a town and drop bombs on a house purely out of revenge. No other country besides Israel can use its tanks to knock down a house while no one seems to care besides the Arabs.
Hand me down American military power? Lol...
Never heard of the Markava tank doyle? Galil assault rifle? UZI 9mm Submachine Gun? Arrow anti-missle system? Sharaf helicopter? Spike Anti-Armour Missile System? Tactical High Energy Laser? Not an American knockout in the bunch.

Oh yea doyle, more Israeli weaponry currently used by US forces...
Improved Tactical Air Launched Decoy, Reactive Armor Tiles, Litening navigation and targeting device, Popeye/ HAVE NAP AGM-142, Python-4-Air-to-Air Missile, Simon, CLAMS, SINCGARS Tactical Communications, B300/SMAW Bunker-Busting Missile.

Perhaps you should drop the old cliche's and brush up a bit on US military tactics in Iraq and Israeli weaponry. Seems you haven't a clue in either subject.



 

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Tashah said:
Duh... you've just stipulated that military forces engage when land is in dispute.


Really?.........

US forces have not knocked down civilian homes in Faloojah? US forces have not bulldozed orchards and palm-date groves in Tikrit? US helicopters have not fired missles in any Iraqi city since 'Mission Accomplished'? US forces have not conducted any midnight raids on insurgent cells? US forces never search Iraqi civilians? No road barricades? No city lockdowns? No arrests without warrants? No torture or abuse of prisoners? No secret CIA detention centers? No bombs dropped on wedding celebrations in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did not the US allow Iraq to be looted for almost a week?

Sorry if these exemplars are a bit inconvenient doyle.


Hand me down American military power? Lol...
Never heard of the Markava tank doyle? Galil assault rifle? UZI 9mm Submachine Gun? Arrow anti-missle system? Sharaf helicopter? Spike Anti-Armour Missile System? Tactical High Energy Laser? Not an American knockout in the bunch.

Oh yea doyle, more Israeli weaponry currently used by US forces...
Improved Tactical Air Launched Decoy, Reactive Armor Tiles, Litening navigation and targeting device, Popeye/ HAVE NAP AGM-142, Python-4-Air-to-Air Missile, Simon, CLAMS, SINCGARS Tactical Communications, B300/SMAW Bunker-Busting Missile.

Perhaps you should drop the old cliche's and brush up a bit on US military tactics in Iraq and Israeli weaponry. Seems you haven't a clue in either subject.



:applaud Game Set Match

Way to go Tasha...doyle, you might as well just take it on home at this point cuz you just got smacked down.
 
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