BWG
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- Jun 29, 2005
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AlbqOwl said:Yeah and pigs fly in Missouri, too.
AlbqOwl said:Would you expect them to put out a promo that they dislike the Salvation Army? I went to the local store last year when the kettles were first kicked off premises and was advised that this is Target's new policy because a few customers disliked having to walk past the kettles on their way in and out of the stores.
AlbqOwl said:Now honestly, if the presence of a Salvation Army kettle makes anybody feel uncomfortable, I suggest they volunteer to spend some time helping out on the soup lines over the holidays. They really really need to do that.
AlbqOwl said:And if the presence of a Salvation Army bell ringer is a 'distraction', then these stores have far more problems than bell ringers.
AlbqOwl said:I wonder how much distraction it would be for me to stand outside Target stores and hand out flyers suggesting people go hunt out the stores that do welcome efforts to help the less fortunate during the holiday season?
BWG said:I haven't been to Missouri in a while, I must make plans soon, that would be a sight to see....LOL
As a charitable organization volunteer, I had the opportunity to talk to a Target executive and he explained that more and more organizations were petitioning Target for space in front of the store and it was getting out of hand and they felt that it was becoming a distraction to customers. So rather than discriminate against any one organization, the decision was made to not allow any at all and make donations through corporate.
Isn't part of capitalism making customers happy?
What makes you think that 'uncomfortable' Target customers don't already volunteer for charitable organizations?
The Target stores in my area don't seem to have many problems, as their parking lots are quite full.
Do you really think people are going to drive around and look for 'bell ringers' before they enter a store or are they going to the one that has a 'big 2 day sale?
Besides, that might pose legal problems that you might not want to endure.
jamesrage said:The way I look at is since the department stores are profiting because of Christmas then they should acknowledge that it is christmas.I think all this horse **** about being offended by someone saying merry Christmas is a load of horse ****.I have no problem with someone greeting me happy hanukkah,I expect them to not have a problem when I say merry Christmas.
Inuyasha said:As a young man I went to Asia and I thought a country like Japan would appear as an enigma or a paradox to me. But the truth is my own country is more of an enigma than anywhere on the planet. How we can be a nation with much profundity and turn right around and lose ourselves in a petty subject like this, Who really cares? Is it going to make such a big difference? It's like the smoker vs non-smoker war. That is going on all over the world but here it becomes incredibly confrontational. To the point of being bellicose and almost violent. We just have too much free time on our hands and get involved in this kind of thing. I guess everyone has to find an evelope to push.
OdgenTugbyGlub said:You know AlbqOwl if you're so keen on "defending Christmas" you should be THANKING these stores that don't put up "Merry Christmas" signs. After all, hasn't Christmas become overly commercialized in the past few decades? Looks like the stores are doing your work for you. The less people are slapped in the face with Christmas at every place of commerce the more likely they will be to remember the REAL meaning of Christmas.
But of course you insist on making it into some kind of conspiracy to oppression the Christians in the population, all 70% percent of them.
Wow, seriously, talk about extreemism. Who cares? seriously. I'm glad Christmas is a national holiday, as is Thanksgiving and especially New years. I need those days off. But I think that Christmast is hardly the celebration of Jesus' Birthday, as factual evidence shows that he was born closer to thanksgiving anyway. I've always seen Christmas as a holiday celebration of good faith and charity towards everyone, more of the celebration of St. Nicholas' good will. Congratulations to all those of you hardcore fanatics on both sides of the argument that just have to make an issue out of nothing.JOHNYJ said:I have an idea,lets cancel Christmas. Keep the schools open,remove it as a holiday. Dont print special stamps,get the churches to discourage gift giving and card sending. That should make the secular humanist /liberals happy.
Now all those families that were going on vacation during Christmas might be a little miffed if they had to stay home,because the schools were open and those winter vacation spots might loose money. The post office woud loose millions, as would the card companies. Those stores that can't Say Christmas wouldn't be very crowded.
Yet they would not be offending anyone,thats what they want, right.
jfuh said:Wow, seriously, talk about extreemism. Who cares? seriously. I'm glad Christmas is a national holiday, as is Thanksgiving and especially New years. I need those days off. But I think that Christmast is hardly the celebration of Jesus' Birthday, as factual evidence shows that he was born closer to thanksgiving anyway. I've always seen Christmas as a holiday celebration of good faith and charity towards everyone, more of the celebration of St. Nicholas' good will. Congratulations to all those of you hardcore fanatics on both sides of the argument that just have to make an issue out of nothing.
Happy holidays, great there is after all more than one holiday. Merry christmas great. I really don't get what all this "Oh I'm offended" is over. Please just dig a hole and bury yourself if that's your attitude, and leave the rest of us to enoy the vacation.
NO punt intended, but seriously, oh tell so and so to keep thier mouth shut? Come on please, isn't that just the same thing? People that get so offended over nothing are idiots, why stoop to that level? Tis the season to be giving.AlbqOwl said:It wouldn't be an issue if those who do not believe in the reason for the celebration or do not wish to celebrate it would just mind their own business and find something else to do. When they start trying to dictate to the rest of us how we should celerate the occasion, then it becomes an issue.
jfuh said:NO punt intended, but seriously, oh tell so and so to keep thier mouth shut? Come on please, isn't that just the same thing? People that get so offended over nothing are idiots, why stoop to that level? Tis the season to be giving.
I don't know what happend in the last 10 years or so though when so many people just get offended over nothing. Have we become so rich we have nothing else better to do but whine and complain like a bunch of school kids? Whaaaaa so and so said such and such and it hurt my feelings. Come on, aren't we better than that?
AlbqOwl said:Personally I do not believe there is any constitutional right to not have your feelngs hurt. And yes, we do get offended over ridiculous things these days. I am not offended by those who use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and have said so in this thread. I am offended by those who tell me that "Merry Christmas" is not appropriate and defnitely respect more those who are honest about what the season is and the reason behind it however badly we choose to celebrate it these days.
Caine said:Oh, who the **** do you think you are kidding? Your offended like hell, you've said so yourself, you go looking for stores that wish you a Merry Christmas and avoid those who don't.
And again, Im still wondering when this thread turned into Non-Christians being offended.
The only stuff that I have seen in the news recently is christians getting all butt-hurt because Christmas isn't held on a pedestal above the rest of the holiday of the season. The only reason Non-Christians should be offended is because Christians are getting angry about their holiday not being treated special and this makes it appear on a national scale that Christians don't give a **** about anyone else, which we know isn't true for all Christians, but due to the whining and bitching about the merge of all the holidays into a nice greeting like "Happy Holidays" pisses them off.
No, I don't get offended when someone tells me Merry Christmas, my waitress at Cracker Barrel last night told me Merry Christmas when we left, did I get offended and stingy with my tip? No, I still tipped generously because she could probably use the money for holiday shopping..... OH NO! I SAID HOLIDAY SHOPPING INSTEAD OF CHRISTMAS SHOPPING! Im going to HELL!
Do I boycott stores that display Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays? Hell no! They still provide the same ****ing products reguardless of which greeting they give me.
So, with that said, The only thing I have seen so far this year is the Christian groups complaining because Christmas isn't being treated special. And I'm sick of watching people like AlbqOwl try to turn this thread around backwards.
And for those of you who keep saying that "busineses should call the season what it is.. Christmas."....... Well, I just have one thing to say to you.... I wish you a Happy Chanukah and a Joyful New Year.
And if you don't like it... **** you.
AlbqOwl said:It wouldn't be an issue if those who do not believe in the reason for the celebration or do not wish to celebrate it would just mind their own business and find something else to do. When they start trying to dictate to the rest of us how we should celerate the occasion, then it becomes an issue.
tecoyah said:See....heres where I need to step into this mess. People of my faith have been celebrating this Holy Day for longer than the Bibles have existed. As far as I can tell, (and I have looked for some time) no one put up a stink when Christians took over the Time of Yule to celebrate Christs birth, and today Pagans really dont beyatch about it at all. Yet now we sit back and watch this rediculous panty twist unfold....and I am starting to get a little miffed.
While I really dont care much about the NAME of the celebrations...I do care about the negativity brought into what is to us an extremely important time of reflection and thankfulness.
Normally we celebrate the turning of seasons right now, and give thanks for what we have....I am tempted to simply give thanks that I am not Christian....Happy Freakin' Yule....and enjoy the Solstice
AlbqOwl said:Does it not logically follow that Christians should be afforded the same courtesy?
tecoyah said:Yes...it does, and from what I can tell...no one is in any way stopping you from doing so...any more than they are for me. My interpretation is this:
A small number of vocal Christians are creating an issue over the use of the term "Merry Christmas", or lack of its use in advertising campaigns. This has led to boycotts and general uproar, in an attempt to compell people to say "Merry Christmas"....rather than "Happy Holidays"...or some such wish for a pleasant season.
If indeed I am incorrect it my observations....please set me straight. My point is, no one is telling you how to celebrate the birth of the Christ....they are simply trying to wish EVERYONE a joyous celebration....regardless of religious leaning. To claim this celebration as your own is rather selfish in my opinion, and misguided considering the birth is likely to have taken place months earlier. A second point covers the origin of this holiday....but that should have no bearing on the current issue. I just wish everyone would mellow out and focus on the REASONS for celebration...rather than what we call it.
AlbqOwl said:I am offended by those who tell me that "Merry Christmas" is not appropriate and defnitely respect more those who are honest about what the season is and the reason behind it however badly we choose to celebrate it these days.
tecoyah said:Yes...it does, and from what I can tell...no one is in any way stopping you from doing so...any more than they are for me. My interpretation is this:
A small number of vocal Christians are creating an issue over the use of the term "Merry Christmas", or lack of its use in advertising campaigns. This has led to boycotts and general uproar, in an attempt to compell people to say "Merry Christmas"....rather than "Happy Holidays"...or some such wish for a pleasant season.
If indeed I am incorrect it my observations....please set me straight. My point is, no one is telling you how to celebrate the birth of the Christ....they are simply trying to wish EVERYONE a joyous celebration....regardless of religious leaning. To claim this celebration as your own is rather selfish in my opinion, and misguided considering the birth is likely to have taken place months earlier. A second point covers the origin of this holiday....but that should have no bearing on the current issue. I just wish everyone would mellow out and focus on the REASONS for celebration...rather than what we call it.
AlbqOwl said:I suppose there are some fringe Christian groups calling for a boycott of "Happy Holidays", but these are the fringe and are in no way representative of the whole. I personally have a problem with store employees being told they can't say "Merry Christmas" to customers or relegating Christmas to second class status as Wal-Mart attempted to do. (Wal-Mart has since rescinded that policy and restored Christmas to its rightful place.)
But claim this celebration as my own as in Christian? It is. It is called CHRISTmas. It is named for the figure of Christ that is claimed as a diety by Christians alone. It is the celebration of the festival of that one person's birth that causes Christmas to be. Without it there in all probability be no special celebration at all. That Christians are perfectly willing to share this celebration with all others, believers and non believers alike, is neither exclusive nor prejudicial in my view.
This whole flap was a protest against an attempt to curb Christian enthusiasm for a festival that is unique to Christians, but which is adopted and recognized by anybody and everybody else. The Jews are equally entitled to celebrate Hannukah if they so choose and the pagans can celebrate anything they wish that might be significant to them.
Perhaps you could explain your rationale for why Christians should not claim and express the greeting that expresses a festival that was founded on the very Christ that they worship? And how is it harmful to you for them to do so?
The anchor then asked him, "Do you want all crosses off of pubic property, what about the crosses at Arlington" he said there were none, they showed him the thousands, then he said "well if they are there, then they should be removed as well" Now I don't see this happening, not over my dead body anyway, but this is the length these people will go to, to remove everything religious.
I don't recall hearing anything about employees not being able to wish their customers a Merry Christmas if they so choose. The issue at hand is NOT about what people can and cannot say, because last time I checked, we did still have freedom of speech. I believe we all have brains of our own as well, and with that comes the ability to choose for yourself what you will say.
AlbqOwl said:Then you haven't read this entire thread and you haven't been paying attention. It first hit the papers when Wendy's employees were ordered not to wish anyone a "Merry Christmas". Others followed suit. When it became obvious that this was generating negative publicity, some rescinded the order.
Stace said:Then please, provide me with sources so that I may be enlightened. to this. I apologize if I did indeed miss something here.
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