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Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?

Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?

  • Happy Holidays

    Votes: 13 41.9%
  • Merry Christmas

    Votes: 15 48.4%
  • Neither

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • Total voters
    31

BWG

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AlbqOwl said:
Yeah and pigs fly in Missouri, too.

I haven't been to Missouri in a while, I must make plans soon, that would be a sight to see....LOL

AlbqOwl said:
Would you expect them to put out a promo that they dislike the Salvation Army? I went to the local store last year when the kettles were first kicked off premises and was advised that this is Target's new policy because a few customers disliked having to walk past the kettles on their way in and out of the stores.

As a charitable organization volunteer, I had the opportunity to talk to a Target executive and he explained that more and more organizations were petitioning Target for space in front of the store and it was getting out of hand and they felt that it was becoming a distraction to customers. So rather than discriminate against any one organization, the decision was made to not allow any at all and make donations through corporate.

Isn't part of capitalism making customers happy?

AlbqOwl said:
Now honestly, if the presence of a Salvation Army kettle makes anybody feel uncomfortable, I suggest they volunteer to spend some time helping out on the soup lines over the holidays. They really really need to do that.

What makes you think that 'uncomfortable' Target customers don't already volunteer for charitable organizations?

AlbqOwl said:
And if the presence of a Salvation Army bell ringer is a 'distraction', then these stores have far more problems than bell ringers.

The Target stores in my area don't seem to have many problems, as their parking lots are quite full.

AlbqOwl said:
I wonder how much distraction it would be for me to stand outside Target stores and hand out flyers suggesting people go hunt out the stores that do welcome efforts to help the less fortunate during the holiday season?

Do you really think people are going to drive around and look for 'bell ringers' before they enter a store or are they going to the one that has a 'big 2 day sale?

Besides, that might pose legal problems that you might not want to endure.
 

AlbqOwl

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BWG said:
I haven't been to Missouri in a while, I must make plans soon, that would be a sight to see....LOL



As a charitable organization volunteer, I had the opportunity to talk to a Target executive and he explained that more and more organizations were petitioning Target for space in front of the store and it was getting out of hand and they felt that it was becoming a distraction to customers. So rather than discriminate against any one organization, the decision was made to not allow any at all and make donations through corporate.

Isn't part of capitalism making customers happy?



What makes you think that 'uncomfortable' Target customers don't already volunteer for charitable organizations?



The Target stores in my area don't seem to have many problems, as their parking lots are quite full.



Do you really think people are going to drive around and look for 'bell ringers' before they enter a store or are they going to the one that has a 'big 2 day sale?

Besides, that might pose legal problems that you might not want to endure.

I am much more likely to pull into a store with a bell ringer out front. And I do not shop at those who deny the bell ringers. Isn't it funny that those who still have the bell ringers aren't having all those problems with multiple solicitations? But even if there are multiple solicitors, so long as the money raised is to help the less fortunate have a little more at Chriistmas, why would that be a problem? With that principle as the criteria, it is easy to say no the bake sale for the school ski trip or the rummage sale for a new roof for the ABC whatever church.

My version of Target's 'policy' came before the backlash of banning the bell ringers and before the 'company line' was put out and mandated to respond to people who complained.

Its all a matter of what values we hold as people and what principles speak to those values. I do not dictate to anybody else what they should or not do. But I do and will continue to explain what I do and why I do it. If that changes any minds to think that consideration for the less fortunate might be more important than a few selfish grinches, then I will be pleased.
 

Stace

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jamesrage said:
The way I look at is since the department stores are profiting because of Christmas then they should acknowledge that it is christmas.I think all this horse **** about being offended by someone saying merry Christmas is a load of horse ****.I have no problem with someone greeting me happy hanukkah,I expect them to not have a problem when I say merry Christmas.

But they're NOT just profiting from Christmas...people buy gifts for Hannukah and Kwanzaa, too! And me, well, my mother, brother, and aunt all have birthdays within the 10 days before Christmas, so I have birthday gifts to buy this time of year as well.

As far as the Salvation Army issue....Again, I think they're a wonderful organization, and they have a great cause. But if I'm going to donate money to them, I'm going to do it on my own terms, not because I see a bell ringer standing outside of a store. I don't have a problem with the bell ringers (aside from the ones that haggle people, anyway), but especially this year, I'd rather give of my time than my money, as money is tight right now. I've actually volunteered at one of their homeless shelters before, serving lunch, and it was a very worthwhile experience. Time is a precious commodity that we all feel we don't have enough of....you can always earn more money, but time is something that once it's spent, it's gone forever. That's why I feel that giving your time to an organization such as the Salvation Army is much more meaningful than dropping a handful of change into a bucket or writing them a check....giving your time puts a face and a purpose to what you're doing. By all means, I'm not saying you shouldn't donate money as well, if you feel inclined to do so, but I feel that spending your time is more worthwhile.

And why pick on Target? They may not allow the bell ringers, but did you know that they have a Wish List program with the Salvation Army? I'm not sure if it's available in store, but on their website, you can view the SA wish list for your region and purchase specific items that are needed. You can also make a cash donation to the SA through Target's website.

Wal-Mart only allows the Salvation Army bell ringers to solicit for 14 days.

Companies such as Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot, and Circuit City also have no solicitation policies, as well, if my web surfing research is correct.

Rather than boycott a store simply because they don't allow the bell ringers, why not just make a donation on your own? You don't have to give up shopping at stores you enjoy, and the Salvation Army (or other charity of your choice) still receives much needed funding....so everybody wins.

Whew! Glad I got that out of my system.

Back to the original topic of this thread....how about we just start wishing people a Happy December? That way, you cover all bases, and you're not just wishing them happiness on specific days....you're wishing happiness for EVERY day!
 

Inuyasha

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As a young man I went to Asia and I thought a country like Japan would appear as an enigma or a paradox to me. But the truth is my own country is more of an enigma than anywhere on the planet. How we can be a nation with much profundity and turn right around and lose ourselves in a petty subject like this, Who really cares? Is it going to make such a big difference? It's like the smoker vs non-smoker war. That is going on all over the world but here it becomes incredibly confrontational. To the point of being bellicose and almost violent. We just have too much free time on our hands and get involved in this kind of thing. I guess everyone has to find an evelope to push.
 

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Inuyasha said:
As a young man I went to Asia and I thought a country like Japan would appear as an enigma or a paradox to me. But the truth is my own country is more of an enigma than anywhere on the planet. How we can be a nation with much profundity and turn right around and lose ourselves in a petty subject like this, Who really cares? Is it going to make such a big difference? It's like the smoker vs non-smoker war. That is going on all over the world but here it becomes incredibly confrontational. To the point of being bellicose and almost violent. We just have too much free time on our hands and get involved in this kind of thing. I guess everyone has to find an evelope to push.

There is a larger issue here for those of us who are fighting to 'save Christmas'. There is an underlying campaign going on the United States to slowly but pervasively contain, attack, and destroy values that have made America what is has been. Educators undermining parental teachings, abortion for convenience, changing the definition of marriage, scorning the flag, patriotism, and pride of country, banning religious art, music, and language from public forums, etc., all are relatively unimportant as individual incidents, but they assume great importance when considered as a whole and as a seminal shift in mindset that will inevitably destroy what is a unique American culture.

At some point, those of us who don't think this is such a good idea will pick a hill to defend.

I have no problem with the stores offering Happy Hannukah's or Happy Kwanza's though Hannukah was never celebrated with gift giving, etc. until Christmas became so popular, and without Christmas, Kwanza would not exist at all. The season is Christmas celebrating he birth of Jesus of Nazareth. That is the reason for all the lights and music and sights and sounds and special foods and parties as well as special religious observations.

A few mean spirited people who hate religion should not be allowed to make it into something else. Only the most hateful would resent the bell ringers raising funds to help the less fortunate have a little happier time at Christmas. Storekeepers should be advised that they do themselves no favors in caving into the caterwaulings of the mean spirited. It is not civil war or a revolution. It is simply people standing and defending the hill on something that is important to them.
 

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Just thought I would check in and see what is going on.

I still see a bunch of people missing the topic here, we're discussing the decision making on christian groups to boycott businesses simply because they are doing what they want to do and wish everyone a happy holidays.

Oh, by the way, to help you out, here is new list of businesses to boycott.
I went out last night and took notice that these shops didn't say Merry Christmas.

Cracker Barrel Restaraunt
Borders Bookstore

Borders even had a Hanukkah books and gifts little table, but I did not see anything for Christmas, so you should DEFINATELY boycott them, because they aren't including Christmas but giving Hanukkah its share of publicity. Also, I didnt' see anywhere in the store where they wished anyone a happy or merry anything. So they might as well be saying **** YOU. So definately boycott Borders on the lame ass principles that you wish to boycott on, because they aren't kissing Christian Asses.
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

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You know AlbqOwl if you're so keen on "defending Christmas" you should be THANKING these stores that don't put up "Merry Christmas" signs. After all, hasn't Christmas become overly commercialized in the past few decades? Looks like the stores are doing your work for you. The less people are slapped in the face with Christmas at every place of commerce the more likely they will be to remember the REAL meaning of Christmas.

But of course you insist on making it into some kind of conspiracy to oppression the Christians in the population, all 70% percent of them.
 

AlbqOwl

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
You know AlbqOwl if you're so keen on "defending Christmas" you should be THANKING these stores that don't put up "Merry Christmas" signs. After all, hasn't Christmas become overly commercialized in the past few decades? Looks like the stores are doing your work for you. The less people are slapped in the face with Christmas at every place of commerce the more likely they will be to remember the REAL meaning of Christmas.

But of course you insist on making it into some kind of conspiracy to oppression the Christians in the population, all 70% percent of them.

In all due respect, you cannot show that I make anything into a conspiracy nor have I mentioned any oppression of Christians. So why did you bring it up? Perhaps you would like to explain your agenda for participation on this thread.
 

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I have an idea,lets cancel Christmas. Keep the schools open,remove it as a holiday. Dont print special stamps,get the churches to discourage gift giving and card sending. That should make the secular humanist /liberals happy.
Now all those families that were going on vacation during Christmas might be a little miffed if they had to stay home,because the schools were open and those winter vacation spots might loose money. The post office woud loose millions, as would the card companies. Those stores that can't Say Christmas wouldn't be very crowded.
Yet they would not be offending anyone,thats what they want, right.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
I have an idea,lets cancel Christmas. Keep the schools open,remove it as a holiday. Dont print special stamps,get the churches to discourage gift giving and card sending. That should make the secular humanist /liberals happy.
Now all those families that were going on vacation during Christmas might be a little miffed if they had to stay home,because the schools were open and those winter vacation spots might loose money. The post office woud loose millions, as would the card companies. Those stores that can't Say Christmas wouldn't be very crowded.
Yet they would not be offending anyone,thats what they want, right.
Wow, seriously, talk about extreemism. Who cares? seriously. I'm glad Christmas is a national holiday, as is Thanksgiving and especially New years. I need those days off. But I think that Christmast is hardly the celebration of Jesus' Birthday, as factual evidence shows that he was born closer to thanksgiving anyway. I've always seen Christmas as a holiday celebration of good faith and charity towards everyone, more of the celebration of St. Nicholas' good will. Congratulations to all those of you hardcore fanatics on both sides of the argument that just have to make an issue out of nothing.
Happy holidays, great there is after all more than one holiday. Merry christmas great. I really don't get what all this "Oh I'm offended" is over. Please just dig a hole and bury yourself if that's your attitude, and leave the rest of us to enoy the vacation.
 

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jfuh said:
Wow, seriously, talk about extreemism. Who cares? seriously. I'm glad Christmas is a national holiday, as is Thanksgiving and especially New years. I need those days off. But I think that Christmast is hardly the celebration of Jesus' Birthday, as factual evidence shows that he was born closer to thanksgiving anyway. I've always seen Christmas as a holiday celebration of good faith and charity towards everyone, more of the celebration of St. Nicholas' good will. Congratulations to all those of you hardcore fanatics on both sides of the argument that just have to make an issue out of nothing.
Happy holidays, great there is after all more than one holiday. Merry christmas great. I really don't get what all this "Oh I'm offended" is over. Please just dig a hole and bury yourself if that's your attitude, and leave the rest of us to enoy the vacation.

It wouldn't be an issue if those who do not believe in the reason for the celebration or do not wish to celebrate it would just mind their own business and find something else to do. When they start trying to dictate to the rest of us how we should celerate the occasion, then it becomes an issue.
 

jfuh

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AlbqOwl said:
It wouldn't be an issue if those who do not believe in the reason for the celebration or do not wish to celebrate it would just mind their own business and find something else to do. When they start trying to dictate to the rest of us how we should celerate the occasion, then it becomes an issue.
NO punt intended, but seriously, oh tell so and so to keep thier mouth shut? Come on please, isn't that just the same thing? People that get so offended over nothing are idiots, why stoop to that level? Tis the season to be giving.
I don't know what happend in the last 10 years or so though when so many people just get offended over nothing. Have we become so rich we have nothing else better to do but whine and complain like a bunch of school kids? Whaaaaa so and so said such and such and it hurt my feelings. Come on, aren't we better than that?
 

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jfuh said:
NO punt intended, but seriously, oh tell so and so to keep thier mouth shut? Come on please, isn't that just the same thing? People that get so offended over nothing are idiots, why stoop to that level? Tis the season to be giving.
I don't know what happend in the last 10 years or so though when so many people just get offended over nothing. Have we become so rich we have nothing else better to do but whine and complain like a bunch of school kids? Whaaaaa so and so said such and such and it hurt my feelings. Come on, aren't we better than that?

Personally I do not believe there is any constitutional right to not have your feelngs hurt. And yes, we do get offended over ridiculous things these days. I am not offended by those who use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and have said so in this thread. I am offended by those who tell me that "Merry Christmas" is not appropriate and defnitely respect more those who are honest about what the season is and the reason behind it however badly we choose to celebrate it these days.
 

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AlbqOwl said:
Personally I do not believe there is any constitutional right to not have your feelngs hurt. And yes, we do get offended over ridiculous things these days. I am not offended by those who use "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and have said so in this thread. I am offended by those who tell me that "Merry Christmas" is not appropriate and defnitely respect more those who are honest about what the season is and the reason behind it however badly we choose to celebrate it these days.

Oh, who the **** do you think you are kidding? Your offended like hell, you've said so yourself, you go looking for stores that wish you a Merry Christmas and avoid those who don't.

And again, Im still wondering when this thread turned into Non-Christians being offended.
The only stuff that I have seen in the news recently is christians getting all butt-hurt because Christmas isn't held on a pedestal above the rest of the holiday of the season. The only reason Non-Christians should be offended is because Christians are getting angry about their holiday not being treated special and this makes it appear on a national scale that Christians don't give a **** about anyone else, which we know isn't true for all Christians, but due to the whining and bitching about the merge of all the holidays into a nice greeting like "Happy Holidays" pisses them off.

No, I don't get offended when someone tells me Merry Christmas, my waitress at Cracker Barrel last night told me Merry Christmas when we left, did I get offended and stingy with my tip? No, I still tipped generously because she could probably use the money for holiday shopping..... OH NO! I SAID HOLIDAY SHOPPING INSTEAD OF CHRISTMAS SHOPPING! Im going to HELL!
Do I boycott stores that display Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays? Hell no! They still provide the same ****ing products reguardless of which greeting they give me.

So, with that said, The only thing I have seen so far this year is the Christian groups complaining because Christmas isn't being treated special. And I'm sick of watching people like AlbqOwl try to turn this thread around backwards.

And for those of you who keep saying that "busineses should call the season what it is.. Christmas."....... Well, I just have one thing to say to you.... I wish you a Happy Chanukah and a Joyful New Year.

And if you don't like it... **** you.
 

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Caine said:
Oh, who the **** do you think you are kidding? Your offended like hell, you've said so yourself, you go looking for stores that wish you a Merry Christmas and avoid those who don't.

And again, Im still wondering when this thread turned into Non-Christians being offended.
The only stuff that I have seen in the news recently is christians getting all butt-hurt because Christmas isn't held on a pedestal above the rest of the holiday of the season. The only reason Non-Christians should be offended is because Christians are getting angry about their holiday not being treated special and this makes it appear on a national scale that Christians don't give a **** about anyone else, which we know isn't true for all Christians, but due to the whining and bitching about the merge of all the holidays into a nice greeting like "Happy Holidays" pisses them off.

No, I don't get offended when someone tells me Merry Christmas, my waitress at Cracker Barrel last night told me Merry Christmas when we left, did I get offended and stingy with my tip? No, I still tipped generously because she could probably use the money for holiday shopping..... OH NO! I SAID HOLIDAY SHOPPING INSTEAD OF CHRISTMAS SHOPPING! Im going to HELL!
Do I boycott stores that display Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays? Hell no! They still provide the same ****ing products reguardless of which greeting they give me.

So, with that said, The only thing I have seen so far this year is the Christian groups complaining because Christmas isn't being treated special. And I'm sick of watching people like AlbqOwl try to turn this thread around backwards.

And for those of you who keep saying that "busineses should call the season what it is.. Christmas."....... Well, I just have one thing to say to you.... I wish you a Happy Chanukah and a Joyful New Year.

And if you don't like it... **** you.

Thank you very much. And if you don't mind, I'll spend my time debating people who are not so ****ing angry, who actually read posts before commenting on them, who do not draw characterizations based on their own prejudices, and who can debate civilly without attacking or insulting other members. Those who cannot debate without insulting their opponent rarely have much to support their own opinions, anyway. You have my full permission not to read my posts that you find so offensive.
 

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AlbqOwl said:
It wouldn't be an issue if those who do not believe in the reason for the celebration or do not wish to celebrate it would just mind their own business and find something else to do. When they start trying to dictate to the rest of us how we should celerate the occasion, then it becomes an issue.

See....heres where I need to step into this mess. People of my faith have been celebrating this Holy Day for longer than the Bibles have existed. As far as I can tell, (and I have looked for some time) no one put up a stink when Christians took over the Time of Yule to celebrate Christs birth, and today Pagans really dont beyatch about it at all. Yet now we sit back and watch this rediculous panty twist unfold....and I am starting to get a little miffed.
While I really dont care much about the NAME of the celebrations...I do care about the negativity brought into what is to us an extremely important time of reflection and thankfulness.

Normally we celebrate the turning of seasons right now, and give thanks for what we have....I am tempted to simply give thanks that I am not Christian....Happy Freakin' Yule....and enjoy the Solstice
 

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tecoyah said:
See....heres where I need to step into this mess. People of my faith have been celebrating this Holy Day for longer than the Bibles have existed. As far as I can tell, (and I have looked for some time) no one put up a stink when Christians took over the Time of Yule to celebrate Christs birth, and today Pagans really dont beyatch about it at all. Yet now we sit back and watch this rediculous panty twist unfold....and I am starting to get a little miffed.
While I really dont care much about the NAME of the celebrations...I do care about the negativity brought into what is to us an extremely important time of reflection and thankfulness.

Normally we celebrate the turning of seasons right now, and give thanks for what we have....I am tempted to simply give thanks that I am not Christian....Happy Freakin' Yule....and enjoy the Solstice

But you see, Christians are not complaining about how you choose to celebrate this season or for whatever reason you celebrate it. Just as modern pagans have adopted feasts and festivals from their predecessors--there is no way you can honestly say that modern day pagans even resemble those predating the Roman Empire--Christians have taken the pagan holidays celebrated by their ancestors and "Christianized them" to conform to Christian beliefs that have evolved since the birth of Christ. This takes nothing away from their predecessors and harms nobody then or now.

But it is not the winter solstice nor the pagan yule that prompts the national holiday of Christmas in the United States and though the date of the Christian festival is near that of your own, it is a different date. I believe there would be little or no objection from anybody if the pagans wished to stage their own celebration(s). There is certainly no complaints when the Jews recognize and celebrate Hannukah which is also within the same period, but is marked by a different date.

I would vigorously defend the pagan or the Jew his/her right to celebrate their own religious festival and call it whatever they wish. Does it not logically follow that Christians should be afforded the same courtesy?
 

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AlbqOwl said:
Does it not logically follow that Christians should be afforded the same courtesy?

Yes...it does, and from what I can tell...no one is in any way stopping you from doing so...any more than they are for me. My interpretation is this:

A small number of vocal Christians are creating an issue over the use of the term "Merry Christmas", or lack of its use in advertising campaigns. This has led to boycotts and general uproar, in an attempt to compell people to say "Merry Christmas"....rather than "Happy Holidays"...or some such wish for a pleasant season.
If indeed I am incorrect it my observations....please set me straight. My point is, no one is telling you how to celebrate the birth of the Christ....they are simply trying to wish EVERYONE a joyous celebration....regardless of religious leaning. To claim this celebration as your own is rather selfish in my opinion, and misguided considering the birth is likely to have taken place months earlier. A second point covers the origin of this holiday....but that should have no bearing on the current issue. I just wish everyone would mellow out and focus on the REASONS for celebration...rather than what we call it.
 

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tecoyah said:
Yes...it does, and from what I can tell...no one is in any way stopping you from doing so...any more than they are for me. My interpretation is this:

A small number of vocal Christians are creating an issue over the use of the term "Merry Christmas", or lack of its use in advertising campaigns. This has led to boycotts and general uproar, in an attempt to compell people to say "Merry Christmas"....rather than "Happy Holidays"...or some such wish for a pleasant season.
If indeed I am incorrect it my observations....please set me straight. My point is, no one is telling you how to celebrate the birth of the Christ....they are simply trying to wish EVERYONE a joyous celebration....regardless of religious leaning. To claim this celebration as your own is rather selfish in my opinion, and misguided considering the birth is likely to have taken place months earlier. A second point covers the origin of this holiday....but that should have no bearing on the current issue. I just wish everyone would mellow out and focus on the REASONS for celebration...rather than what we call it.


I agree with this.
Note how the Owl did not reply to my comment about how wrong he is when he says things like...
AlbqOwl said:
I am offended by those who tell me that "Merry Christmas" is not appropriate and defnitely respect more those who are honest about what the season is and the reason behind it however badly we choose to celebrate it these days.

I guess the season is only christmas, reguardless of who you are, screw the non christians right? As for your comment about being angry, read one of Dregan's earlier posts, im just displaying the other side of the "angry for no reason" approach.
 

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tecoyah said:
Yes...it does, and from what I can tell...no one is in any way stopping you from doing so...any more than they are for me. My interpretation is this:

A small number of vocal Christians are creating an issue over the use of the term "Merry Christmas", or lack of its use in advertising campaigns. This has led to boycotts and general uproar, in an attempt to compell people to say "Merry Christmas"....rather than "Happy Holidays"...or some such wish for a pleasant season.
If indeed I am incorrect it my observations....please set me straight. My point is, no one is telling you how to celebrate the birth of the Christ....they are simply trying to wish EVERYONE a joyous celebration....regardless of religious leaning. To claim this celebration as your own is rather selfish in my opinion, and misguided considering the birth is likely to have taken place months earlier. A second point covers the origin of this holiday....but that should have no bearing on the current issue. I just wish everyone would mellow out and focus on the REASONS for celebration...rather than what we call it.

I suppose there are some fringe Christian groups calling for a boycott of "Happy Holidays", but these are the fringe and are in no way representative of the whole. I personally have a problem with store employees being told they can't say "Merry Christmas" to customers or relegating Christmas to second class status as Wal-Mart attempted to do. (Wal-Mart has since rescinded that policy and restored Christmas to its rightful place.)

But claim this celebration as my own as in Christian? It is. It is called CHRISTmas. It is named for the figure of Christ that is claimed as a diety by Christians alone. It is the celebration of the festival of that one person's birth that causes Christmas to be. Without it there in all probability be no special celebration at all. That Christians are perfectly willing to share this celebration with all others, believers and non believers alike, is neither exclusive nor prejudicial in my view.

This whole flap was a protest against an attempt to curb Christian enthusiasm for a festival that is unique to Christians, but which is adopted and recognized by anybody and everybody else. The Jews are equally entitled to celebrate Hannukah if they so choose and the pagans can celebrate anything they wish that might be significant to them.

Perhaps you could explain your rationale for why Christians should not claim and express the greeting that expresses a festival that was founded on the very Christ that they worship? And how is it harmful to you for them to do so?
 

Stace

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AlbqOwl said:
I suppose there are some fringe Christian groups calling for a boycott of "Happy Holidays", but these are the fringe and are in no way representative of the whole. I personally have a problem with store employees being told they can't say "Merry Christmas" to customers or relegating Christmas to second class status as Wal-Mart attempted to do. (Wal-Mart has since rescinded that policy and restored Christmas to its rightful place.)

I don't recall hearing anything about employees not being able to wish their customers a Merry Christmas if they so choose. The issue at hand is NOT about what people can and cannot say, because last time I checked, we did still have freedom of speech. I believe we all have brains of our own as well, and with that comes the ability to choose for yourself what you will say.

No, the issue was more over the advertising. It would be irresponsible of a public business to advertise for one holiday only. They serve customers of all faiths, and it would be against the principles which this country was founded on for them to seemingly endorse only one of the season's many holidays. Yes, that's right, Christmas is NOT the only holiday celebrated during the month of December. Christmas is no more important than any of the other celebrations, therefore, it has no "rightful place" in a public business.


But claim this celebration as my own as in Christian? It is. It is called CHRISTmas. It is named for the figure of Christ that is claimed as a diety by Christians alone. It is the celebration of the festival of that one person's birth that causes Christmas to be. Without it there in all probability be no special celebration at all. That Christians are perfectly willing to share this celebration with all others, believers and non believers alike, is neither exclusive nor prejudicial in my view.

Yes, it is called Christmas. And it probably wouldn't exist without the birth of Jesus. However, a little research will show, and as Tecoyah briefly mentioned, that the Church came up with celebrating Christmas as a way to compete, if you will, with the pagan celebrations of the season. Many icons of the Christmas holiday are actually taken from other celebrations...I could go on and on about what Christianity has....borrowed...from pagan and other beliefs, and not just for Christmas, either. Point being, there were celebrations during this time of year long before Christmas came about. People of other faiths do not want to "share" Christmas with the Christians....they want to celebrate their own holidays, which are just as important to them as Christmas is to Christians.


This whole flap was a protest against an attempt to curb Christian enthusiasm for a festival that is unique to Christians, but which is adopted and recognized by anybody and everybody else. The Jews are equally entitled to celebrate Hannukah if they so choose and the pagans can celebrate anything they wish that might be significant to them.

Again, Christmas is not entirely unique to Christians. Just about the only thing that hasn't been adopted from another faith or celebration is Jesus himself, and many people do not focus on that as a reason for Christmas anymore...they're all about the food and gifts.

If you want to talk about "curbing Christian enthusiasm" over Christmas, I suggest you do a little research into the history of Christmas, especially the era where Christmas was completely banned....even here in the United States.

And, gee, thanks for giving the rest of us permission to celebrate something other than Christmas. :roll:


Perhaps you could explain your rationale for why Christians should not claim and express the greeting that expresses a festival that was founded on the very Christ that they worship? And how is it harmful to you for them to do so?

Christians can say whatever they like. But again, the point is about the advertising being displayed. "Happy Holidays" is not a snub at Christmas...it is about recognizing the fact that Christmas is NOT the only holiday celebrated this month, and using an expression that includes all celebrations of the season, without making any one seem more important than the next.

Happy December!
 
I

inventr1

The anchor then asked him, "Do you want all crosses off of pubic property, what about the crosses at Arlington" he said there were none, they showed him the thousands, then he said "well if they are there, then they should be removed as well" Now I don't see this happening, not over my dead body anyway, but this is the length these people will go to, to remove everything religious.

Hello All,

As the National Spokesperson for American Atheists I often get misquoted. The above statement is not true -- I made no such comment and support no such action.

American Atheists is suing to remove 12-foot-tall crosses (no stars, no crescents), from the side of the highways in Utah. These are gratuitous religious displays which surely show a one-sided support for one religion, and are illegal.

Bill O'reilly asked one of our representatives (not me) about the Arlington Cemetary, and our person was so put-off by the absurdity of the remark that he stumbled. Since then that's all we've heard about. It is not true. American Atheists is not about infringing on the rights of believers on their own grave stones.

The separation of church and state supports and protects believers and nonbelievers alike. We all need to stick to the matter at hand, and not assume the imagined.

David Silverman
National Spokesperson
American Atheists
http://www.nogodblog.com
 

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Stace writes
I don't recall hearing anything about employees not being able to wish their customers a Merry Christmas if they so choose. The issue at hand is NOT about what people can and cannot say, because last time I checked, we did still have freedom of speech. I believe we all have brains of our own as well, and with that comes the ability to choose for yourself what you will say.

Then you haven't read this entire thread and you haven't been paying attention. It first hit the papers when Wendy's employees were ordered not to wish anyone a "Merry Christmas". Others followed suit. When it became obvious that this was generating negative publicity, some rescinded the order.
 

Stace

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AlbqOwl said:
Then you haven't read this entire thread and you haven't been paying attention. It first hit the papers when Wendy's employees were ordered not to wish anyone a "Merry Christmas". Others followed suit. When it became obvious that this was generating negative publicity, some rescinded the order.

Then please, provide me with sources so that I may be enlightened. to this. I apologize if I did indeed miss something here.
 

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Stace said:
Then please, provide me with sources so that I may be enlightened. to this. I apologize if I did indeed miss something here.

I first heard of the Wendy's policy at one of our local stores a week or so ago and then read of it in other places. Our local Wal-Mart also initiated a similar nation-wide policy before so many customers complained that they rescinded it. Other such phenomena is mentioned in this rather lengthy thread.

No need to apologize, however. I wouldn't have believed it either if it had not been explained to me by those operating under such a presumed politically correct dictate.
 
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