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Hamas will never change

NatMorton said:
While details still need to be confirmed, there are reports that Hamas is now summarily executing people whom they believe to be rivals in the struggle to regain power in Gaza.


What's the over/under for when Hamas launches its next attack on Israel, three months? Six? Twelve?

They are, in a word, barbaric.
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I seldom agree with you, but this is one of those times. I suspect though it will take several years before they are able to launch such an organized attack again, but they will eventually do so or some other similar organization. I would not be surprised if they once again attacked us as we provided the weapons that allowed the Israelis to kill 60 thousand Palestinians which almost half were childre,
.
 
cpwill said:
If you think that Kirk was a crazy racist and a mysogynist, it may be worth reflecting on whether you are part of the problem being described here. 🤷‍♂️
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@Tettsuo, upon re-reading, this comes across as more personal and contentious than I meant it to. My point was that I think you may be over-applying the same accusation that I've described the left as doing broadly, the later having resulted in delegitimizing it. If it read as more pointed than that, please accept my apologies.
 
Felis Leo said:
I prefer defending the Palestinian people.
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Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of the clans and groups now attempting to seek freedom from HAMAS?
 
cpwill said:
@Tettsuo, upon re-reading, this comes across as more personal and contentious than I meant it to. My point was that I think you may be over-applying the same accusation that I've described the left as doing broadly, the later having resulted in delegitimizing it. If it read as more pointed than that, please accept my apologies.
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No need for apologies. I got your meaning. We just don't see eye to eye on the topic we were discussing.

I'm sure that you, just like I, didn't expect to change the other's mind. But, we both want to give the other something to think about going forward.

I'm also sure if you and I met IRL, we'd be completely cool with one another. I can't say the same for every Conservative-minded poster on this forum, though.
 
Deuce said:
Imagine just admitting that you don't think feeding starving people is worth the effort.

Right wingers just don't have any sort of humanity left in them.
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They don't want to feed school kids in their own country.
 
Atreus21 said:
They should be hunted down and destroyed to the last man with at least as much fervor as if we were hunting fugitive members of the third Reich. Reality keeps asserting itself, and we keep living in la-la land.
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So…. Not hunted down at all, then? Because after 1950 the U.S. really couldn’t care less about what the Nazis did, and actively recruited some of the worst war criminals, such as Klaus Barbie, to work for it.
 
cpwill said:
Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of the clans and groups now attempting to seek freedom from HAMAS?
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I do not have enough knowledge of them to comment one way or the other. But I have little interest in backing another armed gang that is just as thuggish and brutal as Hamas, but is only considered acceptable because they are ready to act as Israel's dogs, willing to oppress and kill their own for scraps from Israel.
 
NatMorton said:
I think more than anything else you prefer to appear virtuous.
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NatMorton said:
And, of course, you're not virtue signaling (again.)
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I believe @Felis Leo has fallen into a dark, dark, place. He himself has described what he's been through as a "radicalization" process. I worry his rage has supplanted his reason on this topic, and believe he has come to feel more comfortable with misinformation that allow him to maintain a clean picture of Israel as Perfectly Evil and Palestinians as Perfect Victims than more complex, complicated, and accurate data would allow. Suffice to say, I believe we are deeply opposed on this topic both in our conclusions and in the means by which we arrive at them.

I say that to then say that this description of his motives is inapt. @Felis Leo has consistently been honest about where he himself is, and where he himself is coming from. He says what he honestly feels - there has never been from him a hint of dishonestly staking a claim to make himself look good. If he was motivated as you describe, he never would have given up his reputation in-house as one of our most reasonable and intelligent conservatives to switch sides when he felt driven to do so. He is one of the most direct and honest posters on this board.
 
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Tigerace117 said:
So…. Not hunted down at all, then? Because after 1950 the U.S. really couldn’t care less about what the Nazis did, and actively recruited some of the worst war criminals, such as Klaus Barbie, to work for it.
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Okay, they should be hunted down and executed the same way Adolf Eichmann was. How's that?
 
Atreus21 said:
Okay, they should be hunted down and executed the same way Adolf Eichmann was. How's that?
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Israeli war criminals absolutely should be hunted down, yes. We can start with Bibi and his pals, I suppose, and go down the list.

After all, they’ve committed far worse atrocities than Hamas has in a fraction of the time. Might as well start with the big fish.
 
cpwill said:
I believe @Felis Leo has fallen into a dark, dark, place. He himself has described what he's been through as a "radicalization" process. I worry his rage has supplanted his reason on this topic, and believe he has come to feel more comfortable with misinformation that allow him to maintain a clean picture of Israel as Perfectly Evil and Palestinians as Perfect Victims than more complex, complicated, and accurate data would allow. Suffice to say, I believe we are deeply opposed on this topic both in our conclusions and in the means by which we arrive at them.

I say that to then say that this description of his motives is inapt. @Felis Leo has consistently been honest about where he himself is, and where he himself is coming from. He says what he honestly feels - there has never been from him a hint of dishonestly staking a claim to make himself look good. If he was motivated as you describe, he never would have given up his reputation in-house as one of our most reasonable and intelligent conservatives to switch sides when he felt driven to do so. He is one of the most direct and honest posters on this board.
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Sorry, no. We've all seen the change in his views, and that's fine, but more recently I've also found some of his posts to be quite dishonest. And I think you've seen it, too. Being "comfortable with misinformation" is just another way of saying "he's willing to lie." It's rather a shame.
 
NatMorton said:
Sorry, no. We've all seen the change in his views, and that's fine, but more recently I've also found some of his posts to be quite dishonest. And I think you've seen it, too. Being "comfortable with misinformation" is just another way of saying "he's willing to lie." It's rather a shame.
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It is certainly not intended to mean that, no, unless you intend to say he is lying to himself (and only he would be able to know) in being driven by his emotional responses.

As to the specific charge, however, I retain my position: It is inapt. I have never seen @Felis Leo attempt to posture for the moral approval of anyone.
 
NatMorton said:
I realize this may be a stretch, but not every world event is a relevant opportunity for you to talk about Trump.
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To all those afflicted with terminal TDS, no event cannot be drafted as a means of bashing Trump.
 
Felis Leo said:
I do not have enough knowledge of them to comment one way or the other. But I have little interest in backing another armed gang that is just as thuggish and brutal as Hamas, but is only considered acceptable because they are ready to act as Israel's dogs, willing to oppress and kill their own for scraps from Israel.
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And the Clans who just want to be left alone and run themselves?
 
NatMorton said:
And, of course, you're not virtue signaling (again.)
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What's all the "but Hamas..." bullshit, if not Right Wing virtue signaling?

Are you lacking in empathy so much you find it hard to imagine another human being might be appalled by the civilian cost of this war?

You know you're wrong, you've run out of excuses, so instead of defending your glee for genocide you accuse others of faking their concern.
 
uptower said:
What's all the "but Hamas..." bullshit, if not Right Wing virtue signaling?

Are you lacking in empathy so much you find it hard to imagine another human being might be appalled by the civilian cost of this war?

You know you're wrong, you've run out of excuses, so instead of defending your glee for genocide you accuse others of faking their concern.
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You're lying, but we both know that.
 
NatMorton said:
While details still need to be confirmed, there are reports that Hamas is now summarily executing people whom they believe to be rivals in the struggle to regain power in Gaza.


What's the over/under for when Hamas launches its next attack on Israel, three months? Six? Twelve?

They are, in a word, barbaric.
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Expecting Hamas to now play nice is like trying to enter a rabid Saint Bernard into the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show.
 
NatMorton said:
At what point in Hamas's 40 year arc should we have expected them to "play nice?"
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Keep in mind that their mission is to destroy Israel and create a Palestinian state ‘from the river to the sea’.
 
uptower said:
I believe Leo is appalled by the cost to Gaza's civilians. It just so happens much of the world is.
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Were this 1944 we could be appalled by the loss of German civilians. Should that have ended WWII with the Nazis remaining in power?
 
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