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Gun control sure works NOT

RaleBulgarian

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Not sure how the apprehension of an infamous hit man has anything to do with gun control. Granted, most hit men probably do obtain their firearms illegally, but you’re kinda stretching the argument here.
 

bongsaway

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Here we have a shooting in the UK which has some of the strictest gun control in the world. So this just goes to show the ineffectiveness of gun control.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/hitma...crime-boss-mr-big-caught-by-gps-running-watch

False. There are roughly fifty to sixty gun deaths a year in the u.k. Conversely in america we have one hundred and sixty times the gun deaths that the u.k. has. Tell Japan, Australia and Norway nothing can be done and see if they agree. Gun control does work, it's the gun owners who disagree.
 

DebateChallenge

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False. There are roughly fifty to sixty gun deaths a year in the u.k. Conversely in america we have one hundred and sixty times the gun deaths that the u.k. has. Tell Japan, Australia and Norway nothing can be done and see if they agree. Gun control does work, it's the gun owners who disagree.

Number one, the USA has a much larger population than the UK so that also has to be taken into consideration because its only proper to talk about gun deaths in proportion to the number of people. Fifty to sixty sounds like quite a bit when you look at the U.K.'s much smaller size and much smaller population.

Number two, even if the USA does have a much higher gun death rate than Japan, Australia, or Norway, that doesn't mean the premature death rate overall is higher in the USA. Its not fair to look at just gun deaths, if you're going to look at gun deaths its only fair to look at all premature deaths along with it. Having more guns will result in more gun deaths, that's sensible, but that doesn't mean having more guns will lead to more premature deaths overall. The thing to do is to look at how the availability of guns affects the premature death rate.

Number three, most gun deaths in the USA are either suicides or gang related killings where gangsters kill other gangsters.
 

bongsaway

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Number one, the USA has a much larger population than the UK so that also has to be taken into consideration because its only proper to talk about gun deaths in proportion to the number of people. Fifty to sixty sounds like quite a bit when you look at the U.K.'s much smaller size and much smaller population.

Number two, even if the USA does have a much higher gun death rate than Japan, Australia, or Norway, that doesn't mean the premature death rate overall is higher in the USA. Its not fair to look at just gun deaths, if you're going to look at gun deaths its only fair to look at all premature deaths along with it. Having more guns will result in more gun deaths, that's sensible, but that doesn't mean having more guns will lead to more premature deaths overall. The thing to do is to look at how the availability of guns affects the premature death rate.

Number three, most gun deaths in the USA are either suicides or gang related killings where gangsters kill other gangsters.

Fifty something shootings a year in a country with fifty million something folks seems low to me. We can do that in the united states in a year in many cities. Number 16 on most dangerous cities in america: Memphis Tennessee, population 657,936 number of murders in 2015, 135. That's 20.52 murders for every one hundred thousand folks. In other words, oodles and oodles of murders in one medium sized city.
 

Manc Skipper

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Britain only banned handguns, so as bongsaway has covered the rest so well, I'll merely post this.

firearms-britain-menaced.jpg
 

DebateChallenge

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Fifty something shootings a year in a country with fifty million something folks seems low to me.

The UK has a much lower population than fifty million, you don't find that many people living in a country that's only about the size of the state of PA.
 

Bullseye

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False. There are roughly fifty to sixty gun deaths a year in the u.k. Conversely in america we have one hundred and sixty times the gun deaths that the u.k. has. Tell Japan, Australia and Norway nothing can be done and see if they agree. Gun control does work, it's the gun owners who disagree.
The old "but mommy, all the other kids are doing it" argument - mom never bought, and neither do most thinking people.
 

Manc Skipper

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The UK has a much lower population than fifty million, you don't find that many people living in a country that's only about the size of the state of PA.

Had you bothered to look it up you'd know that the UK population is 66 million, or to put it another way, about a sixth of the USA. More people than California and Texas combined. All in a space the size of Alabama. You really shouldn't dive in unarmed like this, you're embarrassing your friends.
 
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bongsaway

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The old "but mommy, all the other kids are doing it" argument - mom never bought, and neither do most thinking people.

Eye, please show me what is incorrect in my statement before you comment about thinking people. Thanks in advance.
 

Bullseye

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Eye, please show me what is incorrect in my statement before you comment about thinking people. Thanks in advance.
We are not any of the countries you listed. So arguments that imply "if we just did what <fill in the country of your choice> all our problems would be solved" apply to emotion but not logic.
 

bongsaway

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We are not any of the countries you listed. So arguments that imply "if we just did what <fill in the country of your choice> all our problems would be solved" apply to emotion but not logic.

Correct, no amount of logic or emotion will sway the thinking of gun owning america. No amount of mass shootings will change anything. No amount of kids being killed in school matters, at concerts, in church and everywhere else in america. By god, you have your rights and they trump anyone else's rights. I think my right to not be shot trumps your right to carry a concealed weapon in public. Even in the 'wild' west folks had to turn in their weapons while in town. Ok, your turn. Tell me why I'm wrong.
 

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Correct, no amount of logic or emotion will sway the thinking of gun owning america. No amount of mass shootings will change anything. No amount of kids being killed in school matters, at concerts, in church and everywhere else in america. By god, you have your rights and they trump anyone else's rights. I think my right to not be shot trumps your right to carry a concealed weapon in public. Even in the 'wild' west folks had to turn in their weapons while in town. Ok, your turn. Tell me why I'm wrong.
Your entire portrayal of "gun owning America" is wrong, for starters, and throwing in a classic "appeal to emotions" logical fallacy argument doesn't help you case, either.
 

DebateChallenge

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Correct, no amount of logic or emotion will sway the thinking of gun owning america.
You're right that emotion won't sway the gun owning crowd but as for logic, its the gun owning crowd that has logic and that's why they think the way they do. The gun control crowd has the emotion.

No amount of mass shootings will change anything.
As a matter of fact it does. More mass shootings make it more urgent to have armed security. With armed security, that's how we stop mass shooters and mass shootings. Its too bad that it has to come to this, that we need to have mass shootings to show just how important it is to have armed security, if we had more armed security we would have less mass shootings in the first place.

No amount of kids being killed in school matters, at concerts, in church and everywhere else in america.
See above.

By god, you have your rights and they trump anyone else's rights.
In no way do my rights trump yours.

I think my right to not be shot trumps your right to carry a concealed weapon in public.
My right to carry a concealed weapon in public does not infringe on your right to not be shot. Just because you have the right to carry a concealed weapon doesn't mean you have the right to shoot innocent people. I will assume, for now, that you're an innocent person.

Even in the 'wild' west folks had to turn in their weapons while in town. Ok, your turn. Tell me why I'm wrong.
The only town I can think of where they had to do that was Dodge City. BTW shootouts in the wild west were very very rare, much more rare than you might think. Its not like in the movies where Hollywood makes it seem like there were gazillion shootouts every day. You watch too many cowboy movies.
As for why you're wrong, see above.
 

bongsaway

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You're right that emotion won't sway the gun owning crowd but as for logic, its the gun owning crowd that has logic and that's why they think the way they do. The gun control crowd has the emotion.


As a matter of fact it does. More mass shootings make it more urgent to have armed security. With armed security, that's how we stop mass shooters and mass shootings. Its too bad that it has to come to this, that we need to have mass shootings to show just how important it is to have armed security, if we had more armed security we would have less mass shootings in the first place.


See above.


In no way do my rights trump yours.


My right to carry a concealed weapon in public does not infringe on your right to not be shot. Just because you have the right to carry a concealed weapon doesn't mean you have the right to shoot innocent people. I will assume, for now, that you're an innocent person.


The only town I can think of where they had to do that was Dodge City. BTW shootouts in the wild west were very very rare, much more rare than you might think. Its not like in the movies where Hollywood makes it seem like there were gazillion shootouts every day. You watch too many cowboy movies.
As for why you're wrong, see above.

I don't watch any cowboy movies but I do watch my fair share of the history channel. So your logic says more armed security will do the trick. By that thinking when we all have to drive around in armored vehicles for our own safety, that will be normal too. You know, to protect ourselves from crazies with guns.
 

TurtleDude

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False. There are roughly fifty to sixty gun deaths a year in the u.k. Conversely in america we have one hundred and sixty times the gun deaths that the u.k. has. Tell Japan, Australia and Norway nothing can be done and see if they agree. Gun control does work, it's the gun owners who disagree.

gun control that is constitutional only works for the purpose that its proponents intend-to harass honest gun owners while pandering to slow witted dullards who think that people who commit mass murder or gang killings will follow a gun law
 

bongsaway

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gun control that is constitutional only works for the purpose that its proponents intend-to harass honest gun owners while pandering to slow witted dullards who think that people who commit mass murder or gang killings will follow a gun law

Does this fall under the heading of guns don't kill people?
 

TurtleDude

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Does this fall under the heading of guns don't kill people?

bullets do the killing. I have lots of guns. they have never killed anyone.
 

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So in the UK they changed tactics - record numbers of knife attacks (ban those), acid attacks (ban that), car attacks (bank those). Seems like a pattern. Perhaps it wasn't the guns after all, as criminals will always find another way
 

kayness

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And way more likely to be stabbed, attacked with acid, or run down in a vehicle. yay?
 

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Try using some logic. Do you think limiting the magazine capacity will change anything? Yes, for the law abiding. Do you think a gang member going out to do an initiation will say, "hey dude, got another magazine? This one carries 14 rounds, and the law says I can only have 10"? Or that before someone commits a mass shooting they make sure their carry permit is inorder? Seriously, your argument is full of holes - pun intended. Make more laws, and the law abiding will follow them. The criminals? Not so much. They will be happy, however, when we are all helpless in our gun free zones. They will know where to attack
 

DebateChallenge

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I don't watch any cowboy movies but I do watch my fair share of the history channel. So your logic says more armed security will do the trick. By that thinking when we all have to drive around in armored vehicles for our own safety, that will be normal too. You know, to protect ourselves from crazies with guns.

If you know your history about the "wild west" than you would know that shootouts, unlike what Hollywood portrays, were not all that common. As for driving around in armored vehicles, that depends, if you're transporting large amounts of cash from place to place than it would make sense to drive in armored vehicles, but not your ordinary everyday person who does not drive around with large amounts of cash. I've never driven armored vehicles and I've never needed to. Yes armed security does make public places safer. Where I go to the beach and the boardwalk there are thousands and thousands of people there during the summer when it gets really busy. There has never been any mass shootings or bombings there although it might make an ideal target for somebody who wants to do that since there's so many people there. Why has there never been a mass shooting or bombing at the beach? Because of the armed security there. They've got really good armed security and as such its really safe there.
 
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