Gun control ad - 1981

[vegas giants]

Except getting you to accept a True Debate on the topic

I'd love to. I am on vacation now so can only check in but when I am back let's do it

 

[vegas giants]

Using that logic then we shouldn't compare the US to other countries as far as firearm deaths are concerned.

Let's compare parts of the US then. States with lax gun laws have the most gun deaths

 

[jonny5]

Over 10k excess deaths in 1980. That number has only increased... which means the US has had almost 400,000 additional excess deaths since then.

But think of the FREEDOM!

How many lives have they saved?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Let's compare parts of the US then. States with lax gun laws have the most gun deaths

It makes sense they would. But states will less lax gun laws have more premature deaths from other causes.

 

[vegas giants]

It makes sense they would. But states will less lax gun laws have more premature deaths from other causes.

Prove that with verifiable evidence

 

[ataraxia]

Ah, yes, the good ol' "But mommy all the other kids are doing". And toss in the NRA bogeyman. And for bonus points drop in TOBACCO.

Ah yes, the old " 'There is nothing we can do', says the only developed country on the planet where large scale massacres happen regularly". Then toss in how minutemen in the 18th century were free to carry around any weapon they pleased, and that's why we should be allowed to haul around nuclear ordnanaces. And bonus points for throwing in LIBERALS!

 

[ataraxia]

Which is clear evidence that banning guns won't make a dent in our suicide rate. Anti-2nd amendment trash usually respond with But Japan is a different culture while at the same time comparing the gun deaths in this country to that of other countries.

When a cultural practice is proving to be dysfunctional, smart cultures learn to change. Even Saudi Arabia is letting women drive now. India is getting rid of its caste system. Previously cannibalistic cultures are stopping the practice. Time for America to realize it's OK to have some sane regulations and restrictions on firearms, just like it does on any dangerous tools or equipment.

 

[it's just me]

Ah yes, the old " 'There is nothing we can do', says the only country on the planet where these things happen regularly". Then toss in how minutemen in the 18th century were free to carry around any weapon they pleased, and that's why we should be allowed to haul around nuclear ordnanaces. And bonus points for throwing in LIBERALS!

At least I carry my nuclear warheads openly so everybody knows I have them.

 

[ataraxia]

At least I carry my nuclear warheads openly so everybody knows I have them.

I have a bumper sticker on my rear bumper that says "keep honking, I am loading your coordinates into my ICBM right now".

 

[jamesrage]

When a cultural practice is proving to be dysfunctional, smart cultures learn to change. Even Saudi Arabia is letting women drive now. India is getting rid of its caste system. Previously cannibalistic cultures are stopping the practice. Time for America to realize it's OK to have some sane regulations and restrictions on firearms, just like it does on any dangerous tools or equipment.

What you define as sane is not what 2nd amendment advocates would define as sane.

 

[Thoreau72]

What are excess deaths? A certain amount are authorized by the government, and anything more is excess? Some are justified, and the rest are excess?

 

[ataraxia]

What you define as sane is not what 2nd amendment advocates would define as sane.

Mental health specialists define insanity as behavior or mindsets which create dysfunctional situations. As weapons technology continues to evolve, the mindset that 18th century laws made for 18th century technology need to be clung to as something absolutely sacred and inviolable will become increasingly dysfunctional. It already has, of course. It’s just a matter of how bad it has to get before even the most insane among the advocates have to cry uncle.

 

[vegas giants]

What are excess deaths? A certain amount are authorized by the government, and anything more is excess? Some are justified, and the rest are excess?

When we have 25 times the rate of other developed countries I would call that excess

 

[Rucker61]

When a cultural practice is proving to be dysfunctional, smart cultures learn to change. Even Saudi Arabia is letting women drive now. India is getting rid of its caste system. Previously cannibalistic cultures are stopping the practice. Time for America to realize it's OK to have some sane regulations and restrictions on firearms, just like it does on any dangerous tools or equipment.

But many dangerous tools and equipment have almost no regulations.

We'll support laws that are Constitutional, effective, enforceable and necessary. Feel free to propose them.

 

[Thoreau72]

When we have 25 times the rate of other developed countries I would call that excess

I see your point, but you must keep in mind that we are a violent country. Our government flogs the rule of law and institutionalized torture. Our government does things differently than the rest of the world, and that is why we have stayed out of the ICC.

Violence begets violence, unfortunately, and guns are part of the culture here, just as they are part of all cultures. Firearms were not invented in the US.

 

[Rucker61]

Mental health specialists define insanity as behavior or mindsets which create dysfunctional situations. As weapons technology continues to evolve, the mindset that 18th century laws made for 18th century technology need to be clung to as something absolutely sacred and inviolable will become increasingly dysfunctional. It already has, of course. It’s just a matter of how bad it has to get before even the most insane among the advocates have to cry uncle.

The last school mass shooting we had was conducted with a .38 revolver and a pump shotgun - 19th century technology.

 

[ataraxia]

What you define as sane is not what 2nd amendment advocates would define as sane.

We can argue the details, and exactly where to draw the lines. That’s where rational discourse comes in. But this mindset that any regulation is a slippery slope to Soviet style communist dictatorship is a highly dysfunctional mindset.

 

[ataraxia]

The last school mass shooting we had was conducted with a .38 revolver and a pump shotgun - 19th century technology.

People of been run over and killed by bicycles too. Does that mean all cars should be street legal now? And get rid of all those oppressive big gubmint traffic lights?

 

[ataraxia]

But many dangerous tools and equipment have almost no regulations.

.

I don’t know exactly what you have in mind, but I can’t think of anything off hand.

 

[vegas giants]

I see your point, but you must keep in mind that we are a violent country. Our government flogs the rule of law and institutionalized torture. Our government does things differently than the rest of the world, and that is why we have stayed out of the ICC.

Violence begets violence, unfortunately, and guns are part of the culture here, just as they are part of all cultures. Firearms were not invented in the US.

Time for the culture to change. We were a slave owning culture at one time too

 

[ttwtt78640]

Time for the culture to change. We were a slave owning culture at one time too

Yep, and that change took a civil war and multiple constitutional amendments to implement.

 

[Rucker61]

People of been run over and killed by bicycles too. Does that mean all cars should be street legal now? And get rid of all those oppressive big gubmint traffic lights?

As I said, feel free to propose Constitutional, effective, enforceable and necessary laws for discussion. I was just pointing out that 19th century weapon tech, which wouldn't be affected by any proposals I've seen, are still effective in mass shootings.

 

[Rucker61]

We can argue the details, and exactly where to draw the lines. That’s where rational discourse comes in. But this mindset that any regulation is a slippery slope to Soviet style communist dictatorship is a highly dysfunctional mindset.

Feel free to propose any Constitutional, effective, enforceable and necessary laws for discussion. I believe the concern is that new bans and restrictions will prove to be ineffective and will lead to further ineffective bans and restrictions. At least that's what Pelosi wants.

 

[Thoreau72]

Time for the culture to change. We were a slave owning culture at one time too

Aren't we still? Many working in prison say they are effectively slaves, and of course the exception is provided for in the founding document, 5th and 13th amendments.

 

[TurtleDude]

We can argue the details, and exactly where to draw the lines. That’s where rational discourse comes in. But this mindset that any regulation is a slippery slope to Soviet style communist dictatorship is a highly dysfunctional mindset.

yet look at reality

machine guns were de facto banned (that was what the ATF admits was the purpose of the 1934 tax scheme) right as they were becoming available for private purchase. there were almost no crimes committed by privately owed machine guns legally acquired (the gangsters in the prohibition era got most of their guns from police or NG arsenals-few were available for sale to private citizens and the depression era further retarded sales of the few available. hand held automatic weapons were just starting to emerge in the late 20s and early 30s) Before or after this de facto ban. YET DESPITE NO MURDERS committed by private citizens using legally owned machine guns for FIFTY YEARS, the Democrats banned private citizens being able to buy any new MGs made after May 19, 1986 This proves that even if there is no crime reason, Democrats want to ban stuff

then we have NYS. in the assault weapon hysteria 25 or so years ago, NYS decided that only criminals should have 10+ round magazines. a couple years ago, the odious Cuomo tried to push a 7 round magazine limit on people. more slippery slope

California is a text book example of slippery slopes as that idiotic state government constantly imposes more and more stupid punitive laws on legal gun owners. they even tried to make it a crime to possess a magazine that had been legally purchased in California and never misused.