Greatest Military of All Time?

[Evilroddy]

Continued from post # 90.

During and after the Byzantine period the next dominant militaries came from the steppes of Eurasia. The most dominant of these were the Imperial Mongol armies. Excellent and disciplined horse archers and lance armed heavy cavalry, effective client and tribal infantry, the adoption of good siege technology and mobility were the hallmarks of these armies which made them an unstoppable juggernaut from the land-seas of the Eurasian steppe. Next up were the early Ottoman Turks who while not as well disciplined as the Mongols added effective gun powder artillery to their military inventory. Next up were the Swedes from Gustavos Adophus to the end of Charles XII's reign. These were pike and shot armies with excellent artillery which conquered much of Eastern Europe. Next was the Prussian Army of Fredrick the Great which humbled most other European foes despite being offer out numbered and out gunned. Training and professionalism were its strengths as well as excellent logistics given the time period. Next up were the mass conscription armies of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars which simply overwhelmed its opponents signally until the Russian debacle. Next is the American Union Army in the late years of the Civil War and the Federal Army immediately after the civil war. Then we shift back to the post unification German Army from 1870 to 1917/1918. We stay with Germany for the early years of World War Two but by 1943 it is eclipsed by the Soviet Red Army. The Soviets pushed ahead due to mass mechanisation and both huge and effective tank forces. The Red Army remains tops until some time between 1975-1985 when the US Army surpasses the Red Army with outstanding military weapons technology, excellent logistics, overwhelming air power and superb professionalism and training. The US Armed Forces remains top dog to this day and has added superb digitally mediated command and control to its already overwhelming strengths.

So that it in a nutshell. I have left out militaries which, while excellent, lacked the numbers or opportunity to demonstrate their greatness in any significant way.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[hado117]

IMO military of all time. Ghengis Kahn and the Mongols.

In terms of US,the Revolutionary war era.

should the mongols be considered a military? or a force or group? I dont think they were organized in the sense of a military in more recent history. if we are talking about a force I would think of many groups more powerful than any military in the last 250 years.

 

[Jack Hays]

should the mongols be considered a military? or a force or group? I dont think they were organized in the sense of a military in more recent history. if we are talking about a force I would think of many groups more powerful than any military in the last 250 years.

The Mongols were quite organized.

 

[Fledermaus]

should the mongols be considered a military? or a force or group? I dont think they were organized in the sense of a military in more recent history. if we are talking about a force I would think of many groups more powerful than any military in the last 250 years.

Actually they were very organized for the times.

Tumens, Mingghans, etc. Based on 10 scale. Tumen - tens of thousands Mingghans, thousands, etc.

An elite force called Kheshig functioned as a training group for officers. A sort of Imperial Gurad / Academy...

They had organized supply trains. They developed a pony express style mail and communication web. The first mail system since Roman times.

They had spies in place almost a decade before invading Europe.

And commanders were often promoted on merit rather than blood line.

 

[Higgins86]

Strictly speaking "military" refers to ground forces.

Japanese Samurai ? Seriously ?
Who did they ever beat ?

The Spartans ?
What did they achieve ?

Spanish Conquistadors ?
Who did they ever beat ?

By redcoats do you mean the British army during the period they wore red?
The British army has never been that powerful - except perhaps in WWI
The power behind the British Empire was the Royal Navy

:lamo...mate

 

[IrishUSMC]

Well, I am of course biased on this one...but I will say this. I have googled this question and found that the "Majority" of actual historians, and people (of various nationalities...mostly they seem to be American, British, German and French...but their are a few other as well), basically actually do or have concluded that the US Military is the single most powerful not only currently but in history. Each of these academics have views as to why this is. some of these views are the same across the board, and some are unique to whomever is giving his/her opinion.

For instance. One thing you do have to member is America has the luxury of living in an age of very high technology, which we take extreme advantage of, due to our wealth and economy. The Romans were a superb military machine...but sadly no fighter jets, no aircraft carriers, no submarines, no space stuff...I think you all get the point.

but, let's forget all that great stuff. The basic best way I heard it put was when I was with 1st Force Recon, and Later with Second Battalion MARSOC. I had the honor of being able to talk to a very good friend who joined the Navy...he became a SEAL, then he made it into Team SIX. Both of us did three very fun (being sarcastic here) tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We were stationed in Afghanistan at the same time once, and I was able to catch up with him and we talked about a lot of stuff. There was a Brit who joined us at one point (really nice guy, very cool). He was SAS. I never asked about that, but you kind of just know the players after a while. So we get to talking about best world military's and best "Tier One" units...and all that kind of stuff. I figured the conversation might get a little awkward, but to my great surprise the Brit basically laid it out in quite simple terms, and I do not think he was "Just trying to be nice". He said that it was his opinion at least, that the American military was (by and large) the best trained and most lethal "War Machine" of all time. his reasoning was that it came down to money. His view was that we have the best training, and equipment money can buy...and that makes an ENORMOUS difference. Also, he mentioned that at this stage in the game, we have now (this discussion took place in 2014) have had huge amounts of war experience, and most importantly we had known defeat. I had not thought about that last comment. He said that although we probably won 85-90% of the battles we fought in Vietnam, and killed 400-500 thousand NVA and Vetcong...we still did actually (and sadly) lose that war. He mentioned that no military can be the best until they have lost at least "ONE" war. For the Brits that would (ironically) be the American Revolutionary War. he also mentioned that the war in Northern Ireland was not a loss but it wasn't exactly a win either. And the first war in Ireland against the Original IRA could actually be considered to be a loss at least partially. He then said that in all candor WWII would have Probably ended in eventual defeat for Britain if America had not joined the war.

So he ended his part of this conversation with the basic view that in historic terms the American military (at least in his view) took top honors in terms of "Histories most powerful and lethal war machine".

Now I figure that an SAS Captain sitting around shooting the **** with a couple Americans (both Spec Ops guys or not)...is going to say what he feels, and not just tell us what we want to hear, Brits don't do that, at least from my experience with them. So This is a long post, I apologize, like I said I am not great at posting, I don't do it enough...but I try my best it keeps me off the streets...Video games help too if you guys are into them I recommend the newest "God Of War" game...freaking outstanding on the PS4 PRO especially if you plunked down a bunch of change for some big 65 inch 4K TV that you don't need, but since when did that ever matter to us guys

Ok. I am done. I hope my fellow vets (of ALL branches)...despite all that Army-Navy-Air force rivalry crap...the way I see it I could give a **** what branch you are in If we needed help from the Rangers, they showed up with smiles on their faces. If we needed Taliban position bombed to pieces Air Force guys flew by and bombed the **** out of them, and I don't remember them complaining one bit. So to ALL by brothers and sisters in ALL the armed forces active, non active from whatever war. Take care, and god bless

PS. God Bless and God Rest John McCain and George Bush Sr.

 

[Desert Storm]

BTW did you guys see how strong we are??!!!

I mean, come on!!
Not to be trifled with :2wave:

 

[ALTOY459]

Although not likely who many will select, but I am going with the mujahideen and the successors, the Taliban, in Afghanistan. This rag tag (and largely unpaid, volunteer) force has defeated (or at least was not defeated by) the military forces of superpower nations for (4?) decades with some using assistance from NATO allied forces as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/apr/28/afghanistan-mujahideen-taliban

For the US forces it would have to be during the Vietnam campaign - it was said that we won each and every battle by large (sometimes huge?) body count margins during that affair.

LOL yeah they TOTALLY have never received any funding from any foreign entities.

 

[ttwtt78640]

LOL yeah they TOTALLY have never received any funding from any foreign entities.

Don't even try to compare the funding levels of the Afghan mountain hicks to those of the US (and allied) forces. If the most powerful and expensive military on the planet can't get beyond a stalemate in over 17 years of 'war' then it is not due to force funding issues.

 

[braindrain]

Don't even try to compare the funding levels of the Afghan mountain hicks to those of the US (and allied) forces. If the most powerful and expensive military on the planet can't get beyond a stalemate in over 17 years of 'war' then it is not due to force funding issues.

To pretend the Taliban is any type of decent fighting force is just silly. They get their ass kicked virtually every single time they actually put up a fight. The surviving leadership have to run and hide out in Pakistan. The reason that their is a stalemate over there is because the US is fighting a culture and an idea. Defeating and idea and changing a culture is a very long and difficult task. Something the majority of the US military is not only not good at but doesn't really understand.

Pretending it has any real baring on the capability of the Taliban is just nonsense.

 

[ttwtt78640]

To pretend the Taliban is any type of decent fighting force is just silly. They get their ass kicked virtually every single time they actually put up a fight. The surviving leadership have to run and hide out in Pakistan. The reason that their is a stalemate over there is because the US is fighting a culture and an idea. Defeating and idea and changing a culture is a very long and difficult task. Something the majority of the US military is not only not good at but doesn't really understand.

Pretending it has any real baring on the capability of the Taliban is just nonsense.

My post was in response to an assertion that the Taliban 'army' was well (better?) funded. What, exactly, is the US 'battle plan' for defeating an idea and changing a culture?

 

[WillyPete]

Easily the Mongolians for me.

If the khan hadn't died, causing them all to return home to elect a new one, they would have totally dominated Europe. They were way ahead of the competition in both numbers and quality, and Europe was a fractured politically, with no hope of cooperating against such a threat.

The book "What if?"" has a excellent section on how close it came to happening.

 

[braindrain]

My post was in response to an assertion that the Taliban 'army' was well (better?) funded. What, exactly, is the US 'battle plan' for defeating an idea and changing a culture?

Yes but your previous post was you picking the Mujahideen and their successor the Taliban as the greatest military of all time.

As to your second question honestly the plan is to get the local population to buy into the Afghanistan central government through programs like VSO but honestly this is most likely to little to late. And for the longest time the US didn't have a consistent plan as there was way to much emphasis on killing people and not on what it takes to conduct a successful UW campaign.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes but your previous post was you picking the Mujahideen and their successor the Taliban as the greatest military of all time.

As to your second question honestly the plan is to get the local population to buy into the Afghanistan central government through programs like VSO but honestly this is most likely to little to late. And for the longest time the US didn't have a consistent plan as there was way to much emphasis on killing people and not on what it takes to conduct a successful UW campaign.

Hmm... basically that means that we have had neither a viable battle plan nor an exit strategy.

 

[braindrain]

Hmm... basically that means that we have had neither a viable battle plan nor an exit strategy.

I wouldn't disagree with that. The vast majority of the US military not only doesn't understand COIN they have no real desire to do it. Fighting other armies or Targeting key leadership is where the majority of the focus lies for both the conventional military as well as the majority of SOF.

It's comparatively easy, well understood and most importantly briefs well to not only senior leadership, think secretary of Defense and president level, but also to the American public.
Afghanistan should never have been anything more then Special Forces on the ground working with locals backef by the AF and JSOC killing key leadership.

 

[Fledermaus]

Easily the Mongolians for me.

If the khan hadn't died, causing them all to return home to elect a new one, they would have totally dominated Europe. They were way ahead of the competition in both numbers and quality, and Europe was a fractured politically, with no hope of cooperating against such a threat.

The book "What if?"" has a excellent section on how close it came to happening.

" What if" is a great book... "What if 2" was a bit of a let down.