Great Leader of the Left

[Good4Nothin]

The idea that somehow getting rid of the evil rulers would solve many of our problems is typical of leftists. Not just Chomsky.

 

[Winston]

I don't know that "conservative intellectuals" were ever a thing, but they definitely aren't now. just reality denying, outrage-addicted morons who care more about what half a dozen purple-haired kids on a college campus do than what the President or members of Congress do.

I think one could definitely be an intellectual and speak about / argue for some conservative economic policies, but nothing that would even remotely resemble the modern Republican party.

Rand, Friedman, Hayek etc. There were definitely conservative intellectuals.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Rand, Friedman, Hayek etc. There were definitely conservative intellectuals.

Of course.

 

[nekrodev]

Rand, Friedman, Hayek etc. There were definitely conservative intellectuals.

I'm not familiar with "Hayek etc.", but I'd certainly argue over Rand and Friedman. They each had some okay ideas and beliefs, but the vast majority of what they pushed was awful and stupid - especially their economic ideas, which have been proven to be terrible over and over.

 

[Winston]

I'm not familiar with "Hayek etc.", but I'd certainly argue over Rand and Friedman. They each had some okay ideas and beliefs, but the vast majority of what they pushed was awful and stupid - especially their economic ideas, which have been proven to be terrible over and over.

I definitely agree with you, their body of work is highly discredited but, they were there in the conversation offering something more substantive than "liberals bad, freedom good"

 

[Winston]

I'm not familiar with "Hayek etc.", but I'd certainly argue over Rand and Friedman. They each had some okay ideas and beliefs, but the vast majority of what they pushed was awful and stupid - especially their economic ideas, which have been proven to be terrible over and over.

Hayek was an Austrian economist, prominent dissenting voice to Keynes. Contemporary of Keynes, considered the counterweight to left wing economics as proposed by Keynes.

 

[nekrodev]

I definitely agree with you, their body of work is highly discredited but, they were there in the conversation offering something more substantive than "liberals bad, freedom good"

Hayek was an Austrian economist, prominent dissenting voice to Keynes. Contemporary of Keynes, considered the counterweight to left wing economics as proposed by Keynes.

I'd like to think we hold the term "intellectual" in a bit higher regards, but I guess that's fine. I'll have to look more into Hayek, that seems interesting.

 

[TrueScotsman]

When you have intellectuals on the right like Ben Shapiro who basically pushes the same tired Republicanism spoken 3x faster, yes, I very much agree.

Most debates with Conservatives usually involve someone parroting or linking a Ben Shapiro video, literally just happened this week. FEMINISM IS DESTROYING MARRIAGE BEN SHAPIRO. Toxic to the country's discourse to have disingenuous hacks framing the discourse. I have largely given up talking policy with the other side for now. There is nothing to be gained from it, they simply have to be politically defeated at the ballot box where ever we can.

 

[Winston]

Most debates with Conservatives usually involve someone parroting or linking a Ben Shapiro video, literally just happened this week. FEMINISM IS DESTROYING MARRIAGE BEN SHAPIRO. Toxic to the country's discourse to have disingenuous hacks framing the discourse. I have largely given up talking policy with the other side for now. There is nothing to be gained from it, they simply have to be politically defeated at the ballot box where ever we can.

Shapiro's PR took a pretty big hit recently. Did you see the BBC interview gone round the world? The one where Mr. Logic and Facts showed he is the biggest feels-based debater on the planet.

 

[TrueScotsman]

Hayek was an Austrian economist, prominent dissenting voice to Keynes. Contemporary of Keynes, considered the counterweight to left wing economics as proposed by Keynes.

Friedman is responsible to for terrible inequalities and practices by businesses that we see today, he should be dismissed.
Hayek is also employed by these free market fundamentalists who rebel against the Soviet Union, and I think as a result he too closely flirted with fascism and thought they saved Western Civilization.
I would say the more foundational thinkers are the most prominent in the Conservative movement, Edmund Burke, John Locke, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill and David Hume. I think one should be aware of the rest of the Conservative tradition, but I don't find any value in it beyond those kind of foundational thinkers who have their own problems of course.

 

[Winston]

Friedman is responsible to for terrible inequalities and practices by businesses that we see today, he should be dismissed.
Hayek is also employed by these free market fundamentalists who rebel against the Soviet Union, and I think as a result he too closely flirted with fascism and thought they saved Western Civilization.
I would say the more foundational thinkers are the most prominent in the Conservative movement, Edmund Burke, John Locke, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill and David Hume. I think one should be aware of the rest of the Conservative tradition, but I don't find any value in it beyond those kind of foundational thinkers who have their own problems of course.

Edmund Burke was the one I was trying to think of.. thank you.

 

[TrueScotsman]

Shapiro's PR took a pretty big hit recently. Did you see the BBC interview gone round the world? The one where Mr. Logic and Facts showed he is the biggest feels-based debater on the planet.

I watched the train wreck, I think the interviewer should have been warned how much these Conservative pundits love to victimize themselves whenever possible. Though I guess if they knew, then it worked spectacularly, except I would prefer to have someone on actually dismantle his ideas rather than him own himself because of his hackery. I enjoyed it nonetheless.

 

[TrueScotsman]

Edmund Burke was the one I was trying to think of.. thank you.

I disagree with him tremendously, but I feel like he is an incredibly important voice in Conservatism that reverberates down to the present even.

 

[Winston]

I disagree with him tremendously, but I feel like he is an incredibly important voice in Conservatism that reverberates down to the present even.

Absolutely.

 

[TrueScotsman]

Well that's clever. You just won the entire argument. I admit, Chomsky is great.

Was I arguing that Chomsky is great? See how lost you are? I was demonstrating that you haven't learned enough about the man to criticize him. FYI, I pretty strongly disagree with Chomsky on many things.

 

[Grandpappy]

I thought you guys considered Stephen Colbert and Che Guevara as “great leaders”? WTF, you mean you don’t?

 

[sangha]

Chomsky's contributions to linguistics have some limited use, but he caused as much or more harm to the field. He forcefully kept down all other schools of linguistics.

And if it's true that he doesn't have many followers, I'm glad to hear that. But that has not been my impression. I very often see him quoted by leftists.

Lolwut?

Please describe the force he used on schools of linguistics

 

[Good4Nothin]

Was I arguing that Chomsky is great? See how lost you are? I was demonstrating that you haven't learned enough about the man to criticize him. FYI, I pretty strongly disagree with Chomsky on many things.

I learned about him by reading most of what he actually wrote about politics. I know that he is good at criticizing, but has no better ideas. I know that he thinks we don't need governments.

You have not said anything to explain why you don't agree with what I said. Just some stupid insult, which I have forgotten.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Lolwut?

Please describe the force he used on schools of linguistics

His forceful personality. He's another one of those guys who became famous more because of his personality than because of his ideas. He did come along at the right time in cognitive science, when computers were influencing psychology. Other schools of linguistics were shoved aside, very unfortunately because some of them made a lot of sense.

 

[bongsaway]

Never read him, so does that make me not a democrat or I need to read him so I can have no thoughts or opinions of my own? So much for your great leader of the left theory in my opinion.

Why you guys so hard trying to insist the left are wind up automatons makes me laugh. The left just put into the house the most diverse freshman class ever and they don't all seem to have the same thoughts. Maybe you should try stepping out of the herd mentality?

 

[nekrodev]

Never read him, so does that make me not a democrat or I need to read him so I can have no thoughts or opinions of my own? So much for your great leader of the left theory in my opinion.

Why you guys so hard trying to insist the left are wind up automatons makes me laugh. The left just put into the house the most diverse freshman class ever and they don't all seem to have the same thoughts. Maybe you should try stepping out of the herd mentality?

He's not a Democrat. Chomsky is more or less an anarchist. His biggest points on politics (from his book Manufacturing Consent) are about how the media works with the establishment in Washington to push false narratives to involve us in war and gloss over war crimes committed by our government and other governments with the backing of our dollar.

 

[bongsaway]

He's not a Democrat. Chomsky is more or less an anarchist. His biggest points on politics (from his book Manufacturing Consent) are about how the media works with the establishment in Washington to push false narratives to involve us in war and gloss over war crimes committed by our government and other governments with the backing of our dollar.

I can't say I disagree with that assessment. All one has to do is look up CIA coups and be prepared to read for quite a while.

 

[Good4Nothin]

I can't say I disagree with that assessment. All one has to do is look up CIA coups and be prepared to read for quite a while.

There are plenty of things that are wrong in this world, and the US has contributed plenty. We need critics who dig up the truth, and I said Chomsky is good at that. I don't know how much he exaggerates though.

But he, and the left in general, has a very naive and simplistic view of human nature. He thinks the problems are caused by the bad guys who are in charge.

Try being a world leader and see how easy it is to get along with everyone. But yeah, Chomsky doesn't think we need leaders. That's how naive he is.

 

[ataraxia]

I thought you guys considered Stephen Colbert and Che Guevara as “great leaders”? WTF, you mean you don’t?

Nah. That’s so 1990s. Now it’s Stalin and Genghis Khan.

 

[sangha]

His forceful personality. He's another one of those guys who became famous more because of his personality than because of his ideas. He did come along at the right time in cognitive science, when computers were influencing psychology. Other schools of linguistics were shoved aside, very unfortunately because some of them made a lot of sense.

Forceful personality? Chomsky?

What other schools of linguistics did he force out?