Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP Plan

[minnie616]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Only those that work and are in the lower pay scale are the ones without insurance welfare freeloaders have everything at taxpayer expense .

Do I have to clarify it for you?
Those of us who pay taxes always have helped pay healthcare for the uninsured either through Medicaid , another welfare healthcare program , or by paying higher healthcare premiums to help support the ERs that are not allowed to turn away the uninsured.

At least under the ACA ( Obamacare ) 20 million of previously 40 million who were uninsured did sign up for insurance.

 

[Socrates1]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Do I have to clarify it for you?
Those of us who pay taxes always have helped pay healthcare for the uninsured either through Medicaid , another welfare healthcare program , or by paying higher healthcare premiums to help support the ERs that are not allowed to turn away the uninsured.

At least under the ACA ( Obamacare ) 20 million of previously 40 million who were uninsured did sign up for insurance.

Thus another entitlement at taxpayer expense .

 

[jonny5]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Then why have insurance at all? Why stick it to the elderly or the young who may have a chronic health problem no fault of their own, especially when they need healthcare the most? It makes no logical sense to say good health insurance should only be provided for the healthy and those who are not should be thrown into a sick pool with substandard care and outlandish costs. That sounds like pretty bad healthcare policy to me.

Why instead stick it to a healthy person who certainly is not at fault for the elderly or young who have a chronic health problem?

First, parents are responsible for their childs health, not society. They made a choice to have a child and with that choice comes financial responsibility. Second, old age is a natural part of life. The elderly are not getting stuck to. They had an entire lifetime to save money to waste on trying to outrun death. Why should I have to waste my money as well to help them?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

...or, we pay yours, if you are the misfortune one that happens sick. You don't know what the future holds. All the responsible living in the world will not erase death or have you immune to cancer, Alzheimer's or an accident.

You don't seem to understand insurance. Its spreading risk to lower costs for those with an insured claim.

No insured pays the full cost of a claim regardless of the type of insurance. They pay the expected value of a claim (full cost of a claim multipled by the odds of the claim plus administrative costs). Usually insurance is a bet you hope you lose (you pay out, but never have to have a claim.... because, who wants to have a claim?)

Whoa. Who taught you that insurance was "spreading risk to lower costs for those with an insured claim."????

That is not insurance. Insurance is a contract agreement between an individual and an insuring entity where the individual agree to pay a monthly or annual fee calculated at a cost/risk ratio for services with the insuring entity assuming 'risk' should incident or occasion arise that creates a need for greater services. Thats the whole problem with the concept of pre-existing conditions. There is no risk that the need for high cost services MAY arise..the need already exists. Its no different than demanding an insurance company take on new clients with wrecked vehicles and forcing the insurance company to pay for the damage previously incurred.

If there is going to be an insistence on coverage of pre-existing condition, that coverage should be provided under government funded insurance...medicare/medicaid. Its just ridiculous that people honestly believe they shoudl be able to expect an insurance company to take on new clients with preexisting conditions and NOT pay higher rates than others.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Whoa. Who taught you that insurance was "spreading risk to lower costs for those with an insured claim."????

That is not insurance. Insurance is a contract agreement between an individual and an insuring entity where the individual agree to pay a monthly or annual fee calculated at a cost/risk ratio for services with the insuring entity assuming 'risk' should incident or occasion arise that creates a need for greater services. Thats the whole problem with the concept of pre-existing conditions. There is no risk that the need for high cost services MAY arise..the need already exists. Its no different than demanding an insurance company take on new clients with wrecked vehicles and forcing the insurance company to pay for the damage previously incurred.

If there is going to be an insistence on coverage of pre-existing condition, that coverage should be provided under government funded insurance...medicare/medicaid. Its just ridiculous that people honestly believe they shoudl be able to expect an insurance company to take on new clients with preexisting conditions and NOT pay higher rates than others.

You mean the same Medicaid that they are permanently capping and gutting by 25%--the program where already a massive subsection of those with pre-existing conditions are covered, including 42% of all disabled kids in the country? That Medicaid? Or perhaps you mean Medicaid Expansion? Wait, no, that goes away.

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[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

You mean the same Medicaid that they are permanently capping and gutting by 25%--the program where already a massive subsection of those with pre-existing conditions are covered, including 42% of all disabled kids in the country? That Medicaid? Or perhaps you mean Medicaid Expansion? Wait, no, that goes away.

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Just curious if you have ever seen me championing the recently proposed GOP plan........

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Just curious if you have ever seen me championing the recently proposed GOP plan........

It doesnt quite matter. If the proposed changes are to pass, and they are increasingly likely given widespread buy-in from Senate Republicans, that's the world you have to operate under.

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[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

It doesnt quite matter. If the proposed changes are to pass, and they are increasingly likely given widespread buy-in from Senate Republicans, that's the world you have to operate under.

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And 'pre-existing conditions' will continue to destroy all semblance of affordable care for all. As will the ridiculous notion that an 80 year old man needs to carry a policy covering pre-natal care.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

And 'pre-existing conditions' will continue to destroy all semblance of affordable care for all. As will the ridiculous notion that an 80 year old man needs to carry a policy covering pre-natal care.

So your response is throwing your hands up in the air?

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[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

So your response is throwing your hands up in the air?

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How odd. I have given my response. My response is that for pre-existing conditions to be covered, the only logical solution is to put them under a government funded health care option. That or force insurers to cover them but allow insurers to charge out the ass for coverage. Because forcing an 'insurance' company to take on a new client with a pre-existing condition is not in any way, shape, or form 'insurance.

Surely you know that...right?

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

How odd. I have given my response. My response is that for pre-existing conditions to be covered, the only logical solution is to put them under a government funded health care option. That or force insurers to cover them but allow insurers to charge out the ass for coverage. Because forcing an 'insurance' company to take on a new client with a pre-existing condition is not in any way, shape, or form 'insurance.

Surely you know that...right?

So, again, that's a hands up in the air response. Your proposed solution was to push them into government insurance programs, but those programs are being capped and dramatically cut, and will be significantly reduced in their scope. Public and private infrastructure for individuals with pre-existing conditions will be decimated as a result of Medicaid cuts. So obviously, that's not really a solution, but it sounded good to you 40 minutes ago when you didn't know any better. Then on the other hand, you're saying charge them out of the private system..excuse me "charge out the ass for coverage."

So, really, when you think about it, there is nothing there for them but dramatically worse healthcare and incredibly depreciating coverage on either the public or private sector. But that's fine for you.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

So, again, that's a hands up in the air response. Your proposed solution was to push them into government insurance programs, but those programs are being capped and dramatically cut, and will be significantly reduced in their scope. Public and private infrastructure for individuals with pre-existing conditions will be decimated as a result of Medicaid cuts. So obviously, that's not really a solution, but it sounded good to you 40 minutes ago when you didn't know any better. Then on the other hand, you're saying charge them out of the private system..excuse me "charge out the ass for coverage."

So, really, when you think about it, there is nothing there for them but dramatically worse healthcare and incredibly depreciating coverage on either the public or private sector. But that's fine for you.

My solution obviously woud be to change the government programs to fit those with pre-existing conditions.

Not sure what you are on about. Apparently you have embraced the notion that the GOP plan is going to be passed so **** it. OK...but thats not what this discussion is about. I mean if we are going to be relegated to This is the plan the house GOP has passed. Like it/Hate it. Check here. Move on. well...that makes for some lousy discussion of opinion.

The reality is that the GOP healthcare plan passed by the house is going nowhere. We dont know what a final replacement plan will look like. Personally...I think they were stupid for promising to repeal and replace the ACA. But thats just me.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

My solution obviously woud be to change the government programs to fit those with poreexisting conditions.

Not sure what you are on about. Apparently you have embraced the notion that the GOP plan is going to be passed so **** it. OK...but thats not what this discussion is about. I mean if we are going to be relegated to This is the plan the house GOP has passed. Like it/Hate it. Check here. Move on.

The reality is that the GOP healthcare plan passed by the house is going nowhere. We dont know what a final replacement plan will look like. Personally...I think they were stupid for promising to repeal and replace the ACA. But thats just me.

There are multiple GOP plans in the Senate, including a more "moderate" track. However, even that moderate track has been proclaiming that Medicaid caps and block grants are looking attractive to them. The writing is on the wall. Last week, the best I could do was get my Congressman to dig into the topic of Medicaid Waivers, in hope that he will spread the message and they won't preclude one of the biggest infrastructure plans states have or are wanting to pursue.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

There are multiple GOP plans in the Senate, including a more "moderate" track. However, even that moderate track has been proclaiming that Medicaid caps and block grants are looking attractive to them. The writing is on the wall.

And? Does that mean we should not be discussing here what we think should be a better alternative or are we really relegated to "I like this!" or "I hate this!"?

I dont like the ACA. I think it was a fraud, perpetrated fraudulently, and I believe it was built to fail. Thats my opinion. I believe the ACA was supposed to be so bad that when Hillary won the WH in 2016, the left would announce that for the good of the country they would move to phase 2...a single payer program. The GOP would have put up token resistance, and at the end of the day...it would have been passed anyway. I think that is still coming...2020 or 2024, but I think our slide to socialism is inevitable. So really...all of this may just be posturing by the GOP. The senate knows that a repeal an outright repeal of the ACA will hurt the GOP in the 2018 elections. So at the end of the day...I doubt much changes...if anything, to be honest. It will likely be repackaged and sold by both parties as a win.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

And? Does that mean we should not be discussing here what we think should be a better alternative or are we really relegated to "I like this!" or "I hate this!"?

But your "solutions" can't run counter to policy, program, and Constitutional trajectory.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Thus another entitlement at taxpayer expense .

Before the ACA there was a hidden tax. The average U.S. family and their employers paid an extra $1,017 in health care premiums to compensate for the uninsured, according to a study by an advocacy group for health care consumers.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

But your "solutions" can't run counter to policy, program, and Constitutional trajectory.

Screw that. My personal opinions on solutions can be anything I choose to offer. I dont agree with either party and their wreckless acts. Would you relegate your own personal opinions to whatever the majority party dujoir dictates? Why?

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Screw that. My personal opinions on solutions can be anything I choose to offer. I dont agree with either party and their wreckless acts. Would you relegate your own personal opinions to whatever the majority party dujoir dictates? Why?

When it comes to arguing about policy changes, yup, I do just that. If the system works a certain way and I want to reform it, I pay attention to the other levers.

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[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Why instead stick it to a healthy person who certainly is not at fault for the elderly or young who have a chronic health problem?

First, parents are responsible for their childs health, not society. They made a choice to have a child and with that choice comes financial responsibility. Second, old age is a natural part of life. The elderly are not getting stuck to. They had an entire lifetime to save money to waste on trying to outrun death. Why should I have to waste my money as well to help them?

Think of it as an investment for yourself as you age.

 

[jonny5]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Think of it as an investment for yourself as you age.

What if I dont live that long? Id rather enjoy my earnings now. Shouldnt I have a choice?

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

What if I dont live that long?

You just might have had a pre-existing condition!


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[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

What if I dont live that long? Id rather enjoy my earnings now. Shouldnt I have a choice?

The choice argument is rather ridiculous when discussing ones future health since no one knows if they will need it or not. Buying sh*t and having health care are really two different things but I do see where your priorities lie.

 

[Socrates1]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

Before the ACA there was a hidden tax. The average U.S. family and their employers paid an extra $1,017 in health care premiums to compensate for the uninsured, according to a study by an advocacy group for health care consumers.

That happens to be $ 1017 too much ! I wonder why so many hospitals in good old liberal California have went belly up in the last 5 years ?????? Can you say ILLEGALS ???

 

[jonny5]

Re: Got a Pre-exsisting Condition Your Premium Could Rise Sharply Under the New GOP

The choice argument is rather ridiculous when discussing ones future health since no one knows if they will need it or not. Buying sh*t and having health care are really two different things but I do see where your priorities lie.

My own personal happiness? Is that not your priority?