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GOP shits on vets yet again

Thanks for that researtch. There is not question Schumer is attempting to pull a fast one.
I haven't been following the path of this legislation over time, so some of you might know the answer to this simple question. Does anyone know why this 278 billion can't be entirely unlinked from the existing 400 billion and the 400 billion just remain exactly as it has existed, in the discretionary category? Is that, in essence, exactly what Toomey is looking for? Why isn't it a simple standalone bill unattached to any existing legislation or to any existing budget arrangements?
 
My understanding is the 400 billion has always existed on the discretionary side.
IF it is in "Discretionary" spending it HAS to be appropriated EVERY year. and IF Congress doesn't want to fund it they do NOT have to.
if it is on the Mandatory spending side it doesn't and that is where I can't understand why anybody would want something like this that benefits VETs that are sick because of what happened , what they had to do and are suffering from
It should be funded at a reasonable amount until every one of our VETS that have something like cancer or something that was caused buy something they had to do in the service are gone.
IT should be in MANDATORY SPENDING so Congress HAS to fund it and can NOT take that money and use it for one of their pork project
Have a nice day
 
To add to my comment 301, there has been and is a tremendous amount of money being spent (and being proposed to be spent) at a time this nation is suffering from crippling levels of inflation. Toomey addressed that in the video. It seems to me bipartisan support exists for helping veterans. So, why are budget gimmicks and changes being "used" to address this 278 billion bill. I see no reason whatsoever as to why an existing 400 billion needs to suddenly shift and leave this (I'd agree with Toomey) concerning hole on the discretionary side of the budget - for either party to be able to "play" with.
 
IF it is in "Discretionary" spending it HAS to be appropriated EVERY year. and IF Congress doesn't want to fund it they do NOT have to.
if it is on the Mandatory spending side it doesn't and that is where I can't understand why anybody would want something like this that benefits VETs that are sick because of what happened , what they had to do and are suffering from
It should be funded at a reasonable amount until every one of our VETS that have something like cancer or something that was caused buy something they had to do in the service are gone.
IT should be in MANDATORY SPENDING so Congress HAS to fund it and can NOT take that money and use it for one of their pork project
Have a nice day
You are certainly entitled to have whatever feelings you have about that existing 400 billion, legislated long ago and placed on the discretionary side.
But the 278 billion bill being discussed is new legislation and it sounds like it will be on the mandatory side.
So, it sure seems to me the two should just be unlinked and the new bill should pass.
 
Either way it's a poison pill. The demorats should come up with a clean bill without the gimmicks.
That's exactly what I'm trying to understand. Why not a clean and standalone bill - tied to nothing else whatsoever? Then a vote in each chamber.
 
Confusion and TDS on your part. The republicans vote on and approve a platform every four years during the convention. If you were as politically knowledgeable as you seem to think you are, you would know that. That platform is what they claim the party represents. They just do not follow it. They just use it for window dressings during campaign seasons, the forget about it until the next elections. The secret to Trump's success in 2016 is that he campaigned on the principles laid out in that platform and convinced the base he would actually follow through on them. And he largely did. You can deny that until the sun goes supernova if you like, however it's the truth. The same applies to Reagan in the 1980 and 84 race and likely will with Desantis if he runs. The base is tired of the republican party operating as an establishment country club. It never was just about Trump. The movement that Trump tapped into actually began six years prior to the 2016 election.

You're aware that there was no platform in the 2020 GOP convention? I know they often don't stick to the platform, but having one is different than not having one at all.

"Rather than deal with these issues, rather than tell the American people and foreign governments what it stands for, it appears as though the Republican Party has codified that it is for whatever Donald Trump wants to do. As the Sun King might have said, “Le parti, c’est moi.”

 
You're aware that there was no platform in the 2020 GOP convention? I know they often don't stick to the platform, but having one is different than not having one at all.
the Mafia should never tell people what their plans are.
 
You're aware that there was no platform in the 2020 GOP convention? I know they often don't stick to the platform, but having one is different than not having one at all.
Incorrect.


Little or no changes to the existing platform does not translate to no platform.
"Rather than deal with these issues, rather than tell the American people and foreign governments what it stands for, it appears as though the Republican Party has codified that it is for whatever Donald Trump wants to do. As the Sun King might have said, “Le parti, c’est moi.”
TDS laced projection.
 
That's exactly what I'm trying to understand. Why not a clean and standalone bill - tied to nothing else whatsoever? Then a vote in each chamber.
Perceived political advantage driven by 'By Whatever Means Necessary' thinking.
 
Let's get into the details rather than the political narratives.
  • Concerns expressed by the Senators:
    Senate Republicans now say they want to be able to modify the bill, to fix a "budget gimmick'" they say could be exploited by Democrats.

  • More specifically:
    Spending fight
    Some members had objected because the federal government would pay for the bill’s $278.5 billion cost through mandatory rather than discretionary spending.

    Mandatory spending includes entitlement programs like Social Security, and is set in law and in effect indefinitely. Under discretionary spending, members of Congress would control the funding each year through the appropriations process.

    Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, said there had been an agreement between Tester and Moran for two amendment votes, but Democratic leaders have not scheduled those votes. Cornyn said the hope is for further negotiations to “eliminate some of the mandatory spending in the bill and the bill can pass.”

    Pennsylvania Republican Sen. Pat Toomey said in a brief interview after the vote that he wanted to address a “budget gimmick” in the bill that he believes would lead to an increase in spending unrelated to providing health care and benefits for veterans exposed to burn pits.

    Toomey said he had “no quarrel with” the legislation creating $278.5 billion in new spending during the next decade that would be classified as “mandatory.”

    Toomey’s opposition to the bill comes from a separate section of the package that “would authorize $400 billion over the next 10 years of existing spending … to be switched from discretionary to mandatory.”

    “And the reason for that, is to create a $40 billion annual hole in discretionary spending under the cap,” Toomey said. “And allow all kinds of spending on who knows what.”

  • Schumer voted no in the Senate:
    With 60 votes needed to advance, the vote was 55-42 with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer changing his vote from yes to no in order to allow a future vote on the legislation. Twenty-five Republicans who supported the previous version of the bill did not support this procedural vote.

  • This may yet be rescheduled for a vote in the Senate:
    It's not clear when the Senate vote will be rescheduled.

  • In June, it was widely supported, which included Republicans.
    A wide bipartisan majority approved the long-awaited bill by a vote of 84-14. It will now go to the House of Representatives, where House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has pledged to move quickly and send it to President Joe Biden's desk for his signature. The bill is an amended version of the Honoring Our PACT Act that passed the House earlier this year.
Given this additional detail, I think it more accurate to day that the GOP shit on the Democrat's budget gimmick rather than the veterans themselves, as cited above, there was no concerns about the purpose of the bill, but the budget gimmick the Dems introduced into it.

I'd rather have seen that issue addressed and resolved, rather than the bill be put in jeopardy, which may yet be resolved, as this vote in the Senate was only a procedural one. The bill isn't dead yet.
Nice try at gaslighting....shiiting on our vets isn't really shiiting on them, folks
 
They kill a bill to help vets having health issues due to exposure to agent orange and burn pits.


When will R voters hold their incumbents responsible for the actions they take, and not the positions they espouse?
 
I haven't been following the path of this legislation over time, so some of you might know the answer to this simple question. Does anyone know why this 278 billion can't be entirely unlinked from the existing 400 billion and the 400 billion just remain exactly as it has existed, in the discretionary category? Is that, in essence, exactly what Toomey is looking for? Why isn't it a simple standalone bill unattached to any existing legislation or to any existing budget arrangements?
No idea. Why didn't the Republican Senators who supported this bill in June raise those concerns then?
 
You are certainly entitled to have whatever feelings you have about that existing 400 billion, legislated long ago and placed on the discretionary side.
But the 278 billion bill being discussed is new legislation and it sounds like it will be on the mandatory side.
So, it sure seems to me the two should just be unlinked and the new bill should pass.
well that 400 Billion being on the discretionary side HAS to be appropriated and put in the budget EVERY year or it is gone and IF it is moved over to the Mandatory side then it is there and HAS to be spent on the VETS every year until they pass a law to change that.
So IF it is on the Discretionary it does NOT have to be funded at all , they can take that money and give it to some pork program some Senator has,
and as I said IF it is put on the Mandatory spending side of the budget it HAS to be funded and it HAS to be spent on this Vet program NOTHING ELSE
The ONLY reason I can think the Republicans want it put on the Discretionary side of the budget is so they don't HAVE to fund it and can take that money and put it into one of their pork projects
this is an IMPORTANT program for our VETS the American people should DEMAND it be put on the MANDATORY side of the Budget so we MAKE SURE it gets FUNDED and that money is ONLY spent on our VETS as it is intended to.
it is time to tell the REPUBLICANS to stop playing with the health of our suffering VETS and put it on the MANDATORY side of the Budget so that this program is funded and they can NOT spend that money someplace else.
Have a nice day
 
That's exactly what I'm trying to understand. Why not a clean and standalone bill - tied to nothing else whatsoever? Then a vote in each chamber.
Why was this bill with the exact same language acceptable to the GOP Senators then but not now?
 
This appears to be the problematic wording. It seems like a change to this would be pretty simple and everyone, including budget hawks like Toomey, could be satisfied.

"Creates the Cost of War Toxic Exposure Fund, a new mandatory fund in the Treasury for costs associated with benefits and health care for toxic exposed veterans, including administrative costs. This would shift spending that would be subject to appropriations under current law to direct spending under the new fund and would cover expenditures for programs in place under current law as well as new spending under this bill. Under the new fund, large portions of annual spending for VA would no longer be subject to the regular appropriations process, and most future legislation impacting VA spending would be subject to pay-go rules. The bill appropriates $500 million to the fund for fiscal year 2022."

 
Either way it's a poison pill. The demorats should come up with a clean bill without the gimmicks.
What " gimmicks"?
putting it on the Mandatory spending side of the Budget so it HAS to be funded every year till another law takes it off the books and the money can ONLY be spent for this program and NOT taken and spent some place else? that " Gimmick"?
Have a nice day
 
What " gimmicks"?
putting it on the Mandatory spending side of the Budget so it HAS to be funded every year till another law takes it off the books and the money can ONLY be spent for this program and NOT taken and spent some place else? that " Gimmick"?
Have a nice day
It is still a gimmick that allows congress to spend an extra 400 billiona year for items having nothing whatsover to do with veterans. Why not just a clean bill? I don't trust congress on either side not to spend it.
 
Confusion and TDS on your part. The republicans vote on and approve a platform every four years during the convention. If you were as politically knowledgeable as you seem to think you are, you would know that. That platform is what they claim the party represents.
They used to.

They didn't under Trump.

You are so badly misinformed (amazing that you didn't already know this).

Why Republicans didn’t write a platform for their convention this year​

The party’s true priority is supporting Donald Trump.

The GOP’s Non-Platform Represents the New Political Reality: Who You Are Against Matters More than What You Are For​




You are so amazingly misinformed that I can't believe you actually post opinions about things you know nothing about.
 
This appears to be the problematic wording. It seems like a change to this would be pretty simple and everyone, including budget hawks like Toomey, could be satisfied.

"Creates the Cost of War Toxic Exposure Fund, a new mandatory fund in the Treasury for costs associated with benefits and health care for toxic exposed veterans, including administrative costs. This would shift spending that would be subject to appropriations under current law to direct spending under the new fund and would cover expenditures for programs in place under current law as well as new spending under this bill. Under the new fund, large portions of annual spending for VA would no longer be subject to the regular appropriations process, and most future legislation impacting VA spending would be subject to pay-go rules. The bill appropriates $500 million to the fund for fiscal year 2022."

with the change in this bill from Discretionary spending to MANADTORY spending that is what the Dems were doing
they were making sure it got funded every year and could only be spent on this program
IF it is put on the Discretionary side like these Republicans want it has to be put into the appropriations EVERY year and voted on EVERY YEAR and they would NOT have to fund it and our VETS would be without this care
Have a nice day
 
Continuing on with more googling and reading:

"He also takes issue with the fiscal design of the bill, which he says will create new, effectively limitless entitlements. Most V.A. programs are covered by discretionary spending that has to be periodically reauthorized by Congress and is subject to annual budget caps.

That puts some outer bounds on the amount of money going out the door, even as Congress and the V.A. have made it easier for more people to lay claim to a broader set of benefits.

"To guarantee the money goes out of the door, they are shifting a huge chunk of the V.A. system from the subject-to-caps spending and moving it to the mandatory category so that it can grow on autopilot without anyone needing to worry about it," he tells Reason, an arrangement he says inappropriate in light of rising national debt and inflation."

It does seem like an especially odd time to elect to move money which does and has existed on the discretionary side - to the mandatory side. Here we are with the highest inflation in nearly half a century and we think right now is the time to elect to casually move existing spending into the autopilot (mandatory) category????

 
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Ypou did not honor that in 2016. Or were you not of the Russian Collusion Hoax crowd?
Do you really believe the American intelligence agencies were wrong and Putin was right, as Trump asserted?

Wow.

Brainwashed much?
There was no insurrection, and the GOP is not blocking aid to vets. The democrats are attempting to pull a fast one. If they come up with a clean bill, the GOP will support it.
Wrong. There was an insurrection which fortunately failed. But denying reality is what conservatives do.

The GOP acted spasmodically and self-destructively after having been played like a violin by Manchin and Schumer.
 
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